The Royal Air Force (TM)
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The Royal Air Force (TM)
Earlier today, I had a most peculiar enquiry from a friend who likes to put Airfix kits together. It appears that the MoD, through the DPA, is claiming intellectual property/crown copyright over the roundel plus all squadron badges, crests, etc, etc and sending missives out to model kit manufacturers asking for information so that royalty payments can be calculated (the fear, I assume, is that Airfix kits will go up in price).
On explaining what the DPA is, I was pointed in the direction of the forum on which the issue was raised. It would seem that some of the image rights of the RAF have been licenced to a US firm, and is now part of a portfolio that seems to include the teenage ninja turtles and other great military figures. I'm not quite sure what Trenchard, Dowding, Harris et al would have made of this...
http://www.4kidsentertainment.com/properties/raf.html
I assume that the MoD has merely licenced the RAF (™) to this firm, and is hoping to rake in a tidy sum from emblazoning the image over a host of other things too. Might even pay for a JCA or three.
Edit: just looked at that link again, and the wording elsewhere seems to suggest that 4kids entertainment now think that the RAF is their property "To get more information about licensing our properties write to one of our brand managers at 4Kids Entertainment....Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles® / Mew Mew Power™ / Kappa Mikey™ / Royal Air Force™ Laurie Windrow"
(http://www.4kidsentertainment.com/se...ales_cont.html)
On explaining what the DPA is, I was pointed in the direction of the forum on which the issue was raised. It would seem that some of the image rights of the RAF have been licenced to a US firm, and is now part of a portfolio that seems to include the teenage ninja turtles and other great military figures. I'm not quite sure what Trenchard, Dowding, Harris et al would have made of this...
http://www.4kidsentertainment.com/properties/raf.html
I assume that the MoD has merely licenced the RAF (™) to this firm, and is hoping to rake in a tidy sum from emblazoning the image over a host of other things too. Might even pay for a JCA or three.
Edit: just looked at that link again, and the wording elsewhere seems to suggest that 4kids entertainment now think that the RAF is their property "To get more information about licensing our properties write to one of our brand managers at 4Kids Entertainment....Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles® / Mew Mew Power™ / Kappa Mikey™ / Royal Air Force™ Laurie Windrow"
(http://www.4kidsentertainment.com/se...ales_cont.html)
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ing believable!!!!
Just what were they thinking? Which t t allowed that to happen. Nevermind losing the next war, if we pitched up the other side would just point and laugh.
I couldn't tell you offhand how many chaps died in the battle of Britain, but I've seen the painting in Bentley Priory Mess and been to their memorial outside Dover. How pleased they must be that their deaths are now part of the sales pitch for f king Hasbro or whoever they are?
Everybody. PVR now and make them start again. This airforce has lost the plot entirely.
CBA
ing believable!!!! Just what were they thinking? Which t
t allowed that to happen. Nevermind losing the next war, if we pitched up the other side would just point and laugh.I couldn't tell you offhand how many chaps died in the battle of Britain, but I've seen the painting in Bentley Priory Mess and been to their memorial outside Dover. How pleased they must be that their deaths are now part of the sales pitch for f
king Hasbro or whoever they are?Everybody. PVR now and make them start again. This airforce has lost the plot entirely.
CBA
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Right....step away from the red wine bottle....refresh this post.....nope, not pi55ed then, but perhaps someone was? I'm sure this looked like a really good idea when someone was given it as their secondary duty, or chance to make their mark. Well, they've done that alright!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Media and Corporate Comms guys I believe. I will try and ask the q at the next symposium. And this after they lost the last court case to Diesel?
Certainly the MCO guys got Cranditz to work up the NEW RAF Fonts but so far, although used on merchandising it has not got out on the streets.
In case your wonder, the new font has a forward leaning A and F.
Certainly the MCO guys got Cranditz to work up the NEW RAF Fonts but so far, although used on merchandising it has not got out on the streets.
In case your wonder, the new font has a forward leaning A and F.
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Trademark??? What trade, exactly does Royal Air Force PLC engage in? Will Royal Navy PLC and Army PLC helicopters now have to remove their roundels? Does the RAF Museum have a licence? We need to be told these things...
Here's an example of a clear violation.
(I must say, I'm glad to see that Chiefies are still the same shape as they were in my day. Tradition is Tradition...
)
Here's an example of a clear violation.
(I must say, I'm glad to see that Chiefies are still the same shape as they were in my day. Tradition is Tradition...
)
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WoHaa, WoHaa everyone.
This has GOT to be a wind-up. Airfix must have been making kits for any where between 30-50 years at least I guess(anyone help me out on pre 1970 kits here??). Surely that means that any claim over markings is grossly out of date by at least 30 years?? Any lawyers here??
Me smells BS here
This has GOT to be a wind-up. Airfix must have been making kits for any where between 30-50 years at least I guess(anyone help me out on pre 1970 kits here??). Surely that means that any claim over markings is grossly out of date by at least 30 years?? Any lawyers here??
Me smells BS here
Thread Starter
K-I-J,
That's what I thought, but on going to the modeller's website concerned, there were lots of concerned small business types (the sort who put out markings not in kits - you know the sort of thing - Airfix lets you model a Harrier of 1 Sqn, while the decal manufacturer provides you with the ability to present your creation as something wearing the markings of 3, 4 or 20 Sqns) moaning about the MoD and the royalty charges. A couple of posters had alrady posited that it must be some kind of hoax, and I was minded to believe them.
I too thought that the ruling about the roundel being around for years and years, and having seen wide public use would apply, but this - apparently - is only applicable to clothing, not squadron badges, airfix kit decals, etc, etc. I'm not sure how that would hold up in a court, but I was still mildly sceptical...
...but then I found the links to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. So I've done a bit of searching, and found a report in the Independent (via http://www3.all-usenet-archive.com/F...?service=37573)
I'm begining to see where the idea of the RAF rucksack originated.
That's what I thought, but on going to the modeller's website concerned, there were lots of concerned small business types (the sort who put out markings not in kits - you know the sort of thing - Airfix lets you model a Harrier of 1 Sqn, while the decal manufacturer provides you with the ability to present your creation as something wearing the markings of 3, 4 or 20 Sqns) moaning about the MoD and the royalty charges. A couple of posters had alrady posited that it must be some kind of hoax, and I was minded to believe them.
I too thought that the ruling about the roundel being around for years and years, and having seen wide public use would apply, but this - apparently - is only applicable to clothing, not squadron badges, airfix kit decals, etc, etc. I'm not sure how that would hold up in a court, but I was still mildly sceptical...
...but then I found the links to the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. So I've done a bit of searching, and found a report in the Independent (via http://www3.all-usenet-archive.com/F...?service=37573)
Source: Independent du 20.10.2004
[The] Air Force yesterday signed a ground-breaking deal to produce a range of its own copyright-protected merchandise. It is believed to be the first broad-ranging agreement by any of Britain's armed forces to exploit their intellectual property. Geoff Hoon, the Secretary of State for Defence, yesterday signed the deal with 4Kids Entertainment International, the overseas operation of a USowned group specialising in intellectual property.
4Kids has merchandised popular children's products including Pokemon, Ninja Turtles and#u-Gi-Oh trading cards, a current craze. The RAF said it would use the MOD'S intellectual rights group to protect the trademarks it has now
registered....
...Squadron Leader Simon Buckingham said: "We want to raise awareness of the air force with the public in an appealing way .'.. the commercial part of this is almost incidental." He said research had shown that 47 per cent of the public did not know what RAF meant and most had difficulty differentiating between it and the Army. The royalties that the RAF will receive from the products will go to the Royal Air Fbrce Museum in Hendon, north London....
...
There will be four strands to the exploitation of the RAF brand; firstly, a mass-market range including computer games, "back to school" items, toys, stationery and clothing. An "authentics" range will seek to replicate the items used by members of the RAF, including sunglasses, penknives, bomberjackets and watches that can withstand high G-forces. A collectors' programme will produce memorabilia, such as plates and pictures, and a publishing programme will bring out coffee table books and part-works.
[The] Air Force yesterday signed a ground-breaking deal to produce a range of its own copyright-protected merchandise. It is believed to be the first broad-ranging agreement by any of Britain's armed forces to exploit their intellectual property. Geoff Hoon, the Secretary of State for Defence, yesterday signed the deal with 4Kids Entertainment International, the overseas operation of a USowned group specialising in intellectual property.
4Kids has merchandised popular children's products including Pokemon, Ninja Turtles and#u-Gi-Oh trading cards, a current craze. The RAF said it would use the MOD'S intellectual rights group to protect the trademarks it has now
registered....
...Squadron Leader Simon Buckingham said: "We want to raise awareness of the air force with the public in an appealing way .'.. the commercial part of this is almost incidental." He said research had shown that 47 per cent of the public did not know what RAF meant and most had difficulty differentiating between it and the Army. The royalties that the RAF will receive from the products will go to the Royal Air Fbrce Museum in Hendon, north London....
...
There will be four strands to the exploitation of the RAF brand; firstly, a mass-market range including computer games, "back to school" items, toys, stationery and clothing. An "authentics" range will seek to replicate the items used by members of the RAF, including sunglasses, penknives, bomberjackets and watches that can withstand high G-forces. A collectors' programme will produce memorabilia, such as plates and pictures, and a publishing programme will bring out coffee table books and part-works.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Ali Barber, it was but they prbably found a new angle. They lost to Diesel over its roundel but by licencing and allowing the addition of the RAF bit then they have probably moved to Diesel's side.
In addition to the rucksack - the RAF trainers?
Mind you, tried to buy a watch on eBay recently? You can buy genuine Russian air force, navy, submariner, spy (even) watches. The latter has KGB in cyrilic script on the face. Obviously so KGB spies can recognise each other but no one else can.
Would anyone in the air force wear its merchandising?
Kim il Jong, sadly I remember the first two airfix kits. A Spitfire and a Gladiator. Got them in London about 1954-55.
In addition to the rucksack - the RAF trainers?
Mind you, tried to buy a watch on eBay recently? You can buy genuine Russian air force, navy, submariner, spy (even) watches. The latter has KGB in cyrilic script on the face. Obviously so KGB spies can recognise each other but no one else can.
Would anyone in the air force wear its merchandising?
Kim il Jong, sadly I remember the first two airfix kits. A Spitfire and a Gladiator. Got them in London about 1954-55.
"4Kids Entertainment is proud to be associated with the rich tradition of the Royal Air Force™, bringing to market a licensing program designed to appeal to both the enthusiast and a new generation of RAF fans.
4Kids plans to launch the initial product line in early 2006, including luggage, tools, men's gift and publishing - with toys, apparel and accessories following later in 2006."
Luggage which is mover-proof? Tools that come with little dayglo shadows to stick to your wall? Men's 'gift' - that'll be the rucksack (fortunately not Kelvin the Redundant Rucksack, no-one would want him!), that prayer mat thing which does such a good job stopping my car door from hitting the garage wall, I guess? 'Publishing' - that uneed2no plus all the glossy, regrettably non-absorbent bumf pushed out from the AirPah mob. But toys? Are they flogging off Das Teutor?? Apparel and accessories - "Buy your desert kit here, it's the only place you'll find any"?
Presumably HM has signed over the rights to use the expression 'Royal'?
Who is this Simon Buckingham?
4Kids plans to launch the initial product line in early 2006, including luggage, tools, men's gift and publishing - with toys, apparel and accessories following later in 2006."
Luggage which is mover-proof? Tools that come with little dayglo shadows to stick to your wall? Men's 'gift' - that'll be the rucksack (fortunately not Kelvin the Redundant Rucksack, no-one would want him!), that prayer mat thing which does such a good job stopping my car door from hitting the garage wall, I guess? 'Publishing' - that uneed2no plus all the glossy, regrettably non-absorbent bumf pushed out from the AirPah mob. But toys? Are they flogging off Das Teutor?? Apparel and accessories - "Buy your desert kit here, it's the only place you'll find any"?
Presumably HM has signed over the rights to use the expression 'Royal'?
Who is this Simon Buckingham?
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...research had shown that 47 per cent of the public did not know what RAF meant and most had difficulty differentiating between it and the Army
There will be four strands to the exploitation of the RAF brand; firstly, a mass-market range including computer games, "back to school" items, toys, stationery and clothing. An "authentics" range will seek to replicate the items used by members of the RAF, including sunglasses, penknives, bomberjackets and watches that can withstand high G-forces....
Oh God! Whats the point???
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47 per cent of the public did not know what RAF meant
"There will be four strands to the exploitation of the RAF brand..."
God, what marketing-luvvie drivel....
Let me think of 4 suitable 'strands':
1. Fighters
2. Bombers & MPA
3. Transport & Tankers
4. Helicopters
God, what marketing-luvvie drivel....
Let me think of 4 suitable 'strands':
1. Fighters
2. Bombers & MPA
3. Transport & Tankers
4. Helicopters