REASONS TO STAY IN
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REASONS TO STAY IN
I often create a mental list of reasons why I stay in the military and balance that against reasons why I would leave:
For:
I work with great people who work hard, play hard and in the main do so without real complaint, because they believe what they are being asked to do is right.
Against:
Poor leadership. Why is it our senior management cannot face up to the Treasury and explain to them that cutting the armed forces is wrong?
Do we really need an operation to go wrong, possibly with great loss of life before, anyone will listen.
Smart Acquisition is not working. It is sinking back into the bad old days, why, because the Whitehall Mandarins are making it more and more bureaucratic. Result….late, over budget, poor performing capabilities.
Wasted money……2 Aircraft Carriers…….Typhoon.
We have gone far too far in becoming PC correct.
To much change, for change sake.
Uncertainty, when I joined we had excellent Medical Care and terms and conditions which did not change every year or so.
Time to think, decisions being made by leadership now are clearly not thought through.
I could go on.
The writing has been on the wall for a long time and the whispers have now progressed to an audible murmur. We are over committed, with no sign of an exit strategy.
Please do not make this a thread, which slags off my personal issues. I would rather see what is keeping you in.
For:
I work with great people who work hard, play hard and in the main do so without real complaint, because they believe what they are being asked to do is right.
Against:
Poor leadership. Why is it our senior management cannot face up to the Treasury and explain to them that cutting the armed forces is wrong?
Do we really need an operation to go wrong, possibly with great loss of life before, anyone will listen.
Smart Acquisition is not working. It is sinking back into the bad old days, why, because the Whitehall Mandarins are making it more and more bureaucratic. Result….late, over budget, poor performing capabilities.
Wasted money……2 Aircraft Carriers…….Typhoon.
We have gone far too far in becoming PC correct.
To much change, for change sake.
Uncertainty, when I joined we had excellent Medical Care and terms and conditions which did not change every year or so.
Time to think, decisions being made by leadership now are clearly not thought through.
I could go on.
The writing has been on the wall for a long time and the whispers have now progressed to an audible murmur. We are over committed, with no sign of an exit strategy.
Please do not make this a thread, which slags off my personal issues. I would rather see what is keeping you in.
I'm not in and never have been. I will put this in civvy street terms, but you should be able to easily see the analogies. From my civvy experience in broad terms I would say that if you have to think about why you should stay, you're probably better off out of your curent position, as you've already passed the i's it time to leave yet?' Only you will know if a different position in your employer is likely to give satisfaction. If you're upset with the direction the managers are taking you in, then again an internal transfer is unlikely to work/be satisfying and again, look for the white sign with the green writing starting with E
Last edited by jumpseater; 15th Feb 2006 at 00:08.
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For me, every now and then I fly a trip which just puts a huge grin on my face. A tough tasking perhaps, which through a can do attitude, we (the squadron) make happen, as planned. That takes practice and a fair bit of time and effort. If we recognise when things have gone well, and celebrate it, we don't end up in a spiral of doom.
Fair play, it isn't what it used to be in the forces, but I can't think of a job which would offer such variety. Who wants to join the rat race? Not me, I'd rather be nightflying in a COMAO or sat over the Gulf than sat on the train (or in my car) at the same time every day, looking at the same people, going to the same office, knowing that I'll be doing the same thing today than I did yesterday. I've done that for a course over 6 months, and it depressed the hellout of me, especially when the guys flew over the top of the train station while I waited for the same train.
I've been VERY fortunate though and ended up doing pretty much exactly what I wanted to do in the RAF so far. I guess this offsets the crap!
GM
ps, even though they've been a long time coming, we need the new kit to do our job, why not be optimistic about the projects and recognise the improved capability they will deliver?
Fair play, it isn't what it used to be in the forces, but I can't think of a job which would offer such variety. Who wants to join the rat race? Not me, I'd rather be nightflying in a COMAO or sat over the Gulf than sat on the train (or in my car) at the same time every day, looking at the same people, going to the same office, knowing that I'll be doing the same thing today than I did yesterday. I've done that for a course over 6 months, and it depressed the hellout of me, especially when the guys flew over the top of the train station while I waited for the same train.
I've been VERY fortunate though and ended up doing pretty much exactly what I wanted to do in the RAF so far. I guess this offsets the crap!
GM
ps, even though they've been a long time coming, we need the new kit to do our job, why not be optimistic about the projects and recognise the improved capability they will deliver?
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Reasons to stay in...
1) Applied for redundancy in 1995 - didn't get it
2) Applied for redundancy in 1996 - didn't get it
3) Appealed against my non-redundancy in 1996 - didn't get it
Got promoted!
4) Applied for redundancy Tr 1 in 2005 - didn't get it
5) Applied for redundancy Tr 2 in 2005 - didn't get it
Got promoted!
It's a dangerous game to play, but it worked for me.
Dare I apply for Tr 3?
No, not this time.
2) Applied for redundancy in 1996 - didn't get it
3) Appealed against my non-redundancy in 1996 - didn't get it
Got promoted!
4) Applied for redundancy Tr 1 in 2005 - didn't get it
5) Applied for redundancy Tr 2 in 2005 - didn't get it
Got promoted!
It's a dangerous game to play, but it worked for me.
Dare I apply for Tr 3?
No, not this time.
Not knowing what is going to happen tomorrow.
Yesterday was different from today.
Subsidised housing (few overheads).
Free medical and dental.
Like minded people at the tactical level.
Job Security.
If you go somewhere, you will be met & looked after.
Good social life.
When you are in the sand, infrastructure to look after the family.
Good pension.
Don't get me wrong, things could be a whole lot better and I share the contempt for the higher echelons BUT it is not all gloom and doom.
Yesterday was different from today.
Subsidised housing (few overheads).
Free medical and dental.
Like minded people at the tactical level.
Job Security.
If you go somewhere, you will be met & looked after.
Good social life.
When you are in the sand, infrastructure to look after the family.
Good pension.
Don't get me wrong, things could be a whole lot better and I share the contempt for the higher echelons BUT it is not all gloom and doom.
Fat Albert
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Reasons to stay in
Totally agree with the original post by Phoney Tony.
For me the reasons are:
1. Job satisfaction - There is still a challenge.
2. Every day is different.
3. The money isn't bad.
4. Job security for the next 10 years if I want it.
5. I work with some great people and get to travel a bit as well.
There are a couple of negatives at the moment:
1. I living in the mess during the week as I am based away from home. The facilities and the food are poor.
2. There is too much change going on all at once.
On the whole though I am still happy with my lot after almost 28 years.
For me the reasons are:
1. Job satisfaction - There is still a challenge.
2. Every day is different.
3. The money isn't bad.
4. Job security for the next 10 years if I want it.
5. I work with some great people and get to travel a bit as well.
There are a couple of negatives at the moment:
1. I living in the mess during the week as I am based away from home. The facilities and the food are poor.
2. There is too much change going on all at once.
On the whole though I am still happy with my lot after almost 28 years.
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really good reason's to stay:
Great job with lots of job satisfaction - Not
Good planning and man management - Not
Anticipation of up and coming events or tours - Not
Adventure training to look forward to - Not
Realistic and professional routine training - Not
Low flying - Not
Night flying - not when an RAF aircraft is anywhere in the LFA
Good pay...relatively speaking but in comparison to outside - Not
Support during times of need - Not
Good mess life - your having a ***ing laugh with with PAYD
Quality of life - only if have no life style to start with
Equality - only if your name is "Ting Tong"
Sound career advice and guidance - Not
good pension - once over now....Errrr.... NOT
Security - Not at present
A rest - not this decade
RESPOD increase for young poorly paid soldiers (other ranks) during high fuel prices.....Not
Family care or assistance - Not anymore (NHS for them I'm afraid)
Respect from the hierarchy - I give up now
Yeh... I'm happy with my lot too! NOT
Oh and yes I'm also leaving to join the Civi airlines, thanks.
PP
Great job with lots of job satisfaction - Not
Good planning and man management - Not
Anticipation of up and coming events or tours - Not
Adventure training to look forward to - Not
Realistic and professional routine training - Not
Low flying - Not
Night flying - not when an RAF aircraft is anywhere in the LFA
Good pay...relatively speaking but in comparison to outside - Not
Support during times of need - Not
Good mess life - your having a ***ing laugh with with PAYD
Quality of life - only if have no life style to start with
Equality - only if your name is "Ting Tong"
Sound career advice and guidance - Not
good pension - once over now....Errrr.... NOT
Security - Not at present
A rest - not this decade
RESPOD increase for young poorly paid soldiers (other ranks) during high fuel prices.....Not
Family care or assistance - Not anymore (NHS for them I'm afraid)
Respect from the hierarchy - I give up now
Yeh... I'm happy with my lot too! NOT
Oh and yes I'm also leaving to join the Civi airlines, thanks.
PP
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My reasons:
1. Decent pay compared with friends who went through University;
2. Excellent accommodation and good food;
3. Cheap beer;
4. I live and work with some of my best friends;
5. If I leave, I'll be obliged to spend time with my parents
Everyone's reasons are personal. Why not make your own mind up without referring to strangers?
Whatever your decision, best of luck
1. Decent pay compared with friends who went through University;
2. Excellent accommodation and good food;
3. Cheap beer;
4. I live and work with some of my best friends;
5. If I leave, I'll be obliged to spend time with my parents
Everyone's reasons are personal. Why not make your own mind up without referring to strangers?
Whatever your decision, best of luck
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So why stay in then?
Ditto. If you that unhappy, leave.
Fantastic points guys
Perhaps it's escaped your attention that an awful lot of people ARE actually leaving.
Are you going to keep burying your head in the sand as to how bad things are getting nowadays, until the day there are only the two of you left, sat in the mess one day, daring each other to leave?
Even more people are staying, that may have escaped your notice. Even more people are joining. As has been said, personal choice. Unhappy, then leave. It is a very sad fact of life that neither you or I will be miised or mourned when we go. The very next day it will be like you/I/we never existed. Don't expect a bed of roses on the outside either.
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That's not the point I'm making Wyler.
I whole heartedly agree that nothing you or I have to say on this matter will change anything, and nobody would complain in the slightest if we left.
However, the fact is that more people are leaving now than in any other time recently. We are expected to put up with more and more cr4p, and have all the benefits we once enjoyed, being slowly and spitefully, in my opinion, taken away from us.
To say that "If you do not like it, leave" is a terrible and blinkered view on the situation, and is a phrase that the beancounters rely on spineless individuals to trot out, every time we are cut back that little bit further. They know full well that many people are not in a situation where they are fully able to just up and leave, as much as they would like to do so.
I personally joined with an intention to serve for as long as I possibly could, being very career minded, but now I start to find myself thinking that this RAF is really not my cup of tea anymore.
Are you personally content and happy with the way things have changed since you swore your allegience all those years ago?
Personally, I like many others on this forum, am finding that the list of Pro's is by far and away outnumbered by the list of Cons nowadays.
I whole heartedly agree that nothing you or I have to say on this matter will change anything, and nobody would complain in the slightest if we left.
However, the fact is that more people are leaving now than in any other time recently. We are expected to put up with more and more cr4p, and have all the benefits we once enjoyed, being slowly and spitefully, in my opinion, taken away from us.
To say that "If you do not like it, leave" is a terrible and blinkered view on the situation, and is a phrase that the beancounters rely on spineless individuals to trot out, every time we are cut back that little bit further. They know full well that many people are not in a situation where they are fully able to just up and leave, as much as they would like to do so.
I personally joined with an intention to serve for as long as I possibly could, being very career minded, but now I start to find myself thinking that this RAF is really not my cup of tea anymore.
Are you personally content and happy with the way things have changed since you swore your allegience all those years ago?
Personally, I like many others on this forum, am finding that the list of Pro's is by far and away outnumbered by the list of Cons nowadays.
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Phoney Tony,
I think you need to take a look at a lot of British Industry and remember just how many of your 'againsts' apply in the 'real' world. I know several friends with good degrees who are on their 3rd or 4th companies due to redundancy, down-sizing (producing ridiculous working hour expectations for senior management), re-organization (producing gutless leadership and wasting money) etc etc. As many others have said on various threads, the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side.
Not sure why you have Medical Care as an against. I've always found the Health and Dental care very good. Yes it it maybe not as good as it was, but again, take a look outside. Things are far from rosy out there.
Personally, while the RAF of today is a far different beast than the one I joined in the 80s, it is still a secure job with a very good pension scheme. Admittedly, in a lot of ways, what used to be the Fun-Factor has with been replaced with another Factor starting with F, and I have real problem with the flavour-of-the-month "Warfighter first, Specialist second" mantra. Overall though, for now I'll stick with it.
I think you need to take a look at a lot of British Industry and remember just how many of your 'againsts' apply in the 'real' world. I know several friends with good degrees who are on their 3rd or 4th companies due to redundancy, down-sizing (producing ridiculous working hour expectations for senior management), re-organization (producing gutless leadership and wasting money) etc etc. As many others have said on various threads, the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side.
Not sure why you have Medical Care as an against. I've always found the Health and Dental care very good. Yes it it maybe not as good as it was, but again, take a look outside. Things are far from rosy out there.
Personally, while the RAF of today is a far different beast than the one I joined in the 80s, it is still a secure job with a very good pension scheme. Admittedly, in a lot of ways, what used to be the Fun-Factor has with been replaced with another Factor starting with F, and I have real problem with the flavour-of-the-month "Warfighter first, Specialist second" mantra. Overall though, for now I'll stick with it.
Originally Posted by The Rocket
I personally joined with an intention to serve for as long as I possibly could, being very career minded, but now I start to find myself thinking that this RAF is really not my cup of tea anymore.
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To stay
1. i love flying
2. pay is good
3. BSA
4. Good social home and down route
5. Lots of goog guys(and gals) who u work alongside
To Go
1. I hate the bulls**t admin that goes with the job
2. Non existant Promotion (NCA)
3. Constant change, (dont even know what im doing tomorrow)
4. Being commanded by people only interested in their own careers and not for the good of the Sqn, (yes i do believe that Sqn ethos should exist)
5. The tail wagging the dog
6. Very poor quality of family life, (and the black mark against you if you put your familly first)
7. JPA
Lots to think about
1. i love flying
2. pay is good
3. BSA
4. Good social home and down route
5. Lots of goog guys(and gals) who u work alongside
To Go
1. I hate the bulls**t admin that goes with the job
2. Non existant Promotion (NCA)
3. Constant change, (dont even know what im doing tomorrow)
4. Being commanded by people only interested in their own careers and not for the good of the Sqn, (yes i do believe that Sqn ethos should exist)
5. The tail wagging the dog
6. Very poor quality of family life, (and the black mark against you if you put your familly first)
7. JPA
Lots to think about