Capped Actuals
Thread Starter
Capped Actuals
This is No Duff.
A very reliable bloke in the pub has confirmed that as of 1 Apr all alowances will be administered as Capped Actuals.
In practice this means that down route the imprest holder will still issue an amount of money equivalent to the local rate, but you will have to provide reciepts for what you buy and pay back the change. Obviously the generosity of our lords and masters will not extend to a few beers at the end of a 16 hr day.
In other words a night stop or more practically 24 off somewhere half decent (a rarity these days I know) could be an expensive proposition. Any thoughts?
A very reliable bloke in the pub has confirmed that as of 1 Apr all alowances will be administered as Capped Actuals.
In practice this means that down route the imprest holder will still issue an amount of money equivalent to the local rate, but you will have to provide reciepts for what you buy and pay back the change. Obviously the generosity of our lords and masters will not extend to a few beers at the end of a 16 hr day.
In other words a night stop or more practically 24 off somewhere half decent (a rarity these days I know) could be an expensive proposition. Any thoughts?
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What concerns me is that we're gonna have to keep receipts for at least a year, and possibly longer. Are we gonna get a 'pay your accountant' allowance. This may be all very well for the blunties that might do a couple of nights in London a year, but for those of us that spend months every year on detatchment/deployment, it's gonna be an administrative nightmare.
Imagine all the receipts, for every single meal, from an 8 week detatchment, several times a year.
Please, show me to the door.
Imagine all the receipts, for every single meal, from an 8 week detatchment, several times a year.
Please, show me to the door.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sunny East Sussex
Age: 49
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get a copy of the rules, and work out the maximum entitlement. Buy everything you are entitled to at every opportunity. If you dont want it, throw it in the bin.
If we can make this cost a fortune, they will stop it, as happened last time they tried this.
Play them at their game, just make sure you know the rules.
If we can make this cost a fortune, they will stop it, as happened last time they tried this.
Play them at their game, just make sure you know the rules.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Not if they cap actuals at the original level of rates we wont. How about we refuse to eat somewhere unless they label all "drinks" purchases on a reciept as beverages?
And are we going to have the ludicrous situation (as usual) of some blunty sribbly sitting in an office, on 25K PA chasing up overclaims which potentially add up to very little?
Another affront to our way of life I fear. Well I tell you this, the buggers aint going to get PAYD in MY mess, no matter HOW much money it saves them. That would be the last straw, Ive only been in 6 years!!!
And are we going to have the ludicrous situation (as usual) of some blunty sribbly sitting in an office, on 25K PA chasing up overclaims which potentially add up to very little?
Another affront to our way of life I fear. Well I tell you this, the buggers aint going to get PAYD in MY mess, no matter HOW much money it saves them. That would be the last straw, Ive only been in 6 years!!!
Thread Starter
See what you're saying P-T, However. The snag with how they are administering it this time is that they will only pay up to the current daily rate. In other words, unless you can spend and get receipts for the EXACT amount of that rate, the system will always end up paying out less.
And if you are planning to snow the system under with 25 individual receipts for diet cokes to spend your whole allowance, remember this is all under the auspices of JPA where YOU are responsible for administration. The only person you will make work for is yourself. I think the fun police have really thought this one through!
And if you are planning to snow the system under with 25 individual receipts for diet cokes to spend your whole allowance, remember this is all under the auspices of JPA where YOU are responsible for administration. The only person you will make work for is yourself. I think the fun police have really thought this one through!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Front seat of a Mahogany Bomber
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As ever the Bean Counters trying to squeeze every last drop of blood from the boys. Their line will be "...just ensuring that people are only receiving what they are entitled to claim for...". They have no concept of the admin burden it will cause; push factor or what! As for trust......
Few points to ponder:
What if you find yourself in a strange hotel, in a strange city at a strange hour of the day. No other food outlet available/open, and the cost of the meal you are entitled to is outside the "capping" of the actuals. Do you have to go hungry?
Alternatively, what if you find yourself ot some form of airport snack bar where no receipts are available? Do you pay from your own pocket?
Few points to ponder:
What if you find yourself in a strange hotel, in a strange city at a strange hour of the day. No other food outlet available/open, and the cost of the meal you are entitled to is outside the "capping" of the actuals. Do you have to go hungry?
Alternatively, what if you find yourself ot some form of airport snack bar where no receipts are available? Do you pay from your own pocket?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ex
I understand with Problem 1 you can pay over your allowance but have to justify it. I imagine this will be a simple process only requiring a sworn statement in Crown Court, countersigned by the last 4 generations of your ancestors.
Characteristically, nobody appears to have made provision for Problem 2. The Counters only tend to travel business class and stay in 4* and above so of course they can get receipts. You little people? Oh you're being petty...
A good one I thought of was the junior ranks on 8+ week dets - in expensive places (BAH?) they'll be seriously out of pocket (% wise) when they get back. As the Army are the lead on this I doubt welfare was a high priority at the ideas stage.
I understand with Problem 1 you can pay over your allowance but have to justify it. I imagine this will be a simple process only requiring a sworn statement in Crown Court, countersigned by the last 4 generations of your ancestors.
Characteristically, nobody appears to have made provision for Problem 2. The Counters only tend to travel business class and stay in 4* and above so of course they can get receipts. You little people? Oh you're being petty...
A good one I thought of was the junior ranks on 8+ week dets - in expensive places (BAH?) they'll be seriously out of pocket (% wise) when they get back. As the Army are the lead on this I doubt welfare was a high priority at the ideas stage.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: northside
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I cant see the problem. At the moment we get subs, which work out to be at or around £24 a day. In the future we will get actuals which will be at or around £24 a day. At the moment we have to fill a long and complicated form in, have it signed and counter-signed by your Budget controller - send it off to the UPO where they sit on it for a month before they send it back tewlling you that you missed a full stop out of it and eventually you may get your money. In the future, you'll tick a couple of boxes on your PC, click the send button and the wadge will be in your bank. The only propblem is that you have to keep receipts for 12 months. Well, that will be the same as keeping your receipts that you do now...receipts for petrol, food, clothing etc.. Can someone enlighten me as to what the difference will be?
Guest
Posts: n/a
What happens when the rates do not cover the meals allowances required for living somewhere? In the old days you could go on actuals, and take copies of the menus etc? Is this going to happen?
The other thing is what about UK night stops, I know £20 doesn't go very far when trying to get breakfast, lunch and dinner of a reputable quality?
With regard to keeping receipts, I don't personally keep personal meal receipts for a year, maybe something that might go wrong eg electrical items, but food bills, no.
WRW
The other thing is what about UK night stops, I know £20 doesn't go very far when trying to get breakfast, lunch and dinner of a reputable quality?
With regard to keeping receipts, I don't personally keep personal meal receipts for a year, maybe something that might go wrong eg electrical items, but food bills, no.
WRW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North of Down There!
Age: 52
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote
"A very reliable bloke in the pub has confirmed that as of 1 Apr all allowances will be administered as Capped Actuals."
I can tell you that its happening now. In a couple of days time I will be on capped actuals albeit only for 5 days but I'll let you know what a balls-ache it is afterwards.
Don't know if they've thought about the hassles of trying to get individual bills from a restaurant when eating together as a large multi-engine crew. Or as aluded to earlier when flying outside 'normal working hours' and trying to manage receipts from a 9 week deployment.
Also if you're not issued an advance against the capped actual, how are the junior ground crew members going to fund themselves through a long det?
I don't suppose the fun police care about that!
"A very reliable bloke in the pub has confirmed that as of 1 Apr all allowances will be administered as Capped Actuals."
I can tell you that its happening now. In a couple of days time I will be on capped actuals albeit only for 5 days but I'll let you know what a balls-ache it is afterwards.
Don't know if they've thought about the hassles of trying to get individual bills from a restaurant when eating together as a large multi-engine crew. Or as aluded to earlier when flying outside 'normal working hours' and trying to manage receipts from a 9 week deployment.
Also if you're not issued an advance against the capped actual, how are the junior ground crew members going to fund themselves through a long det?
I don't suppose the fun police care about that!
Thread Starter
Southside, The last time I was entitled to rates, the imprest holder gave me $60 and I put my signature to a single piece of paper and that was that. No admin burden and I could even have a few glasses of wine with my meal (I would at home so why not down route?)No receipts, no hassle and if it was a long layover a couple of social beers with the rest of the crew.
And before anyone gets on a high horse about Alcohol, a T-Totaler would feel a bit stupid asking for a receipt for his OJ and lemonade downtown. Or are we all supposed to remain in the hotel and not have a look around while we are lucky enough to go somewhere with some entertainment?
In a world of increasingly monotonous dets to increasingly grubby places, I find it a little annoying that someone seems intent on chiseling away at one of the few aspects of the job that people enjoy these days.
And before anyone gets on a high horse about Alcohol, a T-Totaler would feel a bit stupid asking for a receipt for his OJ and lemonade downtown. Or are we all supposed to remain in the hotel and not have a look around while we are lucky enough to go somewhere with some entertainment?
In a world of increasingly monotonous dets to increasingly grubby places, I find it a little annoying that someone seems intent on chiseling away at one of the few aspects of the job that people enjoy these days.
Last edited by Arty Fufkin; 1st Feb 2006 at 17:33.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think you're right Arty, there's definitely chisellers at work here...
On the up side, the savings from you will pay for the staff needed to do the percentage checks - brilliant!
Sarcasm apart, it does seem extremely poorly thought out.
On the up side, the savings from you will pay for the staff needed to do the percentage checks - brilliant!
Sarcasm apart, it does seem extremely poorly thought out.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Jackonicko - why not run a story:
"Servicemen's debts likely to rise as Blair talks of the debt we all owe"
As Tony Blair referred to the debt we all owe British servicemen for their work in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, elsewhere modest allowances for overnight duty stops were in the process of being cut. The rates, paid to servicemen who require overnight accommodation away from home base, such as RAF aircrews, are being replaced by a bureacratic system of collecting and reclaiming receipts. This is in stark contrast to the serviceman's boss, the Defence Secretary, who as a Member of Parliament receives £87 [for example] with no need to account for actual expenditure. An unidentified RAF officer said "it's ridiculous - I've spent half my week away counting up Euros, Zlotys, Dollars and Dinar, all handed back to me by the crew. I've even had to give them all receipts so they can account for the money given back". A RAF spokesman said "This new accounting system works perfectly well and, with staff adjustments, only costs £32,000 more a year". "Pound for pound it's second to none of any other bad idea we've ever had" he added.
Maybe in expensive places we could have a cost of living allowance - we could call it...Local Overseas Allowance or something...
"Servicemen's debts likely to rise as Blair talks of the debt we all owe"
As Tony Blair referred to the debt we all owe British servicemen for their work in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, elsewhere modest allowances for overnight duty stops were in the process of being cut. The rates, paid to servicemen who require overnight accommodation away from home base, such as RAF aircrews, are being replaced by a bureacratic system of collecting and reclaiming receipts. This is in stark contrast to the serviceman's boss, the Defence Secretary, who as a Member of Parliament receives £87 [for example] with no need to account for actual expenditure. An unidentified RAF officer said "it's ridiculous - I've spent half my week away counting up Euros, Zlotys, Dollars and Dinar, all handed back to me by the crew. I've even had to give them all receipts so they can account for the money given back". A RAF spokesman said "This new accounting system works perfectly well and, with staff adjustments, only costs £32,000 more a year". "Pound for pound it's second to none of any other bad idea we've ever had" he added.
Maybe in expensive places we could have a cost of living allowance - we could call it...Local Overseas Allowance or something...
Last edited by dallas; 1st Feb 2006 at 18:12.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Truckie mate speaking, and breaking it down for all to understand,so here goes .. . .
This capped actuals thing. I'm going to have to give the defence for the system first.
On a route, as a truckie, the Co carries an imprest, with suitable denominations of money for areas you are likely to visit, in suitable quantities and with a "rate" sheet for each area. So on a States trip, some US dollars and Canadian dollars would see you good. Out to the desert, US and Euro's would see you good. They give you a sheet, you put your details on it , sign for X amount and that's that. Any balance or refund is done through your pay. Paperwork is minimum (for all except the Co maybe)
Now the rate sheet has an amount for B'fast, lunch and dinner, the purpose being that if you are on the ground for more than 3 hrs and at least 30 mins in the period, you are entitled to the appropriate rate. Now I don't care what anyone says, but if you can't get dinner in Cyprus for £25 Cyp or lunch for £11, or even dinner in the States for $40 US, then you either being ripped off or eating far too much.
The current system gives you the money, say $80 US for the day, and assumes we are all big boys and girls and eat our greens like Mum says. You can go and blow $75 on getting pi$$ed and get McDonalds or you can go and get a proper 3 course meal, as per the rules and the costings the scribblies worked to when they went out to determine the cost.
A Big point here fella's, rates are great for drinking on, but the RAF doesn't owe you alcohol at the end of your day. It's meant for eating. Maybe you'd like to see a rate for 3 local beers per 24hr stop. But until that happens, the system is for food and soft drinks with your meal. The idea is that if you were at your home base, you could eat a decent meal in your mess and have water or squash with your meal. You don't get a pint with your meal in the mess. If you want one, you buy it yourself at the mess bar. You don't expect to drink at home for free, so why abroad ?
Now I know there's nothing better than meeting in the bar after a long hard day for some well deserved beers. I don't think we as a public service can justify using taxpayers money specifically for alcohol. If you can get a scam going with a restaurant and with the receipts stating Coke, then fine, good on you. But the RAF has to devise a system for feeding you down route.
The thing with the new system is that the RAF can only make or save on it. Before they were giving $80 a day, now, if you manage to eat and get receipts for $80, then they aren't spending any more. On the balance of things, people will either get receipts for less, so money is saved or if you eat over, then they still only pay the $80.
But what if I can't eat on that ? Get menu's from where you are, and if you can prove the cost was indeed resonable, then it gets sorted and the rate revised for further visits.
You also get a rate for Personal Incidental Expenses or PIE as it's known. This caters for your newspaper you must have down route, a 3 MINUTE (note this point, we'll be coming back to this) home to the missus or whoever, and laundry. For instance, in the states, it's $18.30 at the moment I think.
Now the 3 minute call home, done from the comfort of your Marriott room to the wife's mobile, I reckon could eat up the $18 in one go. But that's the entitlement, so make a point of it. Get a receipt for the 3 min call which the hotel should provide and if everyone does that, it can't be long before the paper trails says " It was cheaper to give them $18, and let them deal with it. This way, it's costing much more" Also interesting to note that the call could be your mobile to a UK mobile I guess ? You are entitled to a 3 min call. So make sure you use it.
The big ball ache will be whether you have to keep the receipts yourself for a year (or risk an audit ? What will they do if you can't provide a receipt for that one dinner in Lajes ?) OR whether the Co will have to take in all the receipts as part of the imprest ?
Where will it hit the hardest ? Bahrain. Those on a 4 month tour won't be able to save quite as much money as they have in the past, and those familiar with the situation there will know just how much of an effect that will have.
This capped actuals thing. I'm going to have to give the defence for the system first.
On a route, as a truckie, the Co carries an imprest, with suitable denominations of money for areas you are likely to visit, in suitable quantities and with a "rate" sheet for each area. So on a States trip, some US dollars and Canadian dollars would see you good. Out to the desert, US and Euro's would see you good. They give you a sheet, you put your details on it , sign for X amount and that's that. Any balance or refund is done through your pay. Paperwork is minimum (for all except the Co maybe)
Now the rate sheet has an amount for B'fast, lunch and dinner, the purpose being that if you are on the ground for more than 3 hrs and at least 30 mins in the period, you are entitled to the appropriate rate. Now I don't care what anyone says, but if you can't get dinner in Cyprus for £25 Cyp or lunch for £11, or even dinner in the States for $40 US, then you either being ripped off or eating far too much.
The current system gives you the money, say $80 US for the day, and assumes we are all big boys and girls and eat our greens like Mum says. You can go and blow $75 on getting pi$$ed and get McDonalds or you can go and get a proper 3 course meal, as per the rules and the costings the scribblies worked to when they went out to determine the cost.
A Big point here fella's, rates are great for drinking on, but the RAF doesn't owe you alcohol at the end of your day. It's meant for eating. Maybe you'd like to see a rate for 3 local beers per 24hr stop. But until that happens, the system is for food and soft drinks with your meal. The idea is that if you were at your home base, you could eat a decent meal in your mess and have water or squash with your meal. You don't get a pint with your meal in the mess. If you want one, you buy it yourself at the mess bar. You don't expect to drink at home for free, so why abroad ?
Now I know there's nothing better than meeting in the bar after a long hard day for some well deserved beers. I don't think we as a public service can justify using taxpayers money specifically for alcohol. If you can get a scam going with a restaurant and with the receipts stating Coke, then fine, good on you. But the RAF has to devise a system for feeding you down route.
The thing with the new system is that the RAF can only make or save on it. Before they were giving $80 a day, now, if you manage to eat and get receipts for $80, then they aren't spending any more. On the balance of things, people will either get receipts for less, so money is saved or if you eat over, then they still only pay the $80.
But what if I can't eat on that ? Get menu's from where you are, and if you can prove the cost was indeed resonable, then it gets sorted and the rate revised for further visits.
You also get a rate for Personal Incidental Expenses or PIE as it's known. This caters for your newspaper you must have down route, a 3 MINUTE (note this point, we'll be coming back to this) home to the missus or whoever, and laundry. For instance, in the states, it's $18.30 at the moment I think.
Now the 3 minute call home, done from the comfort of your Marriott room to the wife's mobile, I reckon could eat up the $18 in one go. But that's the entitlement, so make a point of it. Get a receipt for the 3 min call which the hotel should provide and if everyone does that, it can't be long before the paper trails says " It was cheaper to give them $18, and let them deal with it. This way, it's costing much more" Also interesting to note that the call could be your mobile to a UK mobile I guess ? You are entitled to a 3 min call. So make sure you use it.
The big ball ache will be whether you have to keep the receipts yourself for a year (or risk an audit ? What will they do if you can't provide a receipt for that one dinner in Lajes ?) OR whether the Co will have to take in all the receipts as part of the imprest ?
Where will it hit the hardest ? Bahrain. Those on a 4 month tour won't be able to save quite as much money as they have in the past, and those familiar with the situation there will know just how much of an effect that will have.
Last edited by FFP; 1st Feb 2006 at 18:07.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: UK - sometimes
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What about tips or, as they are often called, service charges? Certainly in the US, waitresses etc are taxed as if they receive tips. So do we now have to ask for a receipt for tips? How pikey are we going to look?
If we don’t get a receipt for the tip we have to cough up about 10-15% of the cost out of our own pocket. So $80 allowed per day for food & non-alcoholic beverages means $8-12 of your own money on tips.
A 30 day det will cost you $240 – 360 in tips.
The wedge is getting thicker.
If we don’t get a receipt for the tip we have to cough up about 10-15% of the cost out of our own pocket. So $80 allowed per day for food & non-alcoholic beverages means $8-12 of your own money on tips.
A 30 day det will cost you $240 – 360 in tips.
The wedge is getting thicker.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Point of order FFP
"On a route, as a truckie, the Co carries an imprest" Wrong take your clothes off as the mighty J empowers the enlisted filth with imprest
Edited to avoid getting in bother
As previously posted phone home from your hotel room, having first established the most expensive method and don't forget to order the paper you are entitled to
If "used" properly this new capped system will not save any money for the bean counters but will prove to be great fun for the rest of us as we come up with new and more imaginative ways of beating the thieving gypsy admin world
all spelling mistake are "df" alcohol induced
"On a route, as a truckie, the Co carries an imprest" Wrong take your clothes off as the mighty J empowers the enlisted filth with imprest
Edited to avoid getting in bother
As previously posted phone home from your hotel room, having first established the most expensive method and don't forget to order the paper you are entitled to
If "used" properly this new capped system will not save any money for the bean counters but will prove to be great fun for the rest of us as we come up with new and more imaginative ways of beating the thieving gypsy admin world
all spelling mistake are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 2nd Feb 2006 at 17:38.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: wilts
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And rightly so giving the imprest to the enlisted filth!!!
I like your imagination Always Broken, and as my morale could not get any lower with the airforce, they bring this sh** in...
But i am pleased to say i am looking forward to my next route with you(now you have stopped war dodging!!) to fully push the limits to this new system!!
Thanks!
I like your imagination Always Broken, and as my morale could not get any lower with the airforce, they bring this sh** in...
But i am pleased to say i am looking forward to my next route with you(now you have stopped war dodging!!) to fully push the limits to this new system!!
Thanks!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: northside
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why not issue all SNCOs and above corporate credit cards