The Few
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From: In my hammock
The Few
Hollywood is in production of one of next year's blockbusters. Not content with the USA cracking the enigma code and winning the Second World War, The Few will tell the story of how the US won the Battle of Britain with a handful of all-American heroes...
Cynacism aside, Tom Cruise is cast as Billy Fiske, an American who flew Hurricanes with the RAF during the Battle. He was also an Olympic gold medalist, driving the US bobsled at the 1928 Winter Games, aged 16. He died in August 1940 after crash landing at Tangmere.
The Few
Looks like the film will be based on a book by Alex Kershaw, an American writer. Let's hope that they tell the story with the respect and perspective that it deserves.
One thing's certain, it'll never match the 1969 'Battle of Britain':
"But the essential arithmetic is that our young men will have to shoot down their young men at the rate of four to one, if we're to keep pace at all."
Cynacism aside, Tom Cruise is cast as Billy Fiske, an American who flew Hurricanes with the RAF during the Battle. He was also an Olympic gold medalist, driving the US bobsled at the 1928 Winter Games, aged 16. He died in August 1940 after crash landing at Tangmere.
The Few
Looks like the film will be based on a book by Alex Kershaw, an American writer. Let's hope that they tell the story with the respect and perspective that it deserves.
One thing's certain, it'll never match the 1969 'Battle of Britain':
"But the essential arithmetic is that our young men will have to shoot down their young men at the rate of four to one, if we're to keep pace at all."
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
But don't forget or denigrate the man.........
Billy Fiske
In the south-east corner of Boxgrove graveyard in Sussex, England, there is a fine headstone to the memory of Pilot Officer Billy Fiske. On either side of his grave lie two soldiers, a Sapper in the Royal Engineers and a Corporal in the East Lancashire Regiment. Fiske's grave is distinguished by a small Stars and Stripes flag. This was the man whom Lt Col J T C Moore-Brabazon (later Lord Brabazon of Tara) honoured with the words in a newspaper tribute, "We thank America for sending us the perfect sportsman. Many of us would have given our lives for Billy."
So who was Billy Fiske, and why is he buried in Boxgrove churchyard, and what made him so special that on the 4th July (Independence Day) 1941 a tablet in his honour was unveiled in the crypt of St. Paul's Cathedral? At the unveiling, Sir Archibald Sinclair, Secretary of State for Air, said "Here was a young man for whom life held much. Under no kind of compulsion he came to fight for Britain. He came and he fought, and he died." As simple as that.
In September 1939, more than two years before America entered the War, Billy Fiske, an American citizen, joined the Royal Air force, pledging his life and loyalty to the King, George VI. At Tangmere, nearly a year later, aged 29, he redeemed that pledge. In those 29 years, Fiske, the first American serviceman in the RAF to lose his life in action, had always lived life to the full. He died a hero's death, surely the way he would have wanted to die, fighting the enemy in the form of a patrol of Junkers 87s about 12,000 feet above the Sussex countryside, at the controls of a Hurricane P3358.
Fiske was born on 4 June 1911 in Brooklyn, New York, the son of a wealthy banking family whose ancestors had gone to America from Suffolk in the seventeenth century. He attended school in Chicago and followed his family to France in 1924. He went to Trinity Hall, Cambridge in 1928 where he read Economics and History. Billy packed a lot into the few years between his stay at Trinity Hall and his return to England in 1938 for a spell at the London office of Dillon, Reed & Co, the New York bankers.
He was an accomplished sportsman, well-known on the Cresta run at St Moritz and for many years the unbeaten champion. He led the bobsleigh team for the USA in the Winter Olympics of 1928 at St Moritz, and at the 1932 Winter Olympics at Lake Placid. At this event, he carried the flag for the Americans at the opening ceremonies, presided over by Governor Franklin D Roosevelt of New York. He was invited, but declined to lead the bobsleigh team in the 1936 Winter Olympics. The Billy Fiske trophy is named for him, the youngest Gold Medal winner, at the age of 16, in the sport.
He was also a keen golfer, and at Cambridge and Mildenhall he became a well-known figure driving to the golf course at high speed on the long straight roads, in his 4.5 litre open Bentley, in British racing green, complete with bonnet-strap and projecting supercharger. He also managed to fit in a bit of film making in Tahiti.
He learnt to fly at an aerodrome near London and married Rose, the former Countess of Warwick, at Maidenhead in 1938. She remembers 'the big day when he was allowed to take me in an open two-seater" (aircraft) in a flight to Le Touquet which terminated at Deauville because of an oil leak that spattered over the windscreen and so hindered navigation.
Early in 1939 Billy was recalled to his firm's New York office shortly before England declared war on Germany on 3 September. An English friend, working in New York, Mr W P Clyde, an RAF reservist and a member of 601 (County of London) Auxiliary Air Force Squadron, talked him into sailing back to England with him on the Aquitania on 30 August. In his diary Billy Fiske records that "I believe I can lay claim to being the first US citizen to join the RAF in England after the outbreak of hostilities." He did not realise he was writing his epitaph. He also knew when he sailed from America that, as the regulations stood at the time, "no person, not a British citizen and a son of British citizens, could be eligible for any position whatsoever in the Air Force". So he worked out a plan to pass himself off as a Canadian of Canadian parentage. But, even so, he found that joining the RAF was harder than he anticipated and it was luck and knowing the right people which eventually got him an interview with a high-ranking RAF Officer. We know he was nervous before the interview as he records in his diary that he played a round of golf at Roehampton to give himself a "healthy look". He notes, "Needless to say, for once, I had a quiet Saturday night - I didn't want to have eyes looking like blood-stained oysters the next day."
He passed his interview and full of the joy of life went on to No 10 Elementary Flying Training School, Yatesbury Wiltshire. After Yatesbury, Billy moved to the Flying Training School at Brize Norton, Oxfordshire and with his wife took a small house at nearby Minster Lovell. At Brize Norton on 12 April 1940 he became Acting Pilot Officer Fiske and on 12 July he was posted to No 601 (County of London) Auxiliary Air Force Squadron at Tangmere. This Squadron was variously known as the Legionnaires and the Millionaires Squadron, for it had been at White's Club, St James's in 1924 that Lord Edward Grosvenor selected members of the Club to serve under him in 601. Billy now had one month to live.
At Tangmere there was some apprehension in 601 about taking "this untried American adventurer..." but Billy made no pretensions about his flying skill and was soon accepted. With typical gusto he threw himself into his training and on 20 July he undertook two operational take-offs in quick succession in Hurricane L1951 late in the afternoon. An American radio commentator (possibly Ed Murrow) said in 1942 that Billy Fiske, during his fleeting service with 601 destroyed six enemy aircraft, the first being a Heinkel. Billy enjoyed flying Hurricanes. No doubt the aircraft, with 100 gallons of petrol tucked away in tanks close to the pilot seat and an engine capable of taking it up to 335 mph reminded him of his Bentley. Then came the last flight. On 16 August Tangmere aerodrome was singled out for attack by German dive-bombers. The Operations Record Book of No 601 Squadron records that he took off in Hurricane P3358 at 12.25 pm. Squadron Leader Sir Archibald Hope Bt led the Squadron and they were ordered to patrol over Tangmere at about 12,000 feet. The dive-bombers, Junkers 87s, were seen to cross the coast east of Selsey Bill. When the Stukas, as they were called, started to dive on Tangmere and after several sharp individual combats, known as dog fights, the enemy were eventually chased out over the coast around Pagham Harbour.
When the Hurricanes started to land back at Tangmere, Billy Fiske's Hurricane was seen "to glide over the boundary and land on its belly." The Operations Record Book stated, "Pilot Officer Fiske was seen to land on the aerodrome and his aircraft immediately caught fire. He was taken from the machine but sustained severe burns ..." He was taken to the Royal West Sussex Hospital in Chichester, but died 48 hours later from shock.
The funeral took place on 20 August 1940. As the coffin, covered with the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes, was borne on a bier to Boxgrove Priory Church, the Central Band of the RAF played funeral marches. Overhead, the Battle of Britain raged on. The coffin was borne into the churchyard by six members of the ground staff at Tangmere. Billy's comrades, although they did not land back at Tangmere until late that day, came with him on his last journey to Boxgrove.
Billy Fiske, sportsman, golden boy, fighter pilot, is rightly honoured as the first American airman in British Service to die in World War II. Many Americans followed him. By 1941 there were enough American pilots in the RAF to form the three Eagle Squadrons, Nos 71, 121, and 132.
Text taken from a unsigned leaflet available for sale at Boxgrove Priory. Billy's grave:
Billy Fiske
In the south-east corner of Boxgrove graveyard in Sussex, England, there is a fine headstone to the memory of Pilot Officer Billy Fiske. On either side of his grave lie two soldiers, a Sapper in the Royal Engineers and a Corporal in the East Lancashire Regiment. Fiske's grave is distinguished by a small Stars and Stripes flag. This was the man whom Lt Col J T C Moore-Brabazon (later Lord Brabazon of Tara) honoured with the words in a newspaper tribute, "We thank America for sending us the perfect sportsman. Many of us would have given our lives for Billy."
So who was Billy Fiske, and why is he buried in Boxgrove churchyard, and what made him so special that on the 4th July (Independence Day) 1941 a tablet in his honour was unveiled in the crypt of St. Paul's Cathedral? At the unveiling, Sir Archibald Sinclair, Secretary of State for Air, said "Here was a young man for whom life held much. Under no kind of compulsion he came to fight for Britain. He came and he fought, and he died." As simple as that.
In September 1939, more than two years before America entered the War, Billy Fiske, an American citizen, joined the Royal Air force, pledging his life and loyalty to the King, George VI. At Tangmere, nearly a year later, aged 29, he redeemed that pledge. In those 29 years, Fiske, the first American serviceman in the RAF to lose his life in action, had always lived life to the full. He died a hero's death, surely the way he would have wanted to die, fighting the enemy in the form of a patrol of Junkers 87s about 12,000 feet above the Sussex countryside, at the controls of a Hurricane P3358.
Fiske was born on 4 June 1911 in Brooklyn, New York, the son of a wealthy banking family whose ancestors had gone to America from Suffolk in the seventeenth century. He attended school in Chicago and followed his family to France in 1924. He went to Trinity Hall, Cambridge in 1928 where he read Economics and History. Billy packed a lot into the few years between his stay at Trinity Hall and his return to England in 1938 for a spell at the London office of Dillon, Reed & Co, the New York bankers.
He was an accomplished sportsman, well-known on the Cresta run at St Moritz and for many years the unbeaten champion. He led the bobsleigh team for the USA in the Winter Olympics of 1928 at St Moritz, and at the 1932 Winter Olympics at Lake Placid. At this event, he carried the flag for the Americans at the opening ceremonies, presided over by Governor Franklin D Roosevelt of New York. He was invited, but declined to lead the bobsleigh team in the 1936 Winter Olympics. The Billy Fiske trophy is named for him, the youngest Gold Medal winner, at the age of 16, in the sport.
He was also a keen golfer, and at Cambridge and Mildenhall he became a well-known figure driving to the golf course at high speed on the long straight roads, in his 4.5 litre open Bentley, in British racing green, complete with bonnet-strap and projecting supercharger. He also managed to fit in a bit of film making in Tahiti.
He learnt to fly at an aerodrome near London and married Rose, the former Countess of Warwick, at Maidenhead in 1938. She remembers 'the big day when he was allowed to take me in an open two-seater" (aircraft) in a flight to Le Touquet which terminated at Deauville because of an oil leak that spattered over the windscreen and so hindered navigation.
Early in 1939 Billy was recalled to his firm's New York office shortly before England declared war on Germany on 3 September. An English friend, working in New York, Mr W P Clyde, an RAF reservist and a member of 601 (County of London) Auxiliary Air Force Squadron, talked him into sailing back to England with him on the Aquitania on 30 August. In his diary Billy Fiske records that "I believe I can lay claim to being the first US citizen to join the RAF in England after the outbreak of hostilities." He did not realise he was writing his epitaph. He also knew when he sailed from America that, as the regulations stood at the time, "no person, not a British citizen and a son of British citizens, could be eligible for any position whatsoever in the Air Force". So he worked out a plan to pass himself off as a Canadian of Canadian parentage. But, even so, he found that joining the RAF was harder than he anticipated and it was luck and knowing the right people which eventually got him an interview with a high-ranking RAF Officer. We know he was nervous before the interview as he records in his diary that he played a round of golf at Roehampton to give himself a "healthy look". He notes, "Needless to say, for once, I had a quiet Saturday night - I didn't want to have eyes looking like blood-stained oysters the next day."
He passed his interview and full of the joy of life went on to No 10 Elementary Flying Training School, Yatesbury Wiltshire. After Yatesbury, Billy moved to the Flying Training School at Brize Norton, Oxfordshire and with his wife took a small house at nearby Minster Lovell. At Brize Norton on 12 April 1940 he became Acting Pilot Officer Fiske and on 12 July he was posted to No 601 (County of London) Auxiliary Air Force Squadron at Tangmere. This Squadron was variously known as the Legionnaires and the Millionaires Squadron, for it had been at White's Club, St James's in 1924 that Lord Edward Grosvenor selected members of the Club to serve under him in 601. Billy now had one month to live.
At Tangmere there was some apprehension in 601 about taking "this untried American adventurer..." but Billy made no pretensions about his flying skill and was soon accepted. With typical gusto he threw himself into his training and on 20 July he undertook two operational take-offs in quick succession in Hurricane L1951 late in the afternoon. An American radio commentator (possibly Ed Murrow) said in 1942 that Billy Fiske, during his fleeting service with 601 destroyed six enemy aircraft, the first being a Heinkel. Billy enjoyed flying Hurricanes. No doubt the aircraft, with 100 gallons of petrol tucked away in tanks close to the pilot seat and an engine capable of taking it up to 335 mph reminded him of his Bentley. Then came the last flight. On 16 August Tangmere aerodrome was singled out for attack by German dive-bombers. The Operations Record Book of No 601 Squadron records that he took off in Hurricane P3358 at 12.25 pm. Squadron Leader Sir Archibald Hope Bt led the Squadron and they were ordered to patrol over Tangmere at about 12,000 feet. The dive-bombers, Junkers 87s, were seen to cross the coast east of Selsey Bill. When the Stukas, as they were called, started to dive on Tangmere and after several sharp individual combats, known as dog fights, the enemy were eventually chased out over the coast around Pagham Harbour.
When the Hurricanes started to land back at Tangmere, Billy Fiske's Hurricane was seen "to glide over the boundary and land on its belly." The Operations Record Book stated, "Pilot Officer Fiske was seen to land on the aerodrome and his aircraft immediately caught fire. He was taken from the machine but sustained severe burns ..." He was taken to the Royal West Sussex Hospital in Chichester, but died 48 hours later from shock.
The funeral took place on 20 August 1940. As the coffin, covered with the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes, was borne on a bier to Boxgrove Priory Church, the Central Band of the RAF played funeral marches. Overhead, the Battle of Britain raged on. The coffin was borne into the churchyard by six members of the ground staff at Tangmere. Billy's comrades, although they did not land back at Tangmere until late that day, came with him on his last journey to Boxgrove.
Billy Fiske, sportsman, golden boy, fighter pilot, is rightly honoured as the first American airman in British Service to die in World War II. Many Americans followed him. By 1941 there were enough American pilots in the RAF to form the three Eagle Squadrons, Nos 71, 121, and 132.
Text taken from a unsigned leaflet available for sale at Boxgrove Priory. Billy's grave:
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From: ooop north
On a similar subject, apparently the film buffs want to remake the dambusters. My problem with both of these remakes is... how whould we improve 1954 footage of lancs practicing the raid over the lakes? (ladybower etc) and what would the pc brigade of 2005 think of the name of Gibsons dog (of course the codeword for the Mohne breach)? I'm for historical accuracy,and the original films are classics.
As an aside, the americans that fought in ww2 prior to 1941 deserve recognition on both sides of the pond. Gentlemen I salute you all.
As an aside, the americans that fought in ww2 prior to 1941 deserve recognition on both sides of the pond. Gentlemen I salute you all.
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I, too, hope Hollywood doesn't overhype the US contribution to the Battle of Britain, but as they are out to make a buck, I suspect they will.
On the positive side, I hope to see some good flying scenes, preferably using real aircraft, but CGI could be done well.
to all who took it and gave it back even more!
On the positive side, I hope to see some good flying scenes, preferably using real aircraft, but CGI could be done well.
to all who took it and gave it back even more!
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From: France 46
With reference to the Dambusters, I remember reading in the newspapers in the 50's that Richard Todd walked out of the Premiere of the film in the USA because the American distributers had grafted B 17's alongside the Lancasters in the attack sequences.
For those that do not know; the first ENIGMA machine was captured by HMS Bulldog some 6 months before the USA entered WW2 and U571 was sunk by a Sunderland of the RAAF.
For those that do not know; the first ENIGMA machine was captured by HMS Bulldog some 6 months before the USA entered WW2 and U571 was sunk by a Sunderland of the RAAF.
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From: Downeast
Caza,
There were other nations and people involved in the Enigma business...please do give credit where credit is due. Some of them are even British too.
Enigma and Ultra- the Cypher War
It would not be until some thirty years after the end of World War II and the Battle of the Atlantic that details of the vital role played by Allied code-breakers began to be revealed.
The German "Enigma" machine was initially developed after World War I as a commercial encrypting device, but the military were quick to recognise its value, and developed it for their own uses.
With millions of possible code variations, the German High Command remained convinced until the end of the war that "Enigma" was unbreakable, and indeed, with the limited technology then available to Allied code-breakers, this confidence might have have been well-placed, had it not been for a series of mistakes committed by the Germans themselves.
The first "leak" came in 1931, when a German Defence Ministry official, Hans Thilo Schmidt, sold some manuals to French Intelligence. Neither Britain nor France recognised the significance of the material which Schmidt continued to sell them, and such progress as there was in the inter-war years in breaking "Enigma" was largely the work of the Polish Intelligence services, which had obtained an "Enigma" machine in 1929. They developed a type of primitive computer, known as a "Bomby", which had some limited success in deciphering "Enigma", although German refinements, such as the addition of extra rotors, prevented any major breakthrough.
In July 1939, as war approached, the Poles revealed their successes to British and French intelligence, and gave them replica Enigma machines.
During World War I Britain's code-breakers had known as ID 25 or more popularly, "Room 40". In 1920 they became part of the Secret Intelligence Service, and a few days before the outbreak of World War II changed their title from the Code and Cypher School to Government Communications Head Quarters. They were based at a large country house, Bletchley Park, whose extensive grounds provided space for the vast collection of huts erected to house a workforce which would eventually number several thousand.
A concerted drive was made to enlist the services of leading mathematicians from British universities, and, thanks largely to the pre-war work of the Poles, the Enigma codes used by the Luftwaffe were fairly quickly and comprehensively broken, as were some of those employed by the Wehrmacht. Those used by the Kriegsmarine, however, proved a much tougher proposition.
Thanks to the refined "bombes" developed by the brilliant mathematician Alan Turing, the first complete "Enigma" message was deciphered in January 1940, and by April some messages were being read within 24 hours of despatch. The intelligence data provided by these and other means were given the codename "Ultra". The first significant breakthrough in reading the Naval Enigma came in February 1940, when, after U-33 was sunk off the Scottish coast, three rotor wheels found in the possession of survivors gave Bletchley a partial insight into the Naval Code. More captured enemy material was needed to progress any further, and this was provided in April 1940, when some "Enigma" documents were found on board the German armed trawler, "Polaris", taken off Norway. This enabled Bletchley to make its first, brief, reading of the Naval code, and provided Turing with material to work towards a more comprehensive breakthrough. Unfortunately, by the time that he made any real progress, new codes had been introduced, rendering messages once more unreadable.
On March 4th 1941, during a Commando raid on the Lofoten Islands off Norway, the Royal Navy captured the German trawler "Krebs", along with two "Enigma" machines and the current settings for use in home waters. This allowed another partial breakthrough, allowing some messages to be read. Donitz, whilst concerned by increased British naval successes, was assured by his cypher experts that "Enigma" was unbreakable, and tended to suspect that the problem was due to increasingly effective tracking by means of HF/DF signals.
It was in the spring of 1941 that Britain made an important breakthrough in the battle for "Enigma". Harry Hinsley, one of the Bletchley codebreakers, realised that the network of German weather and supply ships currently operating in the Atlantic, would carry code information. The problem lay in capturing some of these without betraying to the enemy exactly what was going on.On May 7th, in a highly secret operation, Royal Navy ships intercepted and captured the weather ship "Munchen", seizing the code books to be used in June.
Two days later, in one of the most dramatic episodes of the war at sea, depth charges fired by British destroyers forced to the surface U-110, whose commander, Lemp, had sunk the liner "Athenia" on the opening day of the war. Believing his vessel to be sinking, Lemp failed to destroy either his "Enigma" machine or its codes. Whilst sailors opened up on the U-boat crew with rifles and machine guns to panic them, and prevent any returning below deck, HMS "Bulldog" closed in and boarded U-110. Both machine and codes were seized. Lemp was not among the survivors of the U-boat crew, and once again the extent of their success remained a carefully guarded British secret.
The capture of U-110 was not in fact as decisive as sometimes claimed, but it provided useful additional information which would eventually be of considerable help in the breaking of "Enigma".
More significant, in fact, was the capture next month of the German weather ship "Lauenberg", with the keys for June and July. This would enable Bletchley to break the German Home Waters code virtually until the end of the war, normally within 50 hours of transmission.
There were other nations and people involved in the Enigma business...please do give credit where credit is due. Some of them are even British too.
Enigma and Ultra- the Cypher War
It would not be until some thirty years after the end of World War II and the Battle of the Atlantic that details of the vital role played by Allied code-breakers began to be revealed.
The German "Enigma" machine was initially developed after World War I as a commercial encrypting device, but the military were quick to recognise its value, and developed it for their own uses.
With millions of possible code variations, the German High Command remained convinced until the end of the war that "Enigma" was unbreakable, and indeed, with the limited technology then available to Allied code-breakers, this confidence might have have been well-placed, had it not been for a series of mistakes committed by the Germans themselves.
The first "leak" came in 1931, when a German Defence Ministry official, Hans Thilo Schmidt, sold some manuals to French Intelligence. Neither Britain nor France recognised the significance of the material which Schmidt continued to sell them, and such progress as there was in the inter-war years in breaking "Enigma" was largely the work of the Polish Intelligence services, which had obtained an "Enigma" machine in 1929. They developed a type of primitive computer, known as a "Bomby", which had some limited success in deciphering "Enigma", although German refinements, such as the addition of extra rotors, prevented any major breakthrough.
In July 1939, as war approached, the Poles revealed their successes to British and French intelligence, and gave them replica Enigma machines.
During World War I Britain's code-breakers had known as ID 25 or more popularly, "Room 40". In 1920 they became part of the Secret Intelligence Service, and a few days before the outbreak of World War II changed their title from the Code and Cypher School to Government Communications Head Quarters. They were based at a large country house, Bletchley Park, whose extensive grounds provided space for the vast collection of huts erected to house a workforce which would eventually number several thousand.
A concerted drive was made to enlist the services of leading mathematicians from British universities, and, thanks largely to the pre-war work of the Poles, the Enigma codes used by the Luftwaffe were fairly quickly and comprehensively broken, as were some of those employed by the Wehrmacht. Those used by the Kriegsmarine, however, proved a much tougher proposition.
Thanks to the refined "bombes" developed by the brilliant mathematician Alan Turing, the first complete "Enigma" message was deciphered in January 1940, and by April some messages were being read within 24 hours of despatch. The intelligence data provided by these and other means were given the codename "Ultra". The first significant breakthrough in reading the Naval Enigma came in February 1940, when, after U-33 was sunk off the Scottish coast, three rotor wheels found in the possession of survivors gave Bletchley a partial insight into the Naval Code. More captured enemy material was needed to progress any further, and this was provided in April 1940, when some "Enigma" documents were found on board the German armed trawler, "Polaris", taken off Norway. This enabled Bletchley to make its first, brief, reading of the Naval code, and provided Turing with material to work towards a more comprehensive breakthrough. Unfortunately, by the time that he made any real progress, new codes had been introduced, rendering messages once more unreadable.
On March 4th 1941, during a Commando raid on the Lofoten Islands off Norway, the Royal Navy captured the German trawler "Krebs", along with two "Enigma" machines and the current settings for use in home waters. This allowed another partial breakthrough, allowing some messages to be read. Donitz, whilst concerned by increased British naval successes, was assured by his cypher experts that "Enigma" was unbreakable, and tended to suspect that the problem was due to increasingly effective tracking by means of HF/DF signals.
It was in the spring of 1941 that Britain made an important breakthrough in the battle for "Enigma". Harry Hinsley, one of the Bletchley codebreakers, realised that the network of German weather and supply ships currently operating in the Atlantic, would carry code information. The problem lay in capturing some of these without betraying to the enemy exactly what was going on.On May 7th, in a highly secret operation, Royal Navy ships intercepted and captured the weather ship "Munchen", seizing the code books to be used in June.
Two days later, in one of the most dramatic episodes of the war at sea, depth charges fired by British destroyers forced to the surface U-110, whose commander, Lemp, had sunk the liner "Athenia" on the opening day of the war. Believing his vessel to be sinking, Lemp failed to destroy either his "Enigma" machine or its codes. Whilst sailors opened up on the U-boat crew with rifles and machine guns to panic them, and prevent any returning below deck, HMS "Bulldog" closed in and boarded U-110. Both machine and codes were seized. Lemp was not among the survivors of the U-boat crew, and once again the extent of their success remained a carefully guarded British secret.
The capture of U-110 was not in fact as decisive as sometimes claimed, but it provided useful additional information which would eventually be of considerable help in the breaking of "Enigma".
More significant, in fact, was the capture next month of the German weather ship "Lauenberg", with the keys for June and July. This would enable Bletchley to break the German Home Waters code virtually until the end of the war, normally within 50 hours of transmission.
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
No reason why 'The Few' shouldn't be a fair tribute to the life of Billy Fiske.
It can't really be a 'How the US won the Battle of Britain' piece of fiction, because Billy died a long time before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
As for CGI - I really hope not. It is usually exceptionally poor and 'cartoonish' in such films. But hopefully the Confederate...oops, sorry 'Commemorative' Air Force and Kermit Weeks will be able to supply a few aircraft in the US - as well as the historic aircraft associations over here if the film makers know where the UK is.
It can't really be a 'How the US won the Battle of Britain' piece of fiction, because Billy died a long time before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
As for CGI - I really hope not. It is usually exceptionally poor and 'cartoonish' in such films. But hopefully the Confederate...oops, sorry 'Commemorative' Air Force and Kermit Weeks will be able to supply a few aircraft in the US - as well as the historic aircraft associations over here if the film makers know where the UK is.
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From: UK
This one has been 'in the works' for at least the past 3 or 4 years. As far as I can tell from the link posted at the start of this thread, nothing new seems to be happening - the IMBD entry was last updated 16 months ago.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
The Saga of Billy Fiske
A colorful character, Fiske's unusual approach to team wear was eloquently described by Bud Greenspan in his article "He Was Absolutely Fearless" published in Parade Magazine on 12 August 1990: "Always a flamboyant young man, Billy named his sled Satan and outfitted his teammates with yellow turtleneck sweaters. A few days before the competition was to begin, Fiske added another flourish. Each of the five members appeared at a practice session with a single letter sewn to the back of his sweater, spelling out the name SATAN. This was too much for US Olympic officials. After threats of barring the team, Billy agreed to wear the official American Olympic uniform, and to re-christen his sled USA II.........
Looks like his wife's role might be interesting as well....
"Rose Bingham was born on 14 March 1913. She was the daughter of David Cecil Bingham and Lady Rosabelle Millicent St. Clair-Erskine. She married, firstly, Charles Guy Fulke Greville, 7th Earl of Warwick on 11 July 1933, they were divorced in 1938. She married, secondly, P/O. William M. L. Fiske III on 8 September 1938. She married, thirdly, Lt.-Col. Sir John Charles Arthur Digby Lawson, 3rd Bt., they were divorced in 1949. She married, fourthly, Theodore Sheldon Bassett in 1951. She died in 1982.
A colorful character, Fiske's unusual approach to team wear was eloquently described by Bud Greenspan in his article "He Was Absolutely Fearless" published in Parade Magazine on 12 August 1990: "Always a flamboyant young man, Billy named his sled Satan and outfitted his teammates with yellow turtleneck sweaters. A few days before the competition was to begin, Fiske added another flourish. Each of the five members appeared at a practice session with a single letter sewn to the back of his sweater, spelling out the name SATAN. This was too much for US Olympic officials. After threats of barring the team, Billy agreed to wear the official American Olympic uniform, and to re-christen his sled USA II.........
Looks like his wife's role might be interesting as well....
"Rose Bingham was born on 14 March 1913. She was the daughter of David Cecil Bingham and Lady Rosabelle Millicent St. Clair-Erskine. She married, firstly, Charles Guy Fulke Greville, 7th Earl of Warwick on 11 July 1933, they were divorced in 1938. She married, secondly, P/O. William M. L. Fiske III on 8 September 1938. She married, thirdly, Lt.-Col. Sir John Charles Arthur Digby Lawson, 3rd Bt., they were divorced in 1949. She married, fourthly, Theodore Sheldon Bassett in 1951. She died in 1982.
Combine Operations
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 687
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From: U.K.
No reason why 'The Few' shouldn't be a fair tribute to the life of Billy Fiske.
Make a film of him, by all means. He was a true all-American hero, and he for his beliefs.
But, with Tom Cruise I can only imagine this is going to be another Top Gun.
Sorry, you Yanks, but it seems to me that nothing lies like an American film based on fact.
Hero that he was, Billy Fiske had nothing to do with The Few. That term was introduced by Winston Churchill after the Battle of Britain.
So the lie starts with the title.
By the way, there is a thread on Nigger in Jet Blast.
Joined: May 2000
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From: door or ramp, don't mind.
It is usually exceptionally poor and 'cartoonish' in such films
The remake of Dambsuters.......I understood the production was shelved partly due to the inevitable desire by US funding to include fictional US interests, and an inablilty of the production company and those with a vested historical interest to come to any kind of mutual agreement over whether or not it was appropriate to include GG's dog in his original format, if you get my drift?
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,131
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From: Royal Berkshire
The Dambusters - I believe Sir David Frost owns the film rights, so perhaps there's hope. Still a problem with Nigger, though.
The Dambusters film may have had some dodgy special effects but it had 4 x flying Lancasters and Scampton looking pretty much as it had at the time of the raid, and plenty of period feel being made as it was in the early fifties.
I'll take that any day over a modern remake using CGI, dodgy modern actors and some PC renaming of Nigger.........
On the subject of The Few, there is a chance that there will be a minimum of CGI as Tom Cruise does own/fly a P-51.
I still think it'll be another rewrite of history though......
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Wiltshire
Daily Torygraph
Digital Spy
Sir David Frost has just bought the rights to re-make that magnificent film The Dam Busters. Sir David is a sensitive and intelligent man, so I feel we should not need to ask him: why? What was wrong with the original? To its zillions of fans, remaking it is an act of cultural vandalism akin to re-painting the Mona Lisa, or dropping a bouncing bomb through the dome of St Paul's Cathedral. And, of course, there is an additional problem: the legendary Wing Commander Guy Gibson's equally legendary dog, Nigger. There is a debate about what it should be called in the re-make. Well, just as I presume the RAF will be flying Lancaster bombers and not B-52s, the answer is obvious: Nigger. Quentin Tarantino gets away with the frequent use of the N-word in his films by having it uttered by black men. If Sir David is fretting, he could always find a black man to play Gibson, and turn the whole thing into an exercise in street cred.
The Dam Busters is set to be remade, with TV interviewer Sir David Frost in the cockpit
According to Guardian Unlimited ,Frost has acquired the rights to the 1954 original which followed the true story of inventor Dr. Barnes Wallis and his development of the "bouncing bomb", a device with which to destroy German dams in the Ruhr valley. Considered one of the nation's favourite films, it starred Michael Redgrave and Richard Todd.
A long-time fan of the film, Frost has had a vague intention to organise a remake for the past couple of years. His hopes have begun to come to fruition with the signing of a three-year option agreement with the family of Paul Brickhill, the author of the novel on which the movie was based.
"The new film won't be cheap. But it really did feel worth having a go. We will consult with the family on it. We have one or two people in mind to play the leading characters but haven't approached them yet. It's a great project and I'm looking forward to seeing it take off," he explained.
Made through David's company, Paradine, he and Steve Anderson will executive produce.
According to Guardian Unlimited ,Frost has acquired the rights to the 1954 original which followed the true story of inventor Dr. Barnes Wallis and his development of the "bouncing bomb", a device with which to destroy German dams in the Ruhr valley. Considered one of the nation's favourite films, it starred Michael Redgrave and Richard Todd.
A long-time fan of the film, Frost has had a vague intention to organise a remake for the past couple of years. His hopes have begun to come to fruition with the signing of a three-year option agreement with the family of Paul Brickhill, the author of the novel on which the movie was based.
"The new film won't be cheap. But it really did feel worth having a go. We will consult with the family on it. We have one or two people in mind to play the leading characters but haven't approached them yet. It's a great project and I'm looking forward to seeing it take off," he explained.
Made through David's company, Paradine, he and Steve Anderson will executive produce.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 896
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From: Wellington, New Zealand
Personally, I hope the film [The Few], never gets off the ground because it will inevitably be written in such a way as to show how Americans won the war single-handedly; even at a time when they weren't in it!
US producers manage to sneak such references into just about every recent film, and including the TV series "Band of Brothers" where they are diverted from the war effort in defeating the Germans , alone, to rescue the Parachute Regiment from Arnhem.
Likewise, in the most recent remake of "Pearl Harbour", one of the leading men is "posted", in 1940, in USAAC uniform, to the RAF and proceeds to show them how it's done.
"Saving Private Ryan" contains references to how Montgomery was holding back the American effort to win the war single-handedly....
...and then there was that dreadful U-Boat distortion of how the US Navy stood in for the Real Navy and captured an Enigma machine.
This is not in any way meant to decry the US war effort of course, but Hollywood need to be reminded that they can't re-write history simply because they have the money!
US producers manage to sneak such references into just about every recent film, and including the TV series "Band of Brothers" where they are diverted from the war effort in defeating the Germans , alone, to rescue the Parachute Regiment from Arnhem.
Likewise, in the most recent remake of "Pearl Harbour", one of the leading men is "posted", in 1940, in USAAC uniform, to the RAF and proceeds to show them how it's done.
"Saving Private Ryan" contains references to how Montgomery was holding back the American effort to win the war single-handedly....
...and then there was that dreadful U-Boat distortion of how the US Navy stood in for the Real Navy and captured an Enigma machine.
This is not in any way meant to decry the US war effort of course, but Hollywood need to be reminded that they can't re-write history simply because they have the money!
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
Several Americans flew in the Battle of Britain, including Andy Mamedoff, Shorty Keogh and Red Tobin who were members of 609 Squadron, and Arthur Gerald Donohue who flew in 64 Squadron.
Following the Battle of Britain, these men and several others including Gus Daymond and Chesley "Pete" Peterson joined 71 Squadron, the first Eagle Squadron. 121 followed in the spring of 1941, and 133 that summer.
The RAF recognises 2440 British and 510 overseas pilots who flew at least one authorised operational sortie with an eligible unit of the Royal Air Force or Fleet Air Arm during the period 10 July to 31 October 1940.
This group includes:
139 Poles
98 New Zealanders
86 Canadians
84 Czechoslovakians
29 Belgians
21 Australians
20 South Africans
13 French
10 Irish
7 Americans
1 Jamaican
1 Palestine Jew
1 Rhodesian
498 RAF pilots were killed during the Battle.
Following the Battle of Britain, these men and several others including Gus Daymond and Chesley "Pete" Peterson joined 71 Squadron, the first Eagle Squadron. 121 followed in the spring of 1941, and 133 that summer.
The RAF recognises 2440 British and 510 overseas pilots who flew at least one authorised operational sortie with an eligible unit of the Royal Air Force or Fleet Air Arm during the period 10 July to 31 October 1940.
This group includes:
139 Poles
98 New Zealanders
86 Canadians
84 Czechoslovakians
29 Belgians
21 Australians
20 South Africans
13 French
10 Irish
7 Americans
1 Jamaican
1 Palestine Jew
1 Rhodesian
498 RAF pilots were killed during the Battle.
Last edited by SASless; 18th December 2005 at 14:40.
Combine Operations
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 687
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From: U.K.
...Paul Brickhill, the author of the novel on which the movie [The Dambusters] was based.
"The Few" - They existed, and five hundred or so of them died in the Battle, and many more were grievously injured, some of them suffering to this day. Some of them were, and are, Americans; and South Africans, and Poles, etc. etc. We will be for ever in their debt. If they make a film about a man who was not one of The Few, and call it The Few, they are denigrating their memory, and their heroism, and his memory, and his heroism.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
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From: Peripatetic
And on what grounds are you excluding him?
Pilots of the Battle of Britain
FISKE, P/O W. M. L. 78092 American. 601 Squadron. Crashed August 16th 1940/Died August 17th 1940
Pilots of the Battle of Britain
FISKE, P/O W. M. L. 78092 American. 601 Squadron. Crashed August 16th 1940/Died August 17th 1940