Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
Since my days (three decades ago) as a Lightning avionics man, I've always wondered about the DataLink facility, and whether it was EVER used--can anyone enlighten?
For the unaware, F3's and, I think, F6's were wired and boxed up for this frightening system, which ostensibly enabled ground controllers to physically take control of the aircraft and guide it towards AI range. Did anyone trust the drivers, I ask myself........
Anyway, I remember meeting an Elliott Automation engineer (they built the avionics) who gleefully informed me that (a) Elliott's had charged the MOD something like £30m for the system--a huge amount in the early 60's--and (b) when it was tested it almost ripped the wings off the test aircraft.
On all of the aircraft in the fleet, the avionics boxes and cabling were still in place, in the starboard "elephant ear", but the boxes were empty. This had other benefits, of course, as, returning from Malta and Cyprus detachments I remember that the largest box was capable of holding exactly 800 illicit cigarettes! The riggers were at it too, and bottles of brandy appeared from the wing leading edge panels. A few private chalk malks on the tyres alerted partners in crime back at Wattisham........ Anyway, I digress.
Do any airframe drivers of the F1-F3 days recall DataLink? Did it ever work? Was it ever operational?
For the unaware, F3's and, I think, F6's were wired and boxed up for this frightening system, which ostensibly enabled ground controllers to physically take control of the aircraft and guide it towards AI range. Did anyone trust the drivers, I ask myself........
Anyway, I remember meeting an Elliott Automation engineer (they built the avionics) who gleefully informed me that (a) Elliott's had charged the MOD something like £30m for the system--a huge amount in the early 60's--and (b) when it was tested it almost ripped the wings off the test aircraft.
On all of the aircraft in the fleet, the avionics boxes and cabling were still in place, in the starboard "elephant ear", but the boxes were empty. This had other benefits, of course, as, returning from Malta and Cyprus detachments I remember that the largest box was capable of holding exactly 800 illicit cigarettes! The riggers were at it too, and bottles of brandy appeared from the wing leading edge panels. A few private chalk malks on the tyres alerted partners in crime back at Wattisham........ Anyway, I digress.
Do any airframe drivers of the F1-F3 days recall DataLink? Did it ever work? Was it ever operational?
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
I worked with Lightnings for many years as an FC. Not aware of any data links. Not sure about physically taking control of the aircraft....sounds like great fun but not sure its true...I stand by to be corrected. No point in a traditional data link anyway. They were not airborne long enough to switch the bloody thing on.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Road to Nowhere
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
I am pleased to say that the Lightning had just left service when I qualified as an IC (though I still had to learn the 90/120/150/180 TCA PIs). I seem to recall being taught that the Grumman F14 had a similar system called Link 4, that the USN had managed to bring into service - but I may just be imagining it. However, I don't know whether it ever came into serious use.
The other thing I always wondered was what the point was. OK, I accept that in conditions of extreme EW, the GCI info might not have been able to get through, but I am not sure the 'Link' would have been more successful, and jamming it whilst active would presumably have been catastrophic.
STH
The other thing I always wondered was what the point was. OK, I accept that in conditions of extreme EW, the GCI info might not have been able to get through, but I am not sure the 'Link' would have been more successful, and jamming it whilst active would presumably have been catastrophic.
STH
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
I don't think it went beyond trial stages. I recall it was to fit in the bit behind the canopy? Anything that could have made a 180x25 'unknown' easier would have been allright with me.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
It was tested on the sqn.
We were target for a Lightning on fighter affil. I think they used the data link in a manual reversion mode. The 'kit' came up with the numbers and the FC told the pilot what to do. The pilot then flew the numbers.
Bit like painting by numbers. He flew headings, set speeds and initiated a climb at all the points called by the FC. They didn't actually use an autopilot link.
I could, if pressed, search my log book for a probable date, anyway it was probably in 1965 or possibly 1966.
I don't recall if the intercept worked. Most of our FAs finishe dup in a steep turning fight. I seem to recall that this one was easy
We were target for a Lightning on fighter affil. I think they used the data link in a manual reversion mode. The 'kit' came up with the numbers and the FC told the pilot what to do. The pilot then flew the numbers.
Bit like painting by numbers. He flew headings, set speeds and initiated a climb at all the points called by the FC. They didn't actually use an autopilot link.
I could, if pressed, search my log book for a probable date, anyway it was probably in 1965 or possibly 1966.
I don't recall if the intercept worked. Most of our FAs finishe dup in a steep turning fight. I seem to recall that this one was easy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
Aah, thankyou Pontius. At least it was partly used.
Re. the autopilot connection--it was actually designed to connect through, as the DataLink computer fed the Flight Control Computer, so in theory it was a complete system. My Elliott's engineer also said that Roland Beaumont absolutely refused to have anything to do with it.......wise man.
Re. the autopilot connection--it was actually designed to connect through, as the DataLink computer fed the Flight Control Computer, so in theory it was a complete system. My Elliott's engineer also said that Roland Beaumont absolutely refused to have anything to do with it.......wise man.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: South Central UK
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
Notwithstanding Pontious' recollection, the Data Link System never went live on Sqn aircraft. There was quite a lot of 'computer controlled' sorties flown under 1 ACC when it was first invented. That was a laugh!
"Accelerate to M1.4"
"Roger"
15 secs later - literally!
"Decelerate to M 0.8"
and so it went on.
The lack of Data Link was beneficial in that a full aircrew bag could be carried on the empty Data Link tray in the bay behind the cockpit. No lost luggage for Lightning pilots.
lm
"Accelerate to M1.4"
"Roger"
15 secs later - literally!
"Decelerate to M 0.8"
and so it went on.
The lack of Data Link was beneficial in that a full aircrew bag could be carried on the empty Data Link tray in the bay behind the cockpit. No lost luggage for Lightning pilots.
lm
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: N London
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
From what I recall from 2 S of TT the data was due to be transmitted via the impressivly reliable ;o) PTR 175 or ARC 52. They both had a D/L selection on the control panel which was enabled via another switch mounted on the side of the control box. This could only be selected when the control panel was removed from its normal location.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
Lightning mate, what you said is what I was alluding to. The old grey matter recalled a couple of details of the intercept - accelerate M1.6 - climb FL400.
Absolutely perfect for a 180 on a subsonic high flyer.
Absolutely perfect for a 180 on a subsonic high flyer.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
The problem, of course, was not with the data link, but the programme at the other end. Tinsmith/SLEWC needed a minimum of 80nm splits with ideal set-ups. Under 80nm it would demand the fighter turn away from the target and accelerate up to M1.8 to achieve the required range, then a 180 turn and back down to M0.8 etc. Absolutely useless. Controllers used to ignore the commands and eyeball headings/speeds/turns to get the fighter under the sim track. It also needed two controllers to be able track the aircraft and feed the computer in order to do 3 intercepts, whilst any decent controller, alone, could do two. Within a very short time it was only used to fulfill the Gp requirement for monthly stats - on sim.
Last edited by ORAC; 12th Jan 2006 at 10:28.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: South Central UK
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
Ahh memories stirred - Tinsmith/SLEWC, 525/625 profiles etc. Great fun at Wattisham field in the late 1960s, providing you could hang on to your sense of humour and the Boss did not notice you had only logged a 25 min sortie. In those days, the Chinagraph Monthly Hours line was GOD!!
I remember we all decanted to Cyprus at one stage for an Adex and it required almost the entire effort of the Albert Force to move 1 ACC to Epi Bay Headland. It then took most of the detachment period to get the systems running, just in time to go home, so bring on all the Alberts again!
lm
I remember we all decanted to Cyprus at one stage for an Adex and it required almost the entire effort of the Albert Force to move 1 ACC to Epi Bay Headland. It then took most of the detachment period to get the systems running, just in time to go home, so bring on all the Alberts again!
lm
TAC Int Bloke
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 975
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Anyone remember Lightning DataLink?
So that's why there was a PTR175 and ARC 52 set on the middle bridge in the old Neat ops room! Data linking on SLEWC? Where they mad? And we took the p*** out of the Russians for TIEBACK
STH - SPROG!
STH - SPROG!
