Specialist Pay - Flying, Para, Sub etc etc
Thread Starter
Specialist Pay - Flying, Para, Sub etc etc
Ladies and Gents of the RAF, RN, Army, RM
Just picked up a leaflet from JPA lying around in the Mess titled "Changes to Pay and Charges for Service Personnel in the JPA Era". Anyone else seen it? Anyone spot the small bombshell, perhaps a tactical nuke would be a better description, on Specialist Pay?
I quote:
"Common Rules for SP will rationalise your entitlement, if you have one. Your SP will be paid in one of 3 ways:
Continuous Career Basis - paid at full rate when you are in role, with a system of Reserve Bands at reducing rates (3 years at full rate, then one year at 75%, one year at 50% and a final year at 25% of full rates) when you are out of role."
So then, no flying, no flying pay! Is that a change to terms and conditions? What will your poster/appointer do if he offers you 2 gnd tours and you refuse on the basis it will hit you financially to accept a further gnd tour? Is this legal? Surely if you have served for XX years and recieved this pay for XX years then your expectations under the Eu Human Rights Act are that this pay forms a (not insignificant) element of your total pay and to reduce it in this way infringes your exectations/rights? Any thoughts?
Just picked up a leaflet from JPA lying around in the Mess titled "Changes to Pay and Charges for Service Personnel in the JPA Era". Anyone else seen it? Anyone spot the small bombshell, perhaps a tactical nuke would be a better description, on Specialist Pay?
I quote:
"Common Rules for SP will rationalise your entitlement, if you have one. Your SP will be paid in one of 3 ways:
Continuous Career Basis - paid at full rate when you are in role, with a system of Reserve Bands at reducing rates (3 years at full rate, then one year at 75%, one year at 50% and a final year at 25% of full rates) when you are out of role."
So then, no flying, no flying pay! Is that a change to terms and conditions? What will your poster/appointer do if he offers you 2 gnd tours and you refuse on the basis it will hit you financially to accept a further gnd tour? Is this legal? Surely if you have served for XX years and recieved this pay for XX years then your expectations under the Eu Human Rights Act are that this pay forms a (not insignificant) element of your total pay and to reduce it in this way infringes your exectations/rights? Any thoughts?
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Rumour Squash
Woah!
Allow me to rumour squash quickly! JPA has 4 ways of varying basic pay, as follows:
Position Based
Career Continuous
Competency Based
Task Based
Position based would be to get extra pay based on the location (London?).
Career Continuous is paid regardless of post, and this includes flying pay, Para Regt and Submarine.
Competency based is for a qualified individual in a post that uses the qualification, and I think that this is what is being referred to in the document you have quoted.
Task based is for specialist duties that are not post-specific, like AeroMed duties.
I do not believe that flying pay will be affected in the way that you think! Contact your Unit Change Team to make sure, but I have seen nothing to suggest that people will lose flying pay.
Hope this calms the waters!
Allow me to rumour squash quickly! JPA has 4 ways of varying basic pay, as follows:
Position Based
Career Continuous
Competency Based
Task Based
Position based would be to get extra pay based on the location (London?).
Career Continuous is paid regardless of post, and this includes flying pay, Para Regt and Submarine.
Competency based is for a qualified individual in a post that uses the qualification, and I think that this is what is being referred to in the document you have quoted.
Task based is for specialist duties that are not post-specific, like AeroMed duties.
I do not believe that flying pay will be affected in the way that you think! Contact your Unit Change Team to make sure, but I have seen nothing to suggest that people will lose flying pay.
Hope this calms the waters!
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"People I know are currently planning large scale exercises with no idea how rates/actuals will be administered.."
If its an exercise why aren't they staying in barracks or in f-ing tents. Any wonder that the Army, Navy and Marines think the RAF are a bunch of workshy clowns who think that staying in a decent hotel is more important than providing a quality service. If half the money spent on Club-class flights and hotac was spent on getting the aircraft configured properly for use on operations, the RAF would at least be able to hold its head high...
If its an exercise why aren't they staying in barracks or in f-ing tents. Any wonder that the Army, Navy and Marines think the RAF are a bunch of workshy clowns who think that staying in a decent hotel is more important than providing a quality service. If half the money spent on Club-class flights and hotac was spent on getting the aircraft configured properly for use on operations, the RAF would at least be able to hold its head high...
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I'd rather dig in or pitch a tent than be laughed outta town by the Matelots, Booties or Pongoes for failing to provide even a half-decent service because the 30 year old aircraft can't fly on ops because they do not have a DAS or are u/s. A disgrace, that's what the current AT fleet is....
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disgrace, that's what the current AT fleet is...
Remember Spud-u-like, it's better to build bridges than barriers.
15 all, your serve
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The treasury isn't to blame, its the fast jet mafia that have sold the AT fleet down the Swany and bought 200-odd Typhoon that won't get used in anger. I hear what you say about the crews, but surely you can understand how it looks to the pax; flying in clapped out aircraft with the crews staying 5* hotac. The grunts just assume that all the dosh is being spent on keeping RAF crews in luxury.
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Of course we can understand how it looks - blooming awful. But please don't vilify the boys and girls who try to make silk purses out of the proverbial. You're in an aircrew forum so should know better than the average punter that their hands are tied re. the a/c. Believe it or not they are consumate professionals and are doing their best with poor resources. And if the JSP says they get HOTAC, they get HOTAC. That's a decision way above our pay scales.
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I think the bottom line is that, during peacetime (and that's what I'm told this is), the civilian Air Navigation Order demands that aircrew are fit to fly whenever they mix with other general aviation. Whatever you might like to think, the airspace over London doesn't magically become any more forgiving to military crews just because they didn't manage to get any decent rest prior to their flight - even if it is from an operational theatre!
Having sat behind a couple of pilots and watched them struggle to stay awake at the end of a long, delayed, over-night flight home, I became acutely aware that maybe it might have been a good idea for them to get some decent sleep the previous day - rather than what passed for rest in a tent! I think their other passengers (and maybe even you) would have agreed too - had they seen what I did, and understood.
I believe that our AT crews are doing an excellent job with tired old equipment, under some pretty s****y conditions. Sorry, but the next time I fly with them, I'd really like to think that I was with a crew that had rested well beforehand - even if it did cost a few bob more.
I think the bottom line is that, during peacetime (and that's what I'm told this is), the civilian Air Navigation Order demands that aircrew are fit to fly whenever they mix with other general aviation. Whatever you might like to think, the airspace over London doesn't magically become any more forgiving to military crews just because they didn't manage to get any decent rest prior to their flight - even if it is from an operational theatre!
Having sat behind a couple of pilots and watched them struggle to stay awake at the end of a long, delayed, over-night flight home, I became acutely aware that maybe it might have been a good idea for them to get some decent sleep the previous day - rather than what passed for rest in a tent! I think their other passengers (and maybe even you) would have agreed too - had they seen what I did, and understood.
I believe that our AT crews are doing an excellent job with tired old equipment, under some pretty s****y conditions. Sorry, but the next time I fly with them, I'd really like to think that I was with a crew that had rested well beforehand - even if it did cost a few bob more.
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How about I wave my magic wand and make all the AT fleet servicable then? Ever wonder why they don't have the right DAS kit or they're u/s - maybe its because were underfunded and overused. I also can't believe that you're begrudging crews who are currently spending 4 months plus a year in Basrah and potentially more this year on detachment a couple of nights in a hotel. And for your info the only people that business class around the world are movers.
Thread Starter
Mead, and to get this topic back to its original AOR, (not another let's bash the AT fleet topic) you have not actually answered the question. My quote came from a tri-service leaflet so your
"and I think that this is what is being referred to"
does not really clarify the situation. I quote again (lifted straight from the leaflet)
"Continuous Career Basis - paid at full rate when you are in role, with a system of Reserve Bands at reducing rates (3 years at full rate, then one year at 75%, one year at 50% and a final year at 25% of full rates) when you are out of role."
This to me implies that if you are "out of role" you gradually lose your flying pay. If that is what happens already then I apologise; I am not aware that flying pay reduces at present unless you are medically down graded (or get promoted, but that is unlikely)!
"and I think that this is what is being referred to"
does not really clarify the situation. I quote again (lifted straight from the leaflet)
"Continuous Career Basis - paid at full rate when you are in role, with a system of Reserve Bands at reducing rates (3 years at full rate, then one year at 75%, one year at 50% and a final year at 25% of full rates) when you are out of role."
This to me implies that if you are "out of role" you gradually lose your flying pay. If that is what happens already then I apologise; I am not aware that flying pay reduces at present unless you are medically down graded (or get promoted, but that is unlikely)!