Largets number of V-Force squadrons?
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Largets number of V-Force squadrons?
Anyone have a reference to point me to find the max number of V-Force squadrons active at one time? Or a pretty good guess at the number? Using the info as a sidebar to a magazine story on the Vulcan.
Many thanks,
Brick
Many thanks,
Brick
I guess it must have just before the Valiant fleet was withdrawn and the Mark 1 Victor bomber squadrons disbanded, some time in 1964?
That would give 9 Vulcan, 4 Victor B1, 2 Victor B2, 3 Valiant B1, 1 Valiant recce and 2 Valiant tanker, 21 squadrons in total? Plus 2 OCUs, a Development Unit and a radar recce flight?
That would give 9 Vulcan, 4 Victor B1, 2 Victor B2, 3 Valiant B1, 1 Valiant recce and 2 Valiant tanker, 21 squadrons in total? Plus 2 OCUs, a Development Unit and a radar recce flight?
What on earth is an editor doing commissioning you to write on this if you need to ask such a basic factual question here?
Who's publishing this 'masterpiece'?
Right. With the abuse out of the way, there's a 1962 Orbat (if memory serves) in the back of Bomber Squadrons of the RAF. More usefully, the dates for all the units (except the tanker/recce/ECM units) are given in the back of the HMSO RAF Nuclear Deterrent Forces book. Please don't tell me you've written an article without having that basic reference to hand.
So why not do the job properly, and plot the conversion/disbandment dates of the V-bomber squadrons on a sheet of paper and determine EXACTLY what the peak strength was, and at what date.
The squadrons to look up are:
7, IX, 10, 12, XV, 18, 27, 35, 44, 49, 50, 55, 57, 83, 90, 100, 138, 139, 148, 199, 207, 214, 543, 617, plus OCUs (230 and 232 ONLY)
Without doing your job for you, I'd suggest that the peak would have been at the peak of the Valiant force, a smidge earlier than proone guesses - after May 62 when you'd have had eight Valiant squadrons (depending on whether 18/199 and 90, 214 and 543 count), six Victor squadrons, and seven Vulcan squadrons. but before 3/63 when you'd have had two more Vulcan units and two fewer Valiant units. At some intermediate date between 7/62 and 9/62 there'd have been two extra Vulcan units, without the Valiant squadrons having disbanded. After that Valiant and Victor 1 squadrons vanished without being 'replaced'.
My guess would be a peak of: five Valiant bomber squadrons, one Valiant bomber/tanker squadron, one Valiant tanker squadron, one Valiant recce squadron. Plus four Victor B1 and two Victor B2 squadrons. And three Vulcan B1 and five Vulcan B2 Squadrons. At that time BCDU had no assigned aircraft, and the RRF had just two Victors.
Who's publishing this 'masterpiece'?
Right. With the abuse out of the way, there's a 1962 Orbat (if memory serves) in the back of Bomber Squadrons of the RAF. More usefully, the dates for all the units (except the tanker/recce/ECM units) are given in the back of the HMSO RAF Nuclear Deterrent Forces book. Please don't tell me you've written an article without having that basic reference to hand.
So why not do the job properly, and plot the conversion/disbandment dates of the V-bomber squadrons on a sheet of paper and determine EXACTLY what the peak strength was, and at what date.
The squadrons to look up are:
7, IX, 10, 12, XV, 18, 27, 35, 44, 49, 50, 55, 57, 83, 90, 100, 138, 139, 148, 199, 207, 214, 543, 617, plus OCUs (230 and 232 ONLY)
Without doing your job for you, I'd suggest that the peak would have been at the peak of the Valiant force, a smidge earlier than proone guesses - after May 62 when you'd have had eight Valiant squadrons (depending on whether 18/199 and 90, 214 and 543 count), six Victor squadrons, and seven Vulcan squadrons. but before 3/63 when you'd have had two more Vulcan units and two fewer Valiant units. At some intermediate date between 7/62 and 9/62 there'd have been two extra Vulcan units, without the Valiant squadrons having disbanded. After that Valiant and Victor 1 squadrons vanished without being 'replaced'.
My guess would be a peak of: five Valiant bomber squadrons, one Valiant bomber/tanker squadron, one Valiant tanker squadron, one Valiant recce squadron. Plus four Victor B1 and two Victor B2 squadrons. And three Vulcan B1 and five Vulcan B2 Squadrons. At that time BCDU had no assigned aircraft, and the RRF had just two Victors.
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Jacko,
Thanks for taking the time to reply........
Firstly, no one has commissioned me, I write for a hobby. If I can place it, so much the better.
Secondly, my reason for posting my misspelled topic at all was to find an accurate source regarding the V Force. It is not exactly best-selling reading in my small town. Hence my looking for references. The ORBAT you listed would be a fine such source, thanks.
Thirdly, the total number of V Force bombers is not particularly germaine to my story, it was just an idea for a sidebar to the story (as was listed in my original post).
Finally, as for doing my job for me, as I've said, it's a hobby. I try to write and learn about lesser known on my side of the Atlantic aircraft. Sadly, as time progresses, the Vulcan is becoming one of those. If you want to write one, I'd be pleased to read it.
If I really wanted to be insulted for trying to learn about another country's history, in this case military aviation history, I'll approach the French............
Thanks for taking the time to reply........
Firstly, no one has commissioned me, I write for a hobby. If I can place it, so much the better.
Secondly, my reason for posting my misspelled topic at all was to find an accurate source regarding the V Force. It is not exactly best-selling reading in my small town. Hence my looking for references. The ORBAT you listed would be a fine such source, thanks.
Thirdly, the total number of V Force bombers is not particularly germaine to my story, it was just an idea for a sidebar to the story (as was listed in my original post).
Finally, as for doing my job for me, as I've said, it's a hobby. I try to write and learn about lesser known on my side of the Atlantic aircraft. Sadly, as time progresses, the Vulcan is becoming one of those. If you want to write one, I'd be pleased to read it.
If I really wanted to be insulted for trying to learn about another country's history, in this case military aviation history, I'll approach the French............
The days when we had a real air force in the UK, eh?
Today's functioning V-bombers number but a mere brace (655 and 426) - but with 558 due to fly probably next year.
Was having a look at 655 today at Wellesbourne Mountford - the chaps are looking after her very well indeed and the next ground runs and low speed taxying will be going ahead next spring as planned, with the usual nosewheel-off high speed runs later in 2006.
And Jacko, you've missed a very important number indeed off your list...
101
How could you have missed it out??
Today's functioning V-bombers number but a mere brace (655 and 426) - but with 558 due to fly probably next year.
Was having a look at 655 today at Wellesbourne Mountford - the chaps are looking after her very well indeed and the next ground runs and low speed taxying will be going ahead next spring as planned, with the usual nosewheel-off high speed runs later in 2006.
And Jacko, you've missed a very important number indeed off your list...
101
How could you have missed it out??
Guest
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Curious to find out if the RCS numbers on the Vulcan are available? Did any no longer in the inventory fighters running on one have difficulty picking it up via radar?
(Hoping jacko will allow me this one as it is NOT for any writing, just my own curiousity..........)
(Hoping jacko will allow me this one as it is NOT for any writing, just my own curiousity..........)
Excluding OCUs, I make it a maximum of 22 squadrons between Jul 62 and Sep 62 (9 Valiant, 5 Victor and 8 Vulcan), also 22 squadrons between Dec 62 and Mar 63 (8 Valiant, 5 Victor and 8 Vulcan).
Guest
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To all who provided some info, I am very appreciative! The V Force was an interesting subject; too bad the replacements were never bought/always cancelled (not trying to stir up debate on the whys, however!)
For forget, thanks for the listings and I didn't take jackonicko's comments personally, as I am sure he didn't take my comments back seriously. Ffter all, the req'd equipment for being in this forum includes a thick skin.
For forget, thanks for the listings and I didn't take jackonicko's comments personally, as I am sure he didn't take my comments back seriously. Ffter all, the req'd equipment for being in this forum includes a thick skin.
Should have read "....also 22 squadrons between Dec 62 and Mar 63 (8 Valiant, 5 Victor and 9 Vulcan)."
The peak of 22 was first reached when 12 Sqn reformed with the Vulcan B2 in July 1962, remaining at this total until 7 Sqn disbanded as a Valiant squadron at the end of September 1962. This reduced the total to 21 until 35 Sqn reformed on the Vulcan B2 in December 1962, bringing the total back up to 22.
At the end of March 1963, 18 Sqn disbanded as a Valiant squadron. This dropped the total to 21 squadrons; the total remained at this level until the end of February 1964 when 10 Sqn disbanded as a Victor squadron, reducing the total to 20.
The peak of 22 was first reached when 12 Sqn reformed with the Vulcan B2 in July 1962, remaining at this total until 7 Sqn disbanded as a Valiant squadron at the end of September 1962. This reduced the total to 21 until 35 Sqn reformed on the Vulcan B2 in December 1962, bringing the total back up to 22.
At the end of March 1963, 18 Sqn disbanded as a Valiant squadron. This dropped the total to 21 squadrons; the total remained at this level until the end of February 1964 when 10 Sqn disbanded as a Victor squadron, reducing the total to 20.
