Has there been a (VGS) cover up?
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Has there been a (VGS) cover up?
2 Vigilants crewed by very senior pilots hit each other whilst doing an impromptu air to air photo sortie, and nothing mentioned in any Flight Safety info folders or subject to a *Board of Enquiry! ..despite extensive damage.
*A unit enquiry may have occured but the VGS Sqn is the only service unit at BAe
Oops, forgot, Main man flying training is an old boy
.........and a mate of mine got the mother of all bo....ings for telling me, and there aircraft were/are covered insheets to stop photos, and the crew were "Very lucky".
Smacks of a cover up, (Unless you know differant),...looking out for black Omegas with immediate effect.
*A unit enquiry may have occured but the VGS Sqn is the only service unit at BAe
Oops, forgot, Main man flying training is an old boy
.........and a mate of mine got the mother of all bo....ings for telling me, and there aircraft were/are covered insheets to stop photos, and the crew were "Very lucky".
Smacks of a cover up, (Unless you know differant),...looking out for black Omegas with immediate effect.
I'm pretty sure there was no cover up - I think I read about it on pprune first. There has been a signal - it was months ago wasnt it?
Last edited by VigilantPilot; 13th Dec 2005 at 21:21.
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My experience of flying with several VGS' is that the whole empire is a run by a mafioso who think they are untouchable. 618 VGS is a prime example where the Boss is universally hated and yet has the full support of Cranwell and Syerston. Its about time that ACCGS did unannounced inspections to highlight the slack discipline and supervision that is commonplace throughout the organisation.
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It wouldn't surprise me to be honest. While my experience of VGS'ing is limited to one Sqn only, what I saw was a comprehensively slack and unsafe unit who seemingly felt above the rules and regs.
A few months after my time there I heard CFS shut them down for a while and a major staff reshuffle followed shortly after.
The general feeling I had, and this was at the one unit only (wouldn't want to tar them all with the same brush), was that there was allot more ego than ability about the place.
ASI
A few months after my time there I heard CFS shut them down for a while and a major staff reshuffle followed shortly after.
The general feeling I had, and this was at the one unit only (wouldn't want to tar them all with the same brush), was that there was allot more ego than ability about the place.
ASI
How can this be in the age of litigation?
Are these the sort of people who should be involved with children?
Posting rumours like this is a bit silly - if you have actual cause to complain, do it properly. CONDOR it to whatever the purple thing is which replaced IFS if you feel that strongly but wish to remain anonymous.
Some years ago, one of my aeroplanes was allegedly 'bounced' by a Vigilant. Despite actual radar traces which showed where it landed, direct questioning of the pilots from that aerodrome proved fruitless - they swore blind that it wasn't one of them. It couldn't be proved, no-one had been injured, so no further action could be taken.
So perhaps there might be some substance to your rumours? But report them properly through existing processes rather than posting on here anonymously.
Are these the sort of people who should be involved with children?
Posting rumours like this is a bit silly - if you have actual cause to complain, do it properly. CONDOR it to whatever the purple thing is which replaced IFS if you feel that strongly but wish to remain anonymous.
Some years ago, one of my aeroplanes was allegedly 'bounced' by a Vigilant. Despite actual radar traces which showed where it landed, direct questioning of the pilots from that aerodrome proved fruitless - they swore blind that it wasn't one of them. It couldn't be proved, no-one had been injured, so no further action could be taken.
So perhaps there might be some substance to your rumours? But report them properly through existing processes rather than posting on here anonymously.
'D' notices were in use MANY years ago in order to hush up c... ups at VGS'.
SubdiFuge: Go to any VGS and you'll find the boss is hated. They must have a special room at HQAC where they're brainwashed into becoming like that, 'cos until they're put in charge, they're 'normal' VGS instructors.
SubdiFuge: Go to any VGS and you'll find the boss is hated. They must have a special room at HQAC where they're brainwashed into becoming like that, 'cos until they're put in charge, they're 'normal' VGS instructors.
.....wondered how long it would be before 618 got a mention on here!!
Pity of that situation is that some very good people have felt they can no longer serve under the same (portacabin) roof.
A great shame, and loss to the Unit as a whole.
Pity of that situation is that some very good people have felt they can no longer serve under the same (portacabin) roof.
A great shame, and loss to the Unit as a whole.
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Hey SubdiFuge you're having a pop at my Squadron!!!
As it happens the Boss isn't hated at all, I haven't seen the mafioso you refer to and discipline and safety are excellent at Odiham.
Sounds like you have a personal beef with someone. You should have the balls to take up it with them direct, instead of snide remarks here.
Hi Wycombe - I\'m sure you are right but the fact of the matter is that we now have a team at 618 that pulls together- albeit a little smaller.The atmosphere under the \"portacabin roof\" is far better without the bickering and back stabbing that used to prevail. Wonder if SubdiFuge is one of those who left and just can\'t stop moaning?
As it happens the Boss isn't hated at all, I haven't seen the mafioso you refer to and discipline and safety are excellent at Odiham.
Sounds like you have a personal beef with someone. You should have the balls to take up it with them direct, instead of snide remarks here.
Hi Wycombe - I\'m sure you are right but the fact of the matter is that we now have a team at 618 that pulls together- albeit a little smaller.The atmosphere under the \"portacabin roof\" is far better without the bickering and back stabbing that used to prevail. Wonder if SubdiFuge is one of those who left and just can\'t stop moaning?
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VP
I'm afraid you are so wrong. I can only think of 2 people that like OC 618 and that is because they are sicophantic self-servers.
For the record, the bickering and backsatbbing was caused by OC 618's cronyism and as a consequence 618 has lost some quality people.
Please trust me when I say that I have no axe to grind, however I witnessed some appaling treatment of other instructors and staff. The man in charge displays breathtaking arrogance as a result of too much time in charge. OC VGSs should be changed every 2 to 3 years to keep things fresh whilst retaining some continuity.
SDF
I'm afraid you are so wrong. I can only think of 2 people that like OC 618 and that is because they are sicophantic self-servers.
For the record, the bickering and backsatbbing was caused by OC 618's cronyism and as a consequence 618 has lost some quality people.
Please trust me when I say that I have no axe to grind, however I witnessed some appaling treatment of other instructors and staff. The man in charge displays breathtaking arrogance as a result of too much time in charge. OC VGSs should be changed every 2 to 3 years to keep things fresh whilst retaining some continuity.
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I had two bosses in my time with the VGS system. Both got a tick in the "Good Lad" box. The CFIs I had, on the other hand, tended to be real choppers.
I might have had a lucky time of it though. I have to say I did come across several plastic 2 1/2 bar oxygen thieves at Syerston and that God-forsaken, midge-infested toilet in Fife. The muppet who was boss at 631 (or whatever Sealand's number is/was)in the mid 1990s, in particular struck me as a wooden-top. I met him on a course a few months after his school sadly suffered that terrible fatal mid-air and, IIRC a few weeks later, had a new instructor park her a/c in a tree a couple of hundred yards short of the threshold while trying to teach the end of Ex 4 (effect of airbrake) on the approach. He'd been in post for 13 years already and no-one could figure out why this clown still had his job.
I might have had a lucky time of it though. I have to say I did come across several plastic 2 1/2 bar oxygen thieves at Syerston and that God-forsaken, midge-infested toilet in Fife. The muppet who was boss at 631 (or whatever Sealand's number is/was)in the mid 1990s, in particular struck me as a wooden-top. I met him on a course a few months after his school sadly suffered that terrible fatal mid-air and, IIRC a few weeks later, had a new instructor park her a/c in a tree a couple of hundred yards short of the threshold while trying to teach the end of Ex 4 (effect of airbrake) on the approach. He'd been in post for 13 years already and no-one could figure out why this clown still had his job.
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Well SubdiFuge, as you write in the past tense, I take it you are one of the one's to have left under a cloud. I can only tell it as I see it today and I have to say we have a generally very happy Squadron. Did you come to the excellent Xmas Supper, I know you were invited?
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Its all very well Beagle calling for the thread to be deleted, and the scope of the thread has drifted from the initial mid-air, however hiding the thread under the carpet as it were, IS THE POINT THAT I AM MAKING!!!
Nobody in the Aviation fraternity is above Flight Safety (1*), and the fact that the people concerned and their "friends in high places" are pretending that a nasty incident didnt occur is a disgrace.
If nothing else, taxpayers money paid for those aeroplanes, (and the replacement or repair of them) and the crews are flying kids around at weekends with their *cavalier approach to life or *inflated ego's (delete as appropriate)
I dont know the specifics of Sealands sad fatal accident, but I do know that threads such as this may just stop a repetition. So lets not choose selective blindness and deafness, lets get the outcome of a BOI made public, and if a BOI did not take place, Why not?
The way that the thread has drifted suggests to me a real CRM -leadership - supervision problem within one or more VGS, and its needs somebody to sort it out.
(1*) Nobody that wants to be an Old, Bold Pilot at least
Nobody in the Aviation fraternity is above Flight Safety (1*), and the fact that the people concerned and their "friends in high places" are pretending that a nasty incident didnt occur is a disgrace.
If nothing else, taxpayers money paid for those aeroplanes, (and the replacement or repair of them) and the crews are flying kids around at weekends with their *cavalier approach to life or *inflated ego's (delete as appropriate)
I dont know the specifics of Sealands sad fatal accident, but I do know that threads such as this may just stop a repetition. So lets not choose selective blindness and deafness, lets get the outcome of a BOI made public, and if a BOI did not take place, Why not?
The way that the thread has drifted suggests to me a real CRM -leadership - supervision problem within one or more VGS, and its needs somebody to sort it out.
(1*) Nobody that wants to be an Old, Bold Pilot at least
