JSF: Drayson Bats For Britain
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Stuff the Yanks let them go it alone and pay all the costs, if they dont want to play ball with us we should take our bit of the ball back and lets be honest how many secrets have we given them over the years, oh let me think, the Jet Engine for one, so Mr Yank perhaps we should charge you for that. Just if we could hey, we might become a world power again lol.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Perhaps it might occur to them that if that's how the present government does business, the French are much better known for arranging backhanders than they are.... 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
That's fair. But if you're trying to sell me a car, refuse to sell me the workshop manual and insist it has to be serviced in your garage, at your rates, throughout it's life - don't be surprised if I shake hands, thank you for the tour, and walk over to the dealer on the other side of the street....
Not exactly a shining moment for us on this one.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Not accurate. Our payment as a tier one partner was, partly, to be able to bid to build components of the aircraft. That we have done with RR with engine parts etc. We have and keep those contracts regardless of whether we buy any ourselves.
To extend the analogy. If the man in the showroom builds gearboxes for BMW, he doesn't lose the contract if he goes across the road and buys a Ford....
To extend the analogy. If the man in the showroom builds gearboxes for BMW, he doesn't lose the contract if he goes across the road and buys a Ford....
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Will the Yanks be impressed/persuaded by a man who is in his current appointment thanks to a certain £1m donation to the Labour party
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Originally Posted by southside
How do you think G. Bush was elected? Why is it that to become President of the US, you MUST be a millionaire.
They don't spend their own money; now your point might be valid because they are rich and run in the same circles as the heavyweight donors, but they don't spend their own fortunes.
BTW, I doubt that Nixon was a millionaire prior to his presidency; I know Carter wasn't, nor Ford. Even the darling of Europe, Bill Clinton (you have GOT to be kidding!) was not a millionaire (at least not on the books) prior to his terms.
Now, please don't misconstrue my rant as being thrilled with most of our politicians, but be accurate when lobbing shells this way.
Oh, yeah, while I'm at it. What does it matter to you? We'll elect our set of buffoons, you take care of your own.
Last edited by brickhistory; 18th Mar 2006 at 13:41.
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Lord Drayson can lecture the Americans as much as he likes. If I were in their position, I'd be nervous about giving the UK access to all the technologies when the current UK Government is forging ever closer defence links with its EU partners, and therefore perhaps with other non-EU nations with which the Americans would not wish to do business. We are in no position to lecture them on this.
Regards
Ginseng
Regards
Ginseng
Originally Posted by southside
How do you think G. Bush was elected? Why is it that to become President of the US, you MUST be a millionaire.
The second term was won because half the country was fighting in EyeRack and had to vote for Dubya to ensure there was a flight home.
You never see a poor president or Prime Minister.(or MP for that matter)
Originally Posted by Ginseng
Lord Drayson can lecture the Americans as much as he likes. If I were in their position, I'd be nervous about giving the UK access to all the technologies when the current UK Government is forging ever closer defence links with its EU partners, and therefore perhaps with other non-EU nations with which the Americans would not wish to do business. We are in no position to lecture them on this.
Regards
Ginseng
Regards
Ginseng
if they really feel that they can't trust us then they shouldn't sell it to us, the current debacle just reeks of commercial interest - that i hope bites them in the backside when we cancel the proposed order.
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Originally Posted by ZH875
Surely he was elected because his brother in Florida cannot run a true and fair election, alledgedly, and the votes of the people were lost in the darkness of nepotism.
The second term was won because half the country was fighting in EyeRack and had to vote for Dubya to ensure there was a flight home.
You never see a poor president or Prime Minister.(or MP for that matter)
The second term was won because half the country was fighting in EyeRack and had to vote for Dubya to ensure there was a flight home.
You never see a poor president or Prime Minister.(or MP for that matter)
So much for that elected official, the Florida Secretary of State who oversees the FL election process. How crafty of the Governor to engineer the count. Oh, and the US Supreme Court's rulings while he was at it. And, for the hat trick, the re-election of the British PM. Damn, he's good!
Half of us are in Iraq? Wow, I have GOT to buy some more properties. Seems there must lots of places standing empty!
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Cokecan
You sum up the arguments for the US (from their perspective) not allowing us access very nicely, although I think it has less to do with them not trusting "us" than with them not trusting others to whom we may have treaty obligations to which they (the US) are not a party. There is no point in railing on this issue without trying to understand the US perspective.
Regards
Ginseng
Regards
Ginseng
trust...
i do understand their perspective: they are concerned that if we fully understand the systems in the JSF then that knowledge will seep into anglo-french systems and from there into franco-X systems that will then get through to china.
understandable, perfectly understandable.
what isn't perfectly understandable is they could possibly expect us to buy something that others have control over, bad enough if its a car, utterly unacceptable if its your nations defences.
understandable, perfectly understandable.
what isn't perfectly understandable is they could possibly expect us to buy something that others have control over, bad enough if its a car, utterly unacceptable if its your nations defences.
I think it's worth remembering that the US is not a monolith, even in the defense community. There are those who want a truly multilateral fighter, and others who want to defend what they see as the national crown jewels.
Christ that's scary stuff, WEBF.
Mad UKIPpers convinced that this is all "MoD spin" and that this is a non-issue, and that actually it's all just camouflaging the evil New Labour party's obsession with ditching the USA (our faithful allies) in favour of those evil socialist Europeans.....
I s'pose that Jock Stirrup's in league with Jaques Chirac.
Mad UKIPpers convinced that this is all "MoD spin" and that this is a non-issue, and that actually it's all just camouflaging the evil New Labour party's obsession with ditching the USA (our faithful allies) in favour of those evil socialist Europeans.....
I s'pose that Jock Stirrup's in league with Jaques Chirac.