F15 pilots - world's best? - discuss.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
ORAC, I think you are confusing threads. We are talking fighters not crashes. The AAIB report, I guess, refers to the issue of 2 single seat jets flying into the ground.
The T-bag-F15E incident, as Beags pointed out was actually two pair of single seaters too.
The issue then is would the additional supercargo have made a difference? True there have been incidents of aircraft with supercargo flying into the ground as indeed there have of Jaguars before they got the INAS fixed.
The T-bag-F15E incident, as Beags pointed out was actually two pair of single seaters too.
The issue then is would the additional supercargo have made a difference? True there have been incidents of aircraft with supercargo flying into the ground as indeed there have of Jaguars before they got the INAS fixed.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Nope, it refers to two, twin seat, F-15Es having an airprox on a diversion from LK to VY. Reading before posting helps prevent embarrassment....
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So, this morning we here of an airmiss caused by 2 x USAF F15's. as a result of poor R/T and lack of knowledge of UK ATC proceedures by the aircrew. Our ATC friends are not absolved either. An earlier thread talks of 2 guys killed when they flew into a stuffed cloud. Again poor proceedures by the USAF aircrew and confusion by our ATC. A little while ago we hear about USAF tanking over Norwich, and the ATC/FC not sure if this is allowed or not.
This is starting to cause be some unease as we are finding holes in our knowledge, training and professionalism. (provocative statement I know). Is this being picked up by the "big wheels" and is anything being done.
I am sure I will be told that an investigation has resulted in improvements, but with respect, I have heard all that guff before. What can be shown to have changed as a result of these events that will result in safer operations in UK airspace?
This is starting to cause be some unease as we are finding holes in our knowledge, training and professionalism. (provocative statement I know). Is this being picked up by the "big wheels" and is anything being done.
I am sure I will be told that an investigation has resulted in improvements, but with respect, I have heard all that guff before. What can be shown to have changed as a result of these events that will result in safer operations in UK airspace?
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What a stupid discussion. Did you ever meet any fighter pilot of any nationality that didn't think they were "the best?" Also, training exercises aren't there to prove who's "best." They're for training. Actual combat operations would be quite different and may employ tactics, techniques, and equipment that is not used in training exercises.
Give it a rest guys. The US bashing, while somewhat satisfying for some people, is very trite and tiresome by now. Think of something original and fresh for a change.
Give it a rest guys. The US bashing, while somewhat satisfying for some people, is very trite and tiresome by now. Think of something original and fresh for a change.
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Not sure about F15 jocks but (and as a Lynx puke it pains me to say this) without doubt the best RW jocks are the Chinook boys - especially those mad fellas at 7sqn. Very punchy, professional and slick. Their only drawvback is their social skills.
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I would hazard a guess that, the main problem here - is lack of airspace education given to the US Crews that arrive in the UK.
We have some very crowded and complicated airspace for them to navigate and they obviously need some help here!
It would appear that reading between the lines, that they used to get a thorough briefing from the RAF in years gone by to indicate the differences in UK airspace and how the RIS / RAS effect their flights compared to that they were used to in the USA.
Bring that briefing and education back guys.. It's got to be worthwhile and will help them out!
However, with regard to the latest airmiss; it would appear that there were many links in the chain that lead to a major cock-up.. Lakenheath ATC caused a further problem with the lie about no delay and did not pass full details of squawk and Flt Level restriction from Lon Mil.
When the Flight lead decided to divert he should have positively taken back the Flight lead role and have his wingman understand that and act as a flight and not two singletons / loose flight.
All this time, what were the Wso rear seater crew doing to help? It appears they were just along for the ride! It doesn't appear that they were helping much. Do they not have a role in helping monitor the flight and assist the pilot with Nav etc. Obviously they could be head down and use the F-15Es kit to help the situation.
Finally, was RAF Valley really the nearest suitable diversion airfield for these two aircraft?
Perhaps, with the rapid closure of RAF bases around the country; suitable diversion airfields are becoming very few and far between!
We have some very crowded and complicated airspace for them to navigate and they obviously need some help here!
It would appear that reading between the lines, that they used to get a thorough briefing from the RAF in years gone by to indicate the differences in UK airspace and how the RIS / RAS effect their flights compared to that they were used to in the USA.
Bring that briefing and education back guys.. It's got to be worthwhile and will help them out!
However, with regard to the latest airmiss; it would appear that there were many links in the chain that lead to a major cock-up.. Lakenheath ATC caused a further problem with the lie about no delay and did not pass full details of squawk and Flt Level restriction from Lon Mil.
When the Flight lead decided to divert he should have positively taken back the Flight lead role and have his wingman understand that and act as a flight and not two singletons / loose flight.
All this time, what were the Wso rear seater crew doing to help? It appears they were just along for the ride! It doesn't appear that they were helping much. Do they not have a role in helping monitor the flight and assist the pilot with Nav etc. Obviously they could be head down and use the F-15Es kit to help the situation.
Finally, was RAF Valley really the nearest suitable diversion airfield for these two aircraft?
Perhaps, with the rapid closure of RAF bases around the country; suitable diversion airfields are becoming very few and far between!
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Roadtrip
From post one:
"The F-15 pilots, they are the world's best pilots," said Lt. Col. David Krumm, an F-22A instructor pilot. "When you take them flying against anyone else in the world, they are going to wipe the floor with them.
Why not 'discuss' the Col's opinion. Unquestionable is it?
From post one:
"The F-15 pilots, they are the world's best pilots," said Lt. Col. David Krumm, an F-22A instructor pilot. "When you take them flying against anyone else in the world, they are going to wipe the floor with them.
Why not 'discuss' the Col's opinion. Unquestionable is it?
