STRESS - Its the Flt Cdr's responsibility!
Thread Starter
STRESS - Its the Flt Cdr's responsibility!
Just had a lecture on stress; it included the whys and wherefore's and how to spot an individual who is suffering. Great! However, I also found out that I am responsible under HSE, for providing a risk assessment for the flt; and if I do not address an individual who is suffering from stress then I am liable.
I am pretty sure that the route cause of most anxiety and stress in the workplace is that everything is task driven. Therefore, in a climate of Lean, redundancies and where the shortages of manpower is ubiquitous, the chances of professional aviators and their support staff suffering from a stress related illness is pretty high.
Can someone explain why I am liable?
I am pretty sure that the route cause of most anxiety and stress in the workplace is that everything is task driven. Therefore, in a climate of Lean, redundancies and where the shortages of manpower is ubiquitous, the chances of professional aviators and their support staff suffering from a stress related illness is pretty high.
Can someone explain why I am liable?
Can someone explain why I am liable?
The solution is simple - ensure your erks are given plenty of time off to de-stress, and never mind that the job is not done, and finally, even as a boss, you will have a boss, complain you are suffering from stress and demand some more gardening leave.
No Stress.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: wilts
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Typical unsupportive stuff -
This guy has a real point here - we are constantly asked to do far more than we can do, and more often than not, told to do it ( from the top recently by Jock Stirrup saying we can cope, when we are far stretched already)
Being a Flt Cdr is a thankless job at the best of times, and everyone i have met so far has done his absolute best for the Sqn. Being made 'liable' for people claiming stress is just another way to offload the burden onto the individual, rather than the hierachy simply admitting we do too much already, with too few people.
This guy has a real point here - we are constantly asked to do far more than we can do, and more often than not, told to do it ( from the top recently by Jock Stirrup saying we can cope, when we are far stretched already)
Being a Flt Cdr is a thankless job at the best of times, and everyone i have met so far has done his absolute best for the Sqn. Being made 'liable' for people claiming stress is just another way to offload the burden onto the individual, rather than the hierachy simply admitting we do too much already, with too few people.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you cruise the RAF Web and look in some of the APs, you will find there is quite a lot of good stuff written about stress, mainly on operations, but even PJHQ has its say. I am not a doctrine Nazi, I merely discovered it by chance and thought it would be a good idea.
I thought stress was a medical condition and, if so, it can only be diagnosed by a Doctor. Therefore, if you are in any doubt, refer them to the Doc. Not sloping shoulders, a reasonable course of action.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marham
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It may be a medical condition Wyler however, should we not always seek to root out the cause of stress in the workplace and, wherever possible, reduce it.
An unusual drop in somebody's standard of work is often the first indicator that all is not well and I'd like to think that we all look for it in each other, especially the aircrew amongst us. Would any of you Navs out there climb into the back of a Tonka knowing that the pilot you were about to fly with (taxi out, go u/s and taxi back in for you F3 chappies! ) was not on form and under undue stress, nope.
I'm sure every branch and trade could come up with an equally valid scenario. It is everbodies responsibility to look for stress in others from JNCO up IMHO. Flt Cdrs simply have to use the available tools in order to deal with it.
B55
An unusual drop in somebody's standard of work is often the first indicator that all is not well and I'd like to think that we all look for it in each other, especially the aircrew amongst us. Would any of you Navs out there climb into the back of a Tonka knowing that the pilot you were about to fly with (taxi out, go u/s and taxi back in for you F3 chappies!
) was not on form and under undue stress, nope.I'm sure every branch and trade could come up with an equally valid scenario. It is everbodies responsibility to look for stress in others from JNCO up IMHO. Flt Cdrs simply have to use the available tools in order to deal with it.
B55
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marham
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wyler,
I totally appreciate your point, just wanted to point out that the cause is often right in front of us.
Might even book myself an appt at SMC tomorrow nah, B*ll*x to it, I'll just have another glass of wine!
I totally appreciate your point, just wanted to point out that the cause is often right in front of us.
Might even book myself an appt at SMC tomorrow nah, B*ll*x to it, I'll just have another glass of wine!
Registered User **
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is difficult to see how Flt Cdr's/Line Managers can deal with the sort of stresses that I see on a day to day basis. Working in the DLO (yep, someone has to) I see project teams that have been cut to the bone, and in many cases, beyond that. Some of these are massive programmes, the staff know that they are not doing all that should be done to support the procurement, not through choice, but simply because there are not enough hours in their day. Oh yes, and some chimp has seen fit to Lean the IPT. but they display the usual can-do attitude, unfortunately the system is almost broken. We seem to be scraping by and doing the bare minimum and this will undoubtedly cost us dearly in the long run. So what is a SO3/SO2 or even SO1 to do. The problems have been caused and exacerbated way above their payscales.
Safety_Helmut
Safety_Helmut
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Pub
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stress is a natural response to a challenge. The flight/fight mechanism (that would relieve prehistoric stress in homo sapiens and aircrew) is no longer aplicable to the modern world. The only thing that can relieve stress in the modern office-base world is ACTION.
That is why civil servants in low paid, menial jobs who have no power to do anything except put giant hurdles in the way of all military projects are all "under stress". yet they have some of the most simple, easy stress-free jobs of anyone. They relieve their 'stress' by taking sickies or lining their pockets by profiting from H&S initiatives that block true progress.
The moment ANYONE takes ACTION they immediately relieve their stess, Sitting and moaning about how it used to be (When I was on Wessex/Sea king Hunter, the V force, whatever, could be, if only etc etc etc does nothing but incapacitate which leads to "Stress"
Rant Over
WAKE UP, Smell the coffee OR get left behind get "STRESS" or just get on with your post/job life. Easy.
That is why civil servants in low paid, menial jobs who have no power to do anything except put giant hurdles in the way of all military projects are all "under stress". yet they have some of the most simple, easy stress-free jobs of anyone. They relieve their 'stress' by taking sickies or lining their pockets by profiting from H&S initiatives that block true progress.
The moment ANYONE takes ACTION they immediately relieve their stess, Sitting and moaning about how it used to be (When I was on Wessex/Sea king Hunter, the V force, whatever, could be, if only etc etc etc does nothing but incapacitate which leads to "Stress"
Rant Over
WAKE UP, Smell the coffee OR get left behind get "STRESS" or just get on with your post/job life. Easy.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Up North
Posts: 801
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was at a stress workshop before I left, which had a psychologist and a couple of medical officers and most of the Stn Execs. It was a useful exercise and everyone was concerned about the issue of stress, but I think the realisation dawned quickly on all present that they were sitting on top of a stress volcano! However, the aspiration was to develop a Stn stress management policy and not simply dump it on the Flt Cdrs/Sqn Cdrs.
“That is why civil servants in low paid, menial jobs who have no power to do anything except put giant hurdles in the way of all military projects are all "under stress". yet they have some of the most simple, easy stress-free jobs of anyone. They relieve their 'stress' by taking sickies or lining their pockets by profiting from H&S initiatives that block true progress”.
I think you should qualify this by stating what civil service jobs you are referring to. Presumably not those who spend most of their time trying to get sensible decisions out of an incoherent DEC in London. Some of these serving officers are, in my view, extremely stressed. For example, if you are not an engineer you cannot do 60% of a Requirement Manager’s job in DPA, so I imagine it is difficult continually having to off-load your work on those low paid menials who are trained to make it look easy, but who have been dumbed-down as posts had to found for an apparent excess of highly trained officers. Neither is to blame.
May I suggest you mean those with authority but little or no responsibility, such as financiers, suppliers, HR/Personnel (the worst of the lot at causing stress among staff); and the increasing numbers of non-technical staff filling posts requiring detailed technical knowledge of extremely complex systems. Lacking basic knowledge, they are in no position to take the action you correctly speak of. Believe me, I have worked on projects where we let the boss chair a technical meeting, and then came back the following day without him to do it properly. It is they who waste money and create delay.
I think you should qualify this by stating what civil service jobs you are referring to. Presumably not those who spend most of their time trying to get sensible decisions out of an incoherent DEC in London. Some of these serving officers are, in my view, extremely stressed. For example, if you are not an engineer you cannot do 60% of a Requirement Manager’s job in DPA, so I imagine it is difficult continually having to off-load your work on those low paid menials who are trained to make it look easy, but who have been dumbed-down as posts had to found for an apparent excess of highly trained officers. Neither is to blame.
May I suggest you mean those with authority but little or no responsibility, such as financiers, suppliers, HR/Personnel (the worst of the lot at causing stress among staff); and the increasing numbers of non-technical staff filling posts requiring detailed technical knowledge of extremely complex systems. Lacking basic knowledge, they are in no position to take the action you correctly speak of. Believe me, I have worked on projects where we let the boss chair a technical meeting, and then came back the following day without him to do it properly. It is they who waste money and create delay.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
<<You could even offer to appear in court as a witness in the event of legal action!>>
This is the ultimate HSE get out of jail free card [B]or[B] the one that ensures you have good company there.
Seriously, is H&S, if you are aware of something then you are also responsible be you the worker, his mate, his boss or THE BOSS. It immediately kills the 'I didn't know' excuse (decode I am incompetent).
As long as you pass it up the line your 6 is covered. But you must do it in a 'can do' manner and not a whinging 'can't do' manner. A stress shared is a stress halved, ask any bridge.
I had a great boss once in a job that was not obviously stressful just a regular 6 day week with 10 and 14 hour shifts. He was not around on the 14 hours shifts. I began making mistakes, a colleague brought this to the bosses attention, he had a word with me and saw that I got more rest for a day or so and less stress for a while. Careful management is needed at all times. Don't be too work focused.
The jet fell over, the training trip didn't happen. C'est la vie - it will never happen but another trip will come along.
This is the ultimate HSE get out of jail free card [B]or[B] the one that ensures you have good company there.
Seriously, is H&S, if you are aware of something then you are also responsible be you the worker, his mate, his boss or THE BOSS. It immediately kills the 'I didn't know' excuse (decode I am incompetent).
As long as you pass it up the line your 6 is covered. But you must do it in a 'can do' manner and not a whinging 'can't do' manner. A stress shared is a stress halved, ask any bridge.
I had a great boss once in a job that was not obviously stressful just a regular 6 day week with 10 and 14 hour shifts. He was not around on the 14 hours shifts. I began making mistakes, a colleague brought this to the bosses attention, he had a word with me and saw that I got more rest for a day or so and less stress for a while. Careful management is needed at all times. Don't be too work focused.
The jet fell over, the training trip didn't happen. C'est la vie - it will never happen but another trip will come along.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not the end of the world but I can see it from here!
Age: 54
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Under Duty of Care, as a flight commander your manpower must matter to you otherwise you might as well have been commissioned as admin. You should know enough about your people that you can pick up on changes in their demeanor or character, which tend to highlight stress and other problems. You should also talk to others in the chains of command regularly and highlight any concerns you may have of either workloads or individuals. By keeping an open mind and ,dare i say it, an open door, these stress related issues come to you, you don't have to go and find them. I know we are all stretched past a comfortable elastic limit with all the lean, cost savings and reducing manpower numbers as a result of redundancy, but by accepting the commission or promotion you are placed in a position of authority, the guys might hate you, if you are lucky they will tolerate you but your job is to look after the most important resource the Services have, the manpower. Just because the ivory towers have lost the plot does not mean that those of us lower down have to. I fully acknowledge that my career will go no where because I look after my guys first and the job second but that is my interpretation of my commission.
Stress is out there and some of the troops handle it differently, the trick is to know when it is kicking in, identify how your guys handle it and look after the ones who have problems and 'Could be the last' you are liable because they are your guys but you are not the only one, when a problem is detected that is beyond your capabilities their is a vast support structure that takes it off your hands and either makes it better or move the individual to a more suitable post, in consultation with you both. You will not get sued if you miss it because the individual has hidden it really well from everybody but if it was obvious and everyone new except you I would think that you would deserve to get a hammering for it.
I am sorry the above is written as I thought it and not laid out as per JSP101 but this is a subject I have strong feelings for having seen how it can fail an individual but also recently how for a couple of my guys the system kicked in and made it better.
This is one thing that as a flight commander you can make a difference and not blame the system.
PA
Stress is out there and some of the troops handle it differently, the trick is to know when it is kicking in, identify how your guys handle it and look after the ones who have problems and 'Could be the last' you are liable because they are your guys but you are not the only one, when a problem is detected that is beyond your capabilities their is a vast support structure that takes it off your hands and either makes it better or move the individual to a more suitable post, in consultation with you both. You will not get sued if you miss it because the individual has hidden it really well from everybody but if it was obvious and everyone new except you I would think that you would deserve to get a hammering for it.
I am sorry the above is written as I thought it and not laid out as per JSP101 but this is a subject I have strong feelings for having seen how it can fail an individual but also recently how for a couple of my guys the system kicked in and made it better.
This is one thing that as a flight commander you can make a difference and not blame the system.
PA
