People going sick.
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People going sick.
In todays age of cost cutting, End to End, Lean and manpower losses, isnt it time the RAF, and the MOD introduced a set period of payed sick leave?
Obviously the people that are genuinely sick are looked after, but the pi55 takers are hit in the pocket.
Obviously the people that are genuinely sick are looked after, but the pi55 takers are hit in the pocket.
Last edited by Mr Wippy; 17th Jan 2006 at 18:48.
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Re: People going sick.
Wippy,
Just the other day I was listening to the Post Office problems - they have lots of 'sickness' and have resorted to running a rewards scheme for people who show up for work. Turn up for work consistently over a set period and you can win a car! Oh yeah, they also pay you too!
Fortunately we're not in that situation yet but the more w@nk ideas the bosses come up with - my forthcoming favourite is the annual shovel sand from one box to another test - the more likely it is to happen.
In your situation I would do two things: run your own rewards scheme when it comes to someone needed for a nice (and not) det, friday afternoon stand down etc. Also, make it quite clear to Bloggs that if he's seen anywhere other than his room and the mess at meal times he'll be charged. Reinforce this by telling him 'duty of care' means you'll have to send people to infrequently visit him to make sure he's ok. After 14 days in the block, work will be a dream come true!
Just the other day I was listening to the Post Office problems - they have lots of 'sickness' and have resorted to running a rewards scheme for people who show up for work. Turn up for work consistently over a set period and you can win a car! Oh yeah, they also pay you too!
Fortunately we're not in that situation yet but the more w@nk ideas the bosses come up with - my forthcoming favourite is the annual shovel sand from one box to another test - the more likely it is to happen.
In your situation I would do two things: run your own rewards scheme when it comes to someone needed for a nice (and not) det, friday afternoon stand down etc. Also, make it quite clear to Bloggs that if he's seen anywhere other than his room and the mess at meal times he'll be charged. Reinforce this by telling him 'duty of care' means you'll have to send people to infrequently visit him to make sure he's ok. After 14 days in the block, work will be a dream come true!
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Re: People going sick.
The trouble is we all tread a very thin line thats constantly getting thinner with regards to 'bullying or harrassment'.
I have had one of female JNCO's around to the SAC's room (she is a female), and the SAC came to me to ask why she wasn't trusted !!!!!!!!!!!
Gone are the days of 'you are fizzed, give me ur 1250 and get down the guard room'
In fact, its more hassle nowadys to charge someone. You now have to write 'witness statements' and the paperwork is such a bind.
What is the RAF coming to?
I have had one of female JNCO's around to the SAC's room (she is a female), and the SAC came to me to ask why she wasn't trusted !!!!!!!!!!!
Gone are the days of 'you are fizzed, give me ur 1250 and get down the guard room'
In fact, its more hassle nowadys to charge someone. You now have to write 'witness statements' and the paperwork is such a bind.
What is the RAF coming to?
Re: People going sick.
Mr W
Firstly my commiserations.
What you need to do is write truthful apraisals, and every time this individual slips below the standards that the rest of his workmates set, inform him, in writing getting him to sign that he has been appraised of his shortcomings, keeping a signed copy on file and a copy for him.
I know it is extra pain for you but this is the only way you can a give him an overall 1 thus preventing an annual increment
It also has the added bonus of compiling evidence for possible future admin action
One of two results should follow this course of action
either he bucks up or he's dimissed
You'd be doing everyone a favour
Good Luck
ps if you can catch him out of quarters whilst he's siq might help too
Firstly my commiserations.
What you need to do is write truthful apraisals, and every time this individual slips below the standards that the rest of his workmates set, inform him, in writing getting him to sign that he has been appraised of his shortcomings, keeping a signed copy on file and a copy for him.
I know it is extra pain for you but this is the only way you can a give him an overall 1 thus preventing an annual increment
It also has the added bonus of compiling evidence for possible future admin actionOne of two results should follow this course of action
either he bucks up or he's dimissed
You'd be doing everyone a favour
Good Luck
ps if you can catch him out of quarters whilst he's siq might help too
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Re: People going sick.
Get the Doc on side. They don't like being messed around either but, like you, they need to play safe. Is it the same, or similar, problem? Get your line management at the same level to talk to the docs. Is it always the same doc or always different?
Speak to the Chief Clerk, WO, OC PSF etc. They will ensure the proper admin protocols are followed.
There may be a case for a psyciatric review and environmental posting. A formal warning may solve the problem too however it also means they cannot get posted.
We had a WRAF (as was) who came to us and we discovered that she had been refered to the shrinks. The doc also told us the gist of the shrinks report. It made the world of difference on how she was treated - I won't say more. She was ultimately given a formal warning whereupon she played the environmental card. This time we made sure her new WO was fully briefed.
She left the RAF 3 months after the posting. Oh and she had 4 A levels.
Speak to the Chief Clerk, WO, OC PSF etc. They will ensure the proper admin protocols are followed.
There may be a case for a psyciatric review and environmental posting. A formal warning may solve the problem too however it also means they cannot get posted.
We had a WRAF (as was) who came to us and we discovered that she had been refered to the shrinks. The doc also told us the gist of the shrinks report. It made the world of difference on how she was treated - I won't say more. She was ultimately given a formal warning whereupon she played the environmental card. This time we made sure her new WO was fully briefed.
She left the RAF 3 months after the posting. Oh and she had 4 A levels.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Re: People going sick.
FOMere,
Now you come to mention it, yes. In the first woman's case it probably meant she was bored rigid with the job and her coworkers.
I know two others. One was potentially suitable for a commission but she had a fixed view that first you needed to be commanded before you could command. Very socialist.
The other was not suitable for a commission but definitely NOT qualified for the job she had. The recruiters had grabbed her in but then risked boring her with the wrong job.
So yes, do watch the bright ones and make sure they are properly encouraged and mentored even if it might appear to lead to favouritism. There are only so many openings available to 'star' and it is up to you to make sure you use all the skills and attributes of your workers to the best of their ability.
Now you come to mention it, yes. In the first woman's case it probably meant she was bored rigid with the job and her coworkers.
I know two others. One was potentially suitable for a commission but she had a fixed view that first you needed to be commanded before you could command. Very socialist.
The other was not suitable for a commission but definitely NOT qualified for the job she had. The recruiters had grabbed her in but then risked boring her with the wrong job.
So yes, do watch the bright ones and make sure they are properly encouraged and mentored even if it might appear to lead to favouritism. There are only so many openings available to 'star' and it is up to you to make sure you use all the skills and attributes of your workers to the best of their ability.
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Re: People going sick.
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
Get the Doc on side. They don't like being messed around either but, like you, they need to play safe. Is it the same, or similar, problem? Get your line management at the same level to talk to the docs. Is it always the same doc or always different?
Speak to the Chief Clerk, WO, OC PSF etc. They will ensure the proper admin protocols are followed.
There may be a case for a psyciatric review and environmental posting. A formal warning may solve the problem too however it also means they cannot get posted.
We had a WRAF (as was) who came to us and we discovered that she had been refered to the shrinks. The doc also told us the gist of the shrinks report. It made the world of difference on how she was treated - I won't say more. She was ultimately given a formal warning whereupon she played the environmental card. This time we made sure her new WO was fully briefed.
She left the RAF 3 months after the posting. Oh and she had 4 A levels.
Speak to the Chief Clerk, WO, OC PSF etc. They will ensure the proper admin protocols are followed.
There may be a case for a psyciatric review and environmental posting. A formal warning may solve the problem too however it also means they cannot get posted.
We had a WRAF (as was) who came to us and we discovered that she had been refered to the shrinks. The doc also told us the gist of the shrinks report. It made the world of difference on how she was treated - I won't say more. She was ultimately given a formal warning whereupon she played the environmental card. This time we made sure her new WO was fully briefed.
She left the RAF 3 months after the posting. Oh and she had 4 A levels.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Re: People going sick.
Mr Whippy, that indeed may be a problem however they all went to the same medical school and soon get pissed off with lead swinging.
In the case I mentioned the doc was indeed service and I was astonished by the candour displayed. The airwoman must have pissed the doc off right royally.
Short answer, nothing ventured nothing lost. Get someone to talk to the doc.
In the case I mentioned the doc was indeed service and I was astonished by the candour displayed. The airwoman must have pissed the doc off right royally.
Short answer, nothing ventured nothing lost. Get someone to talk to the doc.
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Re: People going sick.
Mr Wippy,
A lot of civilian organisations are now adopting a far harder approach to casual sickness; it has been a bane to a lot of companies for a long time.
Both companies I have worked for recently have adopted formal procedures for dealing with repetitive / inappropriate amounts of sickness. After 3 instances of absence due sickness an individual is given a one-to-one interview with their line manager. After a further 3 instances of sickness a further interview is held, this time with line manager and also a representative from the HR department. The basis of the interviews is to adjudge whether the individuals work or workplace is contributing to (or to blame for) the sickness, and also to offer support and assistance in the return to work. Should the work prove to be unsuitable for the individual then alternative positions can be offered, or ultimately their contract is terminated!
Whilst dismissing employees for sickness is still fraught with pitfalls, employers are learning to 'work the system' to their advantage. As has been said before, get PSF involved. The last thing you want is a harrassment claim against you.
A lot of civilian organisations are now adopting a far harder approach to casual sickness; it has been a bane to a lot of companies for a long time.
Both companies I have worked for recently have adopted formal procedures for dealing with repetitive / inappropriate amounts of sickness. After 3 instances of absence due sickness an individual is given a one-to-one interview with their line manager. After a further 3 instances of sickness a further interview is held, this time with line manager and also a representative from the HR department. The basis of the interviews is to adjudge whether the individuals work or workplace is contributing to (or to blame for) the sickness, and also to offer support and assistance in the return to work. Should the work prove to be unsuitable for the individual then alternative positions can be offered, or ultimately their contract is terminated!
Whilst dismissing employees for sickness is still fraught with pitfalls, employers are learning to 'work the system' to their advantage. As has been said before, get PSF involved. The last thing you want is a harrassment claim against you.
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Re: People going sick.
This individual is not interested in being part of a team
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Re: People going sick.
Big Tudor
Having just transferred to the civil service let me explain how it works and why there is so much 'sickness' there
I live about 20 miles from work, during the recent snows on the Friday I was at my desk, white stuff descends from the heavens -
Me - Boss, looking at the met it's going to get worse, is it OK if I get off?
Boss - er, well, I'm not sure, em, well, it might thaw, er no
Me- OK, if we do get snowed in will you authorise a hotel for tonight?
Boss - oh, er no, well, go if you think it would be best
Next week
Boss - are you going to take a half day's leave for last Friday?
Now someone pointed out that if I'd said I was sick I could have just gone, spineless line-manager wouldn't have had to make a decision
Last year, similar thing whilst serving out my time at a well-known station that's just about to have a closing-down sale
Boss - Maple, it's snowing like bu@@ery, you're not doing anything that's vital to the defence of the western world, sod off home
Me - are you sure?
Boss - are you still here?
Difference between a good boss and an @rse, also the different cultures - In my experience in the RAF you have to be dieing before being written off, in the 'real world' sickness covers a multitude of sins including incompetent man managers who’ve never heard of ‘duty of care’
Having just transferred to the civil service let me explain how it works and why there is so much 'sickness' there
I live about 20 miles from work, during the recent snows on the Friday I was at my desk, white stuff descends from the heavens -
Me - Boss, looking at the met it's going to get worse, is it OK if I get off?
Boss - er, well, I'm not sure, em, well, it might thaw, er no
Me- OK, if we do get snowed in will you authorise a hotel for tonight?
Boss - oh, er no, well, go if you think it would be best
Next week
Boss - are you going to take a half day's leave for last Friday?
Now someone pointed out that if I'd said I was sick I could have just gone, spineless line-manager wouldn't have had to make a decision
Last year, similar thing whilst serving out my time at a well-known station that's just about to have a closing-down sale
Boss - Maple, it's snowing like bu@@ery, you're not doing anything that's vital to the defence of the western world, sod off home
Me - are you sure?
Boss - are you still here?
Difference between a good boss and an @rse, also the different cultures - In my experience in the RAF you have to be dieing before being written off, in the 'real world' sickness covers a multitude of sins including incompetent man managers who’ve never heard of ‘duty of care’
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Re: People going sick.
Southside
Well said and exactly what I was about to write. He calls himself a SNCO but has he counselled the guy, found out if there are any root causes to his problem? Probably not because it is so much easier to label some one with the "not a team player" or the old "Hasn't risen to the challenge" tags. If you get a sick chit signed off by an MO that's the end of the matter and putting the WO Medic on the spot is outrageous. Even in the RAF there is such a thing as Medical In Confidence!
Good grief Mr Whippy should be ashamed of himself, admitting defeat on a public forum. What kind of rubbish is the GST 2 factory turning out these days??
What trade are you in Mr Whippy?
Well said and exactly what I was about to write. He calls himself a SNCO but has he counselled the guy, found out if there are any root causes to his problem? Probably not because it is so much easier to label some one with the "not a team player" or the old "Hasn't risen to the challenge" tags. If you get a sick chit signed off by an MO that's the end of the matter and putting the WO Medic on the spot is outrageous. Even in the RAF there is such a thing as Medical In Confidence!
Good grief Mr Whippy should be ashamed of himself, admitting defeat on a public forum. What kind of rubbish is the GST 2 factory turning out these days??
What trade are you in Mr Whippy?
Re: People going sick.
SS & Gorilla.
I could understand it if MrW had said his entire section was swinging the lead but he clearly stated he has only 1 "case" You both clearly have no idea as to his current situation, I don't need to know his trade I know his situation, and just how hard it is to "council" someone who is quite simply not interested.
You cannot turn these people round with a damn good bit of councelling it is a long and frankly boring process......but if you never tell someone they're going wrong how will they ever know? hence my suggestion for a paperwork trail.
I could understand it if MrW had said his entire section was swinging the lead but he clearly stated he has only 1 "case" You both clearly have no idea as to his current situation, I don't need to know his trade I know his situation, and just how hard it is to "council" someone who is quite simply not interested.
You cannot turn these people round with a damn good bit of councelling it is a long and frankly boring process......but if you never tell someone they're going wrong how will they ever know? hence my suggestion for a paperwork trail.
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Re: People going sick.
Originally Posted by southside
Good god man....you say you are a SNCO....then bloomin act like one. Have you encouraged him to be part of the team...(Remember "The team works"). Have you interviewed him, made him feel part of the team ? Or...have you acted like a complete and utter weak kneeded SNCO and ostrasised him from your unit. Get a grip of your section and do what your paid to do - Lead your men.
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Re: People going sick.
New Year, same old Southside !
Bloke comes on, with a reasonable request for some advice from the forum, unfortunately, you're online !
Still learning the ropes in the Air Cadets are you Southside ?
SH
Bloke comes on, with a reasonable request for some advice from the forum, unfortunately, you're online !
Still learning the ropes in the Air Cadets are you Southside ?
SH
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Re: People going sick.
Insty
I agree with your paper trail idea and that should be natural to any SNCO wishing to protect his 6, however and I will apologise if proven wrong, Wippy seems to be washing his hands of this lad. Statements like "Now, I know the individual is taking the ****." give me the impression that he has absolutely NO idea what might be going on in his life! Med Centres, despite civilianisation are not stupid, they keep records etc and I know from my own experience that they will lie to protect a patients confidentiality. And of course Wippy may only have 1 subordinate to deal with!!
I agree with your paper trail idea and that should be natural to any SNCO wishing to protect his 6, however and I will apologise if proven wrong, Wippy seems to be washing his hands of this lad. Statements like "Now, I know the individual is taking the ****." give me the impression that he has absolutely NO idea what might be going on in his life! Med Centres, despite civilianisation are not stupid, they keep records etc and I know from my own experience that they will lie to protect a patients confidentiality. And of course Wippy may only have 1 subordinate to deal with!!
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Re: People going sick.
southside & The Gorilla
The search facility is down, so I can't investigate why you have made such stupid comments. My insults will have to wait.
You are clueless.
The search facility is down, so I can't investigate why you have made such stupid comments. My insults will have to wait.
You are clueless.