3 more Apache pilots resign
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3 more Apache pilots resign
Rumour at Shawbury is 3 experienced Apache pilots have resigned.
Is life that bad in the apache world or were these 3 at a natural break point?
will there be slots for more exchanges? I know the NAvy have one, isn't it time the RAF got a look in?
or looking at the exit numbers should i stay away?
Is life that bad in the apache world or were these 3 at a natural break point?
will there be slots for more exchanges? I know the NAvy have one, isn't it time the RAF got a look in?
or looking at the exit numbers should i stay away?
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Crab Beefer, stay away!
I think your source of information is a little bit wrong, cos it's more than three! I am curious about the sincerity of your post.
Are you one of a growing number who like a good old verbal bashing about the Army Apache program?
As a "crab beefer" I assume (might be wrong, I have been wrong before) you a RAF helicopter pilot and QHI, therefore failed fast jet maybe, with a burning desire to something more than just ash and trash.
Bullied at Red 850 by Lynx 5 in the past maybe? To be honest I don't really care.
The people you speak of haven't yet resigned, well maybe one or two have, but not all, and I think you'll find they could all be staying within the Apache program, just as civvies, all of them are at points in there service where it is natural to leave if a better offer comes along.
Why is it the Apache makes the headlines everytime somebody on the program has a good sh1t? Life in the Apache world isn’t bad, there are challenges sure, but what part of the armed forces doesn’t have any challenges right now.
Oh one more thing, the Royal Navy have 2 current Apache pilots to at the moment, one is a QHI who got us all onto and off HMS Ocean without incident. The Royal Navy added to the Attack Helicopter budget when they decided not to buy a Lynx TOW replacement, which is why one of the Attack Aviation Squadrons has a Maritime role. No need for any Crabs thank you!
I think your source of information is a little bit wrong, cos it's more than three! I am curious about the sincerity of your post.
Are you one of a growing number who like a good old verbal bashing about the Army Apache program?
As a "crab beefer" I assume (might be wrong, I have been wrong before) you a RAF helicopter pilot and QHI, therefore failed fast jet maybe, with a burning desire to something more than just ash and trash.
Bullied at Red 850 by Lynx 5 in the past maybe? To be honest I don't really care.
The people you speak of haven't yet resigned, well maybe one or two have, but not all, and I think you'll find they could all be staying within the Apache program, just as civvies, all of them are at points in there service where it is natural to leave if a better offer comes along.
Why is it the Apache makes the headlines everytime somebody on the program has a good sh1t? Life in the Apache world isn’t bad, there are challenges sure, but what part of the armed forces doesn’t have any challenges right now.
Oh one more thing, the Royal Navy have 2 current Apache pilots to at the moment, one is a QHI who got us all onto and off HMS Ocean without incident. The Royal Navy added to the Attack Helicopter budget when they decided not to buy a Lynx TOW replacement, which is why one of the Attack Aviation Squadrons has a Maritime role. No need for any Crabs thank you!
Last edited by AHQHI656SQN; 20th Dec 2005 at 10:39.
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AHQHI656SQN
Strewth! You should have gone into Air Defence with a defensive attitude like that!
It seemed like a genuine enough question to me so why fly straight off the collective?
Sounds like a very sensitive spot was touched there......
But you said "I think your source of information is a little bit wrong, cos it's more than three!"
Followed by "The people you speak of haven't yet resigned, well maybe one or two have"
Make up your mind!
Strewth! You should have gone into Air Defence with a defensive attitude like that!
It seemed like a genuine enough question to me so why fly straight off the collective?
Sounds like a very sensitive spot was touched there......
But you said "I think your source of information is a little bit wrong, cos it's more than three!"
Followed by "The people you speak of haven't yet resigned, well maybe one or two have"
Make up your mind!
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ST, the bottom line is, why does it matter that 3 or more Apache pilots have resigned, how many Puma pilots, or Chinook pilots have resigned? No news really.
A lot more than 3 Apache pilots have resigned, some very senior, some not so senior, every one of em for better offers. As my memory serves me about 11 so far.
Not attitude at all, just miffed every time I someone post a disingenuous thread on here about Apache. Really what does it matter to crab beefer that 3 Apache pilots have resigned? He's nothing to do with Apache, nor could he be. There is more impact on me and those flying the Apache at the moment yet none of us put the post up. We are the ones who have to carry on doing the job, and there are few enough of us as it is.
Merry Christmas.
A lot more than 3 Apache pilots have resigned, some very senior, some not so senior, every one of em for better offers. As my memory serves me about 11 so far.
Not attitude at all, just miffed every time I someone post a disingenuous thread on here about Apache. Really what does it matter to crab beefer that 3 Apache pilots have resigned? He's nothing to do with Apache, nor could he be. There is more impact on me and those flying the Apache at the moment yet none of us put the post up. We are the ones who have to carry on doing the job, and there are few enough of us as it is.
Merry Christmas.
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Tom, maybe it would be better if the crabs had Apache eh?
Cos look at how well they keep hold of the Tornado and Harrier and Hercules and Tristar and Chinook and Puma pilots. None of them leave do they?
Merry Christmas mate.
Cos look at how well they keep hold of the Tornado and Harrier and Hercules and Tristar and Chinook and Puma pilots. None of them leave do they?
Merry Christmas mate.
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I do feel sorry for the Apache mates. As any military person will know, there is not a single piece of equipment, from the humble sock to the super-snazzy jet fighter, that has worked as advertised at any stage of its time in service.
You may correct me if I am wrong.
You may correct me if I am wrong.
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As any military person will know, there is not a single piece of equipment, from the humble sock to the super-snazzy jet fighter, that has worked as advertised at any stage of its time in service.
I'm not so sure that's true because I used to enjoy the mulligatawny soup that came in the 10 man ration pack in the 80s and 90s. If I remember correctly it was Menu D, along with Bacon Burgers rather than Bacon Grill for breakfast. Nowt to beat Mulligatawny with Bacon Burger out of your mess tin shortly after you've shaved in it on a crisp winter morning. You can keep your First Class soup & your pretty trolly dollies. Give me a grumpy Squadron Sergeant Major with a pointy pace stick any time. The military can get some things right....
Last edited by Mark IX; 20th Dec 2005 at 20:39.
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What goes around...
We nicked the design for the jerrycan in 1941 from... the Jerries (the clue is in the name).
IIRC, the Spitfire had teething troubles pre-war, the 4 engined Lancaster only came into being because the 2 engined Manchester was a right 'horlicks', Kestrel / Harrier also had a long and difficult birth.
Goes with the territory for any major change programme. All four major change elements need to be sorted:
People
Organisation
Technology
Information
From the outside, AH within 16 AA Bde seems to be a readily deployable asset. We'll find out soon enough next year, I'm sure.
IIRC, the Spitfire had teething troubles pre-war, the 4 engined Lancaster only came into being because the 2 engined Manchester was a right 'horlicks', Kestrel / Harrier also had a long and difficult birth.
Goes with the territory for any major change programme. All four major change elements need to be sorted:
People
Organisation
Technology
Information
From the outside, AH within 16 AA Bde seems to be a readily deployable asset. We'll find out soon enough next year, I'm sure.
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Wow..
All I wanted to know was should I ask to do an exchange tour. I have subsequently been told that there are 4 Apache QHIs resigned amongst others including some Apache pilots in staff jobs. I would be happy doing a line shag slot but would be equally keen to fill a QHI slot.
Having said all that I am now worried as I have obviuosly have hit a bit of a nerve. Glad the RN doing well, I do like to think the RAF would be able to impart something to the development of this great aircraft, maybe you disagree.
All I wanted to know was should I ask to do an exchange tour. I have subsequently been told that there are 4 Apache QHIs resigned amongst others including some Apache pilots in staff jobs. I would be happy doing a line shag slot but would be equally keen to fill a QHI slot.
Having said all that I am now worried as I have obviuosly have hit a bit of a nerve. Glad the RN doing well, I do like to think the RAF would be able to impart something to the development of this great aircraft, maybe you disagree.
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Crab Beefer, you havent exactly hit a raw nerve, so one person bites, not surprisingly as you lot continually bait such people. Im sure AHQHI is feeling a little bit miffed after countless bouts of said sarcasm. But his bite doesnt constitute a landslide vitory against AH does it?
I agree with you however that maybe an exchange RAF Pilot might be worthwhile, but will you find an NCO Pilot!
Happy Christmas
Muttley out
I agree with you however that maybe an exchange RAF Pilot might be worthwhile, but will you find an NCO Pilot!
Happy Christmas
Muttley out
Last edited by mutleyfour; 21st Dec 2005 at 07:25.
Arctic socks, can't beat them. The roll mat has never let me down either. In fact the only thing that has let me down is my own expectations of kit as it is introduced.
(Is that irony, sarcacm, satire or wit? Please could an educated person advise. Crab Beefer perhaps?)
(Is that irony, sarcacm, satire or wit? Please could an educated person advise. Crab Beefer perhaps?)
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I am sure the RAF would add to the apache program.
Should he be FJ or rotary?
CB - as SQHI656 says of those that are going, some will stay linked to the program so no huge loss.
Suggest you speak to your manning branch and put in a request to do exchange.
Should he be FJ or rotary?
CB - as SQHI656 says of those that are going, some will stay linked to the program so no huge loss.
Suggest you speak to your manning branch and put in a request to do exchange.
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All us blue-jobs would love a go of the Apache - Very capable and, it has to be said, cool as ****. I'm sure with our limited experience of helo ops and weapon delivery, we could through hard work and sending only the very best candidates, contribute in some small way. It would appear that we need to work on our bitterness and bait-taking abilities though, since this is obviously part of the job....
Just kidding, chaps - put down your dark visors and go and impress some girls and have a happy christmas too!
Just kidding, chaps - put down your dark visors and go and impress some girls and have a happy christmas too!
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SarMonkey,
Now now my dear chap - no need to add to add to the melee! Although it grieves me to admit, Front Seater is actually right - and although a humble civvie I know that us light blue bretheren have not actually got anything endorsed by our airships and so what do they (Air Component) actually want Apache to do for us?
We have not included or requested them in any JFACC orbat, where as the JFMCC and JFLCC have and have the associated endorsed doctrine to back it up.
As you well know in a cash strapped MoD, unless it is endorsed there is no requirement, no requirement then no funding and with out funding there is no capability. All of the TLT, SAXON SHIELD, WICKHAM WARRIOR stuff is all done by mates, for mates through the back door and not through any ATO/ATM tasking from a CAOC.
So it has absolutely nothing to do with experience in helo ops or weapon delivery skills - as although I am sure there is experience out there it appears that the Pongos are doing a pretty good job at training their own QWIs and Weapon Instructors. As to the remainder of the Air Component stuff, again just before I left I observed the AH EAGLE STRIKE exercise where it was pleasing to see the brown jobs fully up to speed on COMAO, FRA, DCA, OCA blah blah and more to the point willing to listen to the SH guys during the planning process - now that is a step change from the old Army way of doing business!
And ultimately, regardless of the hot air about who should fly it (done to death in so many other threads, so please not start it here!) the bottom line with the Lynx Fleet being reduced, Gazelles joining history and according to the press releases only 48 frontline AH, then every single seat in any Army aircraft is high value for their own Corps and future career progressions.
But as I have always said on numerous occasions, in this resource and cash strapped MoD lets stop party politicking for individual Service gains and why not just accept the inevitable and stop faffing and having a protracted cuffuffle and go Joint - properly and not in the half baked attempt that it currently is.
Now now my dear chap - no need to add to add to the melee! Although it grieves me to admit, Front Seater is actually right - and although a humble civvie I know that us light blue bretheren have not actually got anything endorsed by our airships and so what do they (Air Component) actually want Apache to do for us?
We have not included or requested them in any JFACC orbat, where as the JFMCC and JFLCC have and have the associated endorsed doctrine to back it up.
As you well know in a cash strapped MoD, unless it is endorsed there is no requirement, no requirement then no funding and with out funding there is no capability. All of the TLT, SAXON SHIELD, WICKHAM WARRIOR stuff is all done by mates, for mates through the back door and not through any ATO/ATM tasking from a CAOC.
So it has absolutely nothing to do with experience in helo ops or weapon delivery skills - as although I am sure there is experience out there it appears that the Pongos are doing a pretty good job at training their own QWIs and Weapon Instructors. As to the remainder of the Air Component stuff, again just before I left I observed the AH EAGLE STRIKE exercise where it was pleasing to see the brown jobs fully up to speed on COMAO, FRA, DCA, OCA blah blah and more to the point willing to listen to the SH guys during the planning process - now that is a step change from the old Army way of doing business!
And ultimately, regardless of the hot air about who should fly it (done to death in so many other threads, so please not start it here!) the bottom line with the Lynx Fleet being reduced, Gazelles joining history and according to the press releases only 48 frontline AH, then every single seat in any Army aircraft is high value for their own Corps and future career progressions.
But as I have always said on numerous occasions, in this resource and cash strapped MoD lets stop party politicking for individual Service gains and why not just accept the inevitable and stop faffing and having a protracted cuffuffle and go Joint - properly and not in the half baked attempt that it currently is.