Surviving Disasater BBC1 21/205 - Desert One
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Surviving Disasater BBC1 21/205 - Desert One
Did anyone else see this? The whole operation was surrounded by controversy (as a quick internet search will reveal), but in the end Operation Eagle Claw failed due to helicopter problems. Needed a minimum of six to get the Delta team to Tehran, three of the eight was u/s, hence the mission was cancelled as five were not enough.
Frightening, particularly when you consider the US was not exactly short of helicopters. Unlike the UK today.
And what about the USAF guy(s) who did a reece of the landing site and planted beacons. They must have had nerves of steel.
Why do I have the feelings that lessons of the Desert One affair are lost on today's political leaders?
Frightening, particularly when you consider the US was not exactly short of helicopters. Unlike the UK today.
And what about the USAF guy(s) who did a reece of the landing site and planted beacons. They must have had nerves of steel.
Why do I have the feelings that lessons of the Desert One affair are lost on today's political leaders?
Keep reading there sport and you will see that the lessons learned in Iran have provided us the capability that we have today....a quantum leap over the Desert One disaster.
Hidden away is the real truth....the helicopter pilots were briefed immediately prior to takeoff....they were told President Carter's re-election success hinged purely upon the successful accomplishment of the mission. That determined the outcome.
You wish to talk about courage....read about Dick Meadows. His entire career could make several novels.
Hidden away is the real truth....the helicopter pilots were briefed immediately prior to takeoff....they were told President Carter's re-election success hinged purely upon the successful accomplishment of the mission. That determined the outcome.
You wish to talk about courage....read about Dick Meadows. His entire career could make several novels.
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IF you read Delta Force by Charles Beckwith, it provides an excellent insight into this op. Granted some of the book is heavy to wade through but there are some genuinely interesting parts. It documents the birth and growth of Delta Force.
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I can't help thinking the world would be a better place if the operation had been successful ? Would have been cathartic to see the Iranian fanatics given a real good slapping down at the right time in history. Should have been properly thought out and resourced, but all, double underlined, all the team themselves had gonads like watermelons in my opinion.
Also saw amazing footage of the modfied C130 with RATO tear its wings off when the "brakes" were applied a tad early during testing ? Supposed to land on a sports ground in Central Tehran ? All quite vague but I'm an old fart now. Still impressed, despite the failure of a well intended op.
Also saw amazing footage of the modfied C130 with RATO tear its wings off when the "brakes" were applied a tad early during testing ? Supposed to land on a sports ground in Central Tehran ? All quite vague but I'm an old fart now. Still impressed, despite the failure of a well intended op.
Pap
I thought the programme was dire.
They'd clearly interviewed on-camera a number of those involved, but rather than let me watch these guys tell the story in their own words, I sat cringing through dramatic reconstructions, over-acting and a script written by someone that clearly has no military experience (nor, presumably, did they take advice from someone with military experience). And don't get me started on the cut-scenes of the "USS Nimitz" that showed a helicopter assault ship, or the painting of an an RAF Chinook on the wall of one set... Shoddy stuff.
It was a wasted opportunity, IMHO. Still, the story itself is cracking.
They'd clearly interviewed on-camera a number of those involved, but rather than let me watch these guys tell the story in their own words, I sat cringing through dramatic reconstructions, over-acting and a script written by someone that clearly has no military experience (nor, presumably, did they take advice from someone with military experience). And don't get me started on the cut-scenes of the "USS Nimitz" that showed a helicopter assault ship, or the painting of an an RAF Chinook on the wall of one set... Shoddy stuff.
It was a wasted opportunity, IMHO. Still, the story itself is cracking.
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Originally Posted by Stafford
Also saw amazing footage of the modfied C130 with RATO tear its wings off when the "brakes" were applied a tad early during testing ? Supposed to land on a sports ground in Central Tehran ? All quite vague but I'm an old fart now.
More info and pics here, and report of a candid talk by the test pilot here. There's video of the accident available somewhere on the Net, too.
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Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy
the painting of an an RAF Chinook on the wall of one set... Shoddy stuff.
Although the exploits of those who took part (in the Op, not the program!) are beyond doubt, I did feel the summary whereby advances in technology such as NVG and rotary AAR were put down solely to the outcome of Eagle Claw was a tad optimistic. One quote was that NVGs are now a 1/4 of the weight and four times more powerful, but it was 25 years ago so who's to say those advances wouldn't have been made anyway?
Originally Posted by Talking Radalt
Blimey! I'd best telll the boss we take down all the pictures and trophies WE'VE got of foreign Chinooks for fear of looking shoddy!
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Missed the programme, but I was based at Masirah with SOAF when the Delta C130s staged through. We weren't allowed any contact with them, and they decided to leave during the night with no lights or comms.
We watched from ATC as one C130 began his take off run with another backtracking up the runway! Somehow they avoided a collision which would have ended the rescue mission there and then.
In the morning we had a look at the runway, and the tyre marks leading off the hard surface and onto hard packed sand. We came to the conclusion that the backtracking C130 swung off the runway when it realised what was happening, and it's wing had lifted allowing the other C130s wing to pass underneath it.
I guess they used up all their luck during that incident.
ERB
We watched from ATC as one C130 began his take off run with another backtracking up the runway! Somehow they avoided a collision which would have ended the rescue mission there and then.
In the morning we had a look at the runway, and the tyre marks leading off the hard surface and onto hard packed sand. We came to the conclusion that the backtracking C130 swung off the runway when it realised what was happening, and it's wing had lifted allowing the other C130s wing to pass underneath it.
I guess they used up all their luck during that incident.
ERB
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Eagle Claw
Had a lecture in the States a couple of years ago by Lt Col Guidry who was involved with Eagle Claw. Fantastic story of really enormous cock-up. Ultra over cautious use of radio silence at Desert One was partly to blame for the collision. Turned out that after the event the US had to inform the Iranians about the landing - they weren't even aware it had happened. On the exit C 130s were operating at TOWs way over the Max warload figure of 175K lbs.
Still I guess the RAF Ks were as well, during the Falklands punch up. Apparently when they left Masirah from the far side of the airfield some of the International Airadio guys who were with ATC left two cases of cold beer beside the taxiway with a placard " From us all to you all for having the guts to try". Hence the title of the Book by Col Kyle, Airforce commander of the Operation. Great stuff, great read.
Still I guess the RAF Ks were as well, during the Falklands punch up. Apparently when they left Masirah from the far side of the airfield some of the International Airadio guys who were with ATC left two cases of cold beer beside the taxiway with a placard " From us all to you all for having the guts to try". Hence the title of the Book by Col Kyle, Airforce commander of the Operation. Great stuff, great read.
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It is my understanding that Task Force 160 was created as a result of Desert One. The US now has dedicated aircraft and aircrew for special operations missions. http://www.nightstalkers.com/history/1.html
Interested in this topic....then read this article.
http://rescueattempt.tripod.com/id13.html
Some insider information about the Iran raid and other events that relate to Spec Ops.
We must not forget the wonderful deeds done by our friends to the north and others....the Canadians especially deserve our gratitude for what they did for us.
Some insider information about the Iran raid and other events that relate to Spec Ops.
We must not forget the wonderful deeds done by our friends to the north and others....the Canadians especially deserve our gratitude for what they did for us.
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Google Earth
Would like to see Gogle Earth Placemarks of where it happened, or find the co-ordinates. Especially of Desert One.
Tried to find out more months ago but info on the exact loaction seems sparce (hardly suprising seeing as Desert one was surprisingly in the middle of the Desert!)
This is the best one I could find...
http://www.helis.com/featured/operations/desertone.jpg
Any clues?
Tried to find out more months ago but info on the exact loaction seems sparce (hardly suprising seeing as Desert one was surprisingly in the middle of the Desert!)
This is the best one I could find...
http://www.helis.com/featured/operations/desertone.jpg
Any clues?
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Originally Posted by Ewan Whosearmy
Erm. The dramatisation was set in late 1979. The RAF did not get its Chinooks until December 1980. I am assuming that you have Chinook stuff from operators that actually own the aircraft? Or do you have lots of artists' renditions of Chinooks in the markings of countries that don't yet have any of the aircraft? If the latter then suggest you follow own advice and remove them from display.
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At the risk of turning this into an international slanging match, and without wishing to show disrespect to anyone who lost their lives...
Anyone noticed how most US SOF operations in the public domain are 'glorious failures'
Mogadishu
Desert One
The Vietnam Prison Camp rescue where the camp was empty (Son Tay?)
The Maguez (sic) incident in the 70's.
How about a TV programme about THE MOST SUCCESSFUL SF MISSION in recent times-
The rescue of the Royal Irish from the West Side Boys in Sierra Leone by 22 SAS, SBS, FAA, RN, Para Reg and JSFAW.
With due respect to Tpr Brad Tinnion.
Anyone noticed how most US SOF operations in the public domain are 'glorious failures'
Mogadishu
Desert One
The Vietnam Prison Camp rescue where the camp was empty (Son Tay?)
The Maguez (sic) incident in the 70's.
How about a TV programme about THE MOST SUCCESSFUL SF MISSION in recent times-
The rescue of the Royal Irish from the West Side Boys in Sierra Leone by 22 SAS, SBS, FAA, RN, Para Reg and JSFAW.
With due respect to Tpr Brad Tinnion.
Gentleman Aviator
Originally Posted by Bof
some of the International Airadio guys who were with ATC left two cases of cold beer beside the taxiway with a placard " From us all to you all for having the guts to try". Hence the title of the Book by Col Kyle, Airforce commander of the Operation. Great stuff, great read.
.... at least that's what he told me recently ....
Sooms,
Errrr...hows about Afghanistan vis a vis the Taliban. SpecOps did okay in that one...freed an entire country...but I guess only because the SAS, SBS were involved.
Errrr...hows about Afghanistan vis a vis the Taliban. SpecOps did okay in that one...freed an entire country...but I guess only because the SAS, SBS were involved.
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Op Anaconda??
Bungled downed CH47 rescue...lost 2 MH47 plus how many SF plus 5 out of 6 AH64 ooa by the end of day one.
Rehearsals in broad daylight in full view of anyone in the mountains with a pair of bino's and a satphone?
I saw it myself.
Anyway, enough of pointless banter.. Lets concentrate on something we agree on..
Noticed how all the French Foreign Legion's famous celebrations are defeats-
Camerone
Dien Bien Phu
Bir Hakiem (sic) - ahh, actually that one was our fault. Sorry boys!!
Bungled downed CH47 rescue...lost 2 MH47 plus how many SF plus 5 out of 6 AH64 ooa by the end of day one.
Rehearsals in broad daylight in full view of anyone in the mountains with a pair of bino's and a satphone?
I saw it myself.
Anyway, enough of pointless banter.. Lets concentrate on something we agree on..
Noticed how all the French Foreign Legion's famous celebrations are defeats-
Camerone
Dien Bien Phu
Bir Hakiem (sic) - ahh, actually that one was our fault. Sorry boys!!
Originally Posted by Talking Radalt
And I bet you love pointing out that bit in Star Wars where Mark Hamill calls Carrie Fisher by her real name on screen, and the fact that the Sherman tanks seen crossing the Rhein in A Bridge Too Far are in fact Landrovers carrying fibreglass mock-ups? You can see the strings in Thunderbirds sometimes too
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
SASLess, I think the public domain idea is true. It is the cockups that hit the media. Had the Iranian Embassy seige not been shown live SF would have prefered it to remain invisible.
There will be many others where the mission was successful AND the media did not find out. By their very nature cockups tend to get publicity.
In the Falklands one incident was the storming of Top Malo House. Arg SF thought they were safe and did not put out sentries. They were wrong. The MOD made a short film of this SFvSF incident and it went on public release as a free short. Probably bundled with a Bond movie. Seemed to have disappeared without trace as it was neither contentious (Belgrano) or a cockup (Ajax Bay). The media love cockup and controversy.
Look at that US film about the female hero doc flying in to Kuwait in GW1. In its way it too was a cluster f*ck and hence good drama if cr*p movie.
There will be many others where the mission was successful AND the media did not find out. By their very nature cockups tend to get publicity.
In the Falklands one incident was the storming of Top Malo House. Arg SF thought they were safe and did not put out sentries. They were wrong. The MOD made a short film of this SFvSF incident and it went on public release as a free short. Probably bundled with a Bond movie. Seemed to have disappeared without trace as it was neither contentious (Belgrano) or a cockup (Ajax Bay). The media love cockup and controversy.
Look at that US film about the female hero doc flying in to Kuwait in GW1. In its way it too was a cluster f*ck and hence good drama if cr*p movie.