Shipwreck Ark Royal
Suspicion breeds confidence
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Shipwreck Ark Royal
BBC1 is running a programme called Shipwreck Ark Royal on Sunday at 8pm. The first public pictures of the 1941 wreck. Should be good viewing!
Suspicion breeds confidence
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Glad to see you have great respect for airmen that flew off her decks interviewed in the programme. One of whom took part in the Bismarck attack.
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The greatest respect to anyone who flys from a moving football field or two. Their faith that they could recover, often in crummy conditions (and maybe battle damaged) is truly amazing. These gentlemen, both commisioned and non commisioned do truly deserve our respect. They certainly have mine.
Though they expended a great deal of explosive against them, I don't recall the Luftwaffe ever sending Luqa, Hal Far or Ta Kali to the bottom of the Med......
Suspicion breeds confidence
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Jacko, utter nonense - you should know better! A quick check of your history books should tell you that when all of the maltese airfields were sans aircraft, it was the the RN (+Ranger) that kept them going and replaced them when they were hors de combat. Shame on you! Yeah we get the joke
Should be a good programme!
And a welcome break from the BBC's obsession with sport.
Winter Olympics - now there's a good reason to paint the garage door!
And a welcome break from the BBC's obsession with sport.
Winter Olympics - now there's a good reason to paint the garage door!
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Navaleye,
I have just completed study on the Maltese campaign as part of an MA and the Maltese campaign's eventual success was down to many things, most definitely NOT just the RN. In order of precedence, I'd suggest:
1. Jointery. Remember that RAF Marylands did the pre-strike recce for the Taranto raid (something that the FAA always make a point of acknowledging at Taranto Night Dinners) and ASV equipped Wellingtons supported later RN and RAF ASuW ops. The RAF also conducted extensive intruder, bombing and some Special Ops against Sicily and the Italian mainland. As you say, the RN contributed by ensuring that supplies and many aircraft were delivered via the carriers. They also diverted Luftwaffe and Italian attention from Malta on several occasions via surface actions. The Army provided AAA and made a huge contribution by connecting all the airfields with miles of taxiways and producing blast pens, quite aside from the huge impact of the N African campaign.
2. Logistics: again a joint RAF/RN effort. The RN submarine Magic Carpet service and convoys aggressively defended by RAF fighters against huge odds.
3. Innovative support by the civilian/military authorities to ensure that the population (just) avoided starvation.
4. Churchill's intervention to ensure that we got the USS Wasp's support.
5. Ultra intelligence.
6. Finally, it was as much Britain winning the campaign as Hitler losing it by failing to invade the island against the advice of Kesselring and others, and when Malta was there for the taking in 1942. Ultimately, that cost him both Malta and N Africa.
So please do not suggest that the RN won Malta.
Regards,
MM
I have just completed study on the Maltese campaign as part of an MA and the Maltese campaign's eventual success was down to many things, most definitely NOT just the RN. In order of precedence, I'd suggest:
1. Jointery. Remember that RAF Marylands did the pre-strike recce for the Taranto raid (something that the FAA always make a point of acknowledging at Taranto Night Dinners) and ASV equipped Wellingtons supported later RN and RAF ASuW ops. The RAF also conducted extensive intruder, bombing and some Special Ops against Sicily and the Italian mainland. As you say, the RN contributed by ensuring that supplies and many aircraft were delivered via the carriers. They also diverted Luftwaffe and Italian attention from Malta on several occasions via surface actions. The Army provided AAA and made a huge contribution by connecting all the airfields with miles of taxiways and producing blast pens, quite aside from the huge impact of the N African campaign.
2. Logistics: again a joint RAF/RN effort. The RN submarine Magic Carpet service and convoys aggressively defended by RAF fighters against huge odds.
3. Innovative support by the civilian/military authorities to ensure that the population (just) avoided starvation.
4. Churchill's intervention to ensure that we got the USS Wasp's support.
5. Ultra intelligence.
6. Finally, it was as much Britain winning the campaign as Hitler losing it by failing to invade the island against the advice of Kesselring and others, and when Malta was there for the taking in 1942. Ultimately, that cost him both Malta and N Africa.
So please do not suggest that the RN won Malta.
Regards,
MM
Last edited by Magic Mushroom; 13th Feb 2006 at 09:20.
!
Thanks for the heads-up Navaleye, looks interesting.
Cut & pasted from the BBC website...
"Shipwreck Ark Royal
Sun 12 Feb, 8:00 pm - 9:00 pm 60mins
The Ark Royal was sunk by a German torpedo in WWII and lost for over 60 years. After three years of searching, the aircraft carrier has been found and veterans who served on her will be the first to see the wreck a kilometre below the surface of the Mediterranean. They recall the events that led to the Ark achieving legendary status - the deadly convoys to Malta, and the sinking of the Bismarck when planes from Ark Royal crippled the German battleship. [S]"
Cheers,
LXGB
Cut & pasted from the BBC website...
"Shipwreck Ark Royal
Sun 12 Feb, 8:00 pm - 9:00 pm 60mins
The Ark Royal was sunk by a German torpedo in WWII and lost for over 60 years. After three years of searching, the aircraft carrier has been found and veterans who served on her will be the first to see the wreck a kilometre below the surface of the Mediterranean. They recall the events that led to the Ark achieving legendary status - the deadly convoys to Malta, and the sinking of the Bismarck when planes from Ark Royal crippled the German battleship. [S]"
Cheers,
LXGB
But............would the convoys (eg Pedastal have got through without carriers, and their fighters?
Operation Pedestal: Saving Malta
OPERATION PEDESTAL
Operation Pedestal: Saving Malta
OPERATION PEDESTAL
What about the Citizens of Malta....seems they should at least get an Honorable Mention in that long list of British Daring Do!
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Wrathmonk,
Cheeky B*gger! Luckily it wasn't said Cdr who marked it and for the record, I got a good!!
WEBF,
GET A LIFE. The vast majority of convoys involved in the Malta convoys were not escorted by carriers. A lot happened before Pedestal.
MM
Cheeky B*gger! Luckily it wasn't said Cdr who marked it and for the record, I got a good!!
WEBF,
GET A LIFE. The vast majority of convoys involved in the Malta convoys were not escorted by carriers. A lot happened before Pedestal.
MM
Suspicion breeds confidence
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MM,
I didn't try imply that the RN won the battle and I agree with you that it was a real purple effort. The RN (+ Ranger) did keep the island supplied with fighters when there was no other means to do so. One of the most interesting personalities of the time was the British Govenor (General Dobbie). A member of the Plymouth Bretheren. About as far to the right of protestantism as you can get (so much so that they didn't believe in priests) and govenor of a Catholic island.
I didn't try imply that the RN won the battle and I agree with you that it was a real purple effort. The RN (+ Ranger) did keep the island supplied with fighters when there was no other means to do so. One of the most interesting personalities of the time was the British Govenor (General Dobbie). A member of the Plymouth Bretheren. About as far to the right of protestantism as you can get (so much so that they didn't believe in priests) and govenor of a Catholic island.
Last edited by Navaleye; 12th Feb 2006 at 12:02.