C130 down in Tehran
I'matightbastard
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BBC Radio reports that the aircraft dates back to the era of the Shah, since when no spares have been available from the USA
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BBC Radio reports that the aircraft dates back to the era of the Shah, since when no spares have been available from the USA.
The US embargo should have had no effect on Herc operations if they were sufficiently motivated to DO THE JOB!
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Punkalouver you're so funny...
...and usually right. Sadly, you are neither.
Seem to remember a herc crash in Tehran a few years back on takeoff roll they hit an Airbus that was being towed but was not on the runway. Possible simulated enginefailure training. Anyone ever get any more detail?
...and usually right. Sadly, you are neither.
Seem to remember a herc crash in Tehran a few years back on takeoff roll they hit an Airbus that was being towed but was not on the runway. Possible simulated enginefailure training. Anyone ever get any more detail?
Last edited by punkalouver; 8th Dec 2005 at 02:08.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Was there much wreckage of the aircraft left at the crash site?
I mean, full of fuel, into a building.
There was FA left of the 757 at the PENTAGON!!
SS
I mean, full of fuel, into a building.
There was FA left of the 757 at the PENTAGON!!
SS
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Barit 1
Agree with you fully.
Having been to the Iranian airshow in Kish and seen the modification work on the B206 helo as an example and the fact that at one point they had a better serviceability rate on their F14's than the Yanks, it suprises me that these claims were made.
The reverse engineering capability they have perfected has been utilised in cloning the F14 engine, cloning the Phoenix missile and keeping fleets of C130's, P3' and Cobra helo's airborn to name a few. Lets face it the Americans have full access to their own spares and they still crash...regularly!
People shouldn't under estimate Iran or other sanctioned countries in their ability to field credible technical and human assets.
And I will say once again (as mentioned in a previous thread) that the Iranians I have dealt with here in the Middle East have been fantastic people, the reigime itself I have problems with but that is not isolated to Iran.
Additionally I pass my sympathy to the Iranian community and those PPruners from that part of the world, and I know there are some.
Having been to the Iranian airshow in Kish and seen the modification work on the B206 helo as an example and the fact that at one point they had a better serviceability rate on their F14's than the Yanks, it suprises me that these claims were made.
The reverse engineering capability they have perfected has been utilised in cloning the F14 engine, cloning the Phoenix missile and keeping fleets of C130's, P3' and Cobra helo's airborn to name a few. Lets face it the Americans have full access to their own spares and they still crash...regularly!
People shouldn't under estimate Iran or other sanctioned countries in their ability to field credible technical and human assets.
And I will say once again (as mentioned in a previous thread) that the Iranians I have dealt with here in the Middle East have been fantastic people, the reigime itself I have problems with but that is not isolated to Iran.
Additionally I pass my sympathy to the Iranian community and those PPruners from that part of the world, and I know there are some.
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I think that it's interesting, given the gravity of the accident, that in contrast to comparable incidents taking place in "Western" countries - or involving carriers from the same - this accident has generated negligible response.
Or is it that there's no information leaking out of Iran?
Or is it that there's no information leaking out of Iran?
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Very disturbing, if its true, according to one report I heard, was that the captain twice requested emergency recovery to the airport but was refused an approach on each occasion because the airport was too busy.
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Runaway
Due to the rescheduling of the show and regional issues there was no military participation at all except in the trade area and the TF30's were on ddisplay there. The previous kish airshow however had the Tomcats present and the indiginous Phoenix missile.
Some more interesting notes...
"The initial order signed in January of 1974 covered 30 Tomcats, but in June 50 more were added to the contract. At the same time, the Iranian government-owned Bank-e-Melli stepped in, and agreed to loan Grumman $75 million to partially make up for a US government loan of $200 million to Grumman, which had just been cancelled. This loan save the F-14 program and enabled Grumman to secure a further loan of $125 million from a consortium of American banks, ensuring at least for the moment that the F-14 program would continue.
Iranian capabilities in this area may have taken place on February 11, 1985, when 25 Iranian F-14A Tomcats took a mass fly by over Tehran. In spite of the Western arms embargo, Iran been able to maintain a more-or-less steady supply of spare parts for its fleet of Tomcats, from Iranian aircraft industries based at 1st tactical air base in Tehran. The number of Tomcats in service with Iran is reported as many as 60 aircrafts. Some of these parts also seem to have been smuggled into Iran by Israel. Also there is rumor of Russians provided assistance to upgrade tomcats aging airframe. US government supplied arms to Iran in exchange for its assistance in getting hostages held in Lebanon released"
Some more interesting notes...
"The initial order signed in January of 1974 covered 30 Tomcats, but in June 50 more were added to the contract. At the same time, the Iranian government-owned Bank-e-Melli stepped in, and agreed to loan Grumman $75 million to partially make up for a US government loan of $200 million to Grumman, which had just been cancelled. This loan save the F-14 program and enabled Grumman to secure a further loan of $125 million from a consortium of American banks, ensuring at least for the moment that the F-14 program would continue.
Iranian capabilities in this area may have taken place on February 11, 1985, when 25 Iranian F-14A Tomcats took a mass fly by over Tehran. In spite of the Western arms embargo, Iran been able to maintain a more-or-less steady supply of spare parts for its fleet of Tomcats, from Iranian aircraft industries based at 1st tactical air base in Tehran. The number of Tomcats in service with Iran is reported as many as 60 aircrafts. Some of these parts also seem to have been smuggled into Iran by Israel. Also there is rumor of Russians provided assistance to upgrade tomcats aging airframe. US government supplied arms to Iran in exchange for its assistance in getting hostages held in Lebanon released"
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Fox3
I agree with some of what you say about Iran's aerospace industry capabilities, or lack thereof – but there were absolutely, positively no Tomcats at the previous Kish Show in 2003, nor any AIM-54s for that matter.
They've been shown at other places but not Kish. Doesn't sound like you were there for that one.
If you've been to Iran and spoken to industry people there then you'll know they are immensely proud of what they have achieved but do rather tend to overclaim.
Rebuilding JetRangers, or PC-7s or whatever doesn't equate to an effective aviation industry. The old guys who got proper training are fading away, their facilities date to the 1970s, no modern tools...they have dreams and ambitions but not a lot to show for them.
My guess is that this war-weary and overused C-130 was not in the best condition.
VC
I agree with some of what you say about Iran's aerospace industry capabilities, or lack thereof – but there were absolutely, positively no Tomcats at the previous Kish Show in 2003, nor any AIM-54s for that matter.
They've been shown at other places but not Kish. Doesn't sound like you were there for that one.
If you've been to Iran and spoken to industry people there then you'll know they are immensely proud of what they have achieved but do rather tend to overclaim.
Rebuilding JetRangers, or PC-7s or whatever doesn't equate to an effective aviation industry. The old guys who got proper training are fading away, their facilities date to the 1970s, no modern tools...they have dreams and ambitions but not a lot to show for them.
My guess is that this war-weary and overused C-130 was not in the best condition.
VC
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VC
If you have access to Air Forces monthly (particularly December 2002 edition and the Khoramshahr Exhibition which was an exclusive report) On display were F14's, Phantom II and F5 aircraft. It notes that the F14 has had numerous enhancement projects including the upgrade of the AWG-9 radar's range, integrating R-73 AAm and various other A/G weapons. Additionally the F4's were modified to carry the KH58 anti radiation missile and PL-7 and R-73 short range missiles. Also of worthy mention is the F5 single seaters which they converted to two seaters and with unavailability of MB seats integrated Russian bang seats.
Additionally the Scramble website still lists the F14A, F4 and F5's in the Iranian ORBAT, which if correct stands testimony to their ability in "keep'n em fly'n". Lets face it, the US F14's have or are making their final public appearances as they retire and are replaced by the Super Hornets.
I do correct myself however on refering to the previous Kish airshow, I was in fact refering to Khoramshahr.
Additionally the Scramble website still lists the F14A, F4 and F5's in the Iranian ORBAT, which if correct stands testimony to their ability in "keep'n em fly'n". Lets face it, the US F14's have or are making their final public appearances as they retire and are replaced by the Super Hornets.
I do correct myself however on refering to the previous Kish airshow, I was in fact refering to Khoramshahr.
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F3
Well, faced with such authoritative firepower from <genuflects> AFM <falls about laughing> I should really give way...
...but then again, nah.
The Iranians have done a solid job of keeping a vintage air force flying. Things were particularly tough during the Iraq war but they managed to scrounge enough outside help - and finally figured out that they should stop shooting their own qualified people and let the ones who were left out of prison.
Since then they have continued to keep a lot of their Shah-era air force in the air, but things are starting to creak.
Yes there are F-14s still flying, but the IRIAF has made no significant improvement to that aircraft's baseline capabilities and when they did try - integrating HAWK has an AAM for example - it was not a resounding success.
I bet the reliability of Iranian maintained TF30s is stellar.
I know several Iranian sources say they have integrated the R-73 on Western aircraft. I wait to see some credible evidence of this.
The same goes for the Kh-58 fairytales.
You are wrong about the two-seat F-5A conversions (Simorgh). They ARE still fitted with Martin Baker seats that Iran managed to acquire from somewhere. And that programme sort of proves my point. It was undertaken by HESA using the old Northrop drawings that were left behind at the old factory at Isfahan that was set up in the 1970s to build the same aircraft that 30 years later they modified very, very s-l-o-w-l-y in an oddball conversion programme that is not what any sensible air force would choose to do, if it had a choice.
Iran is desperate to get new aircraft. Its experience with Russian kit has been far from positive and if there was any way the IRIAF could get something better then it would. In fact, there are quite a few people there who would just love to be friends with the US once more and maybe get all those F-16s they planned for.
That day is still a bit far away. For the moment they are just about making do - but nothing more.
VC
BTW: The US is retiring its Tomcats not because its wants to but because the Navy can’t afford to keep them going in the face of Super Hornet and everything else that has to be paid for at the moment. To suggest that Iran is somehow better able to sustain its Tomcats than the USN is nonsense. The IRIAF dreams of having something as capable and as serviceable as the two squadrons of F-14D Bombcats that are left.
Well, faced with such authoritative firepower from <genuflects> AFM <falls about laughing> I should really give way...
...but then again, nah.
The Iranians have done a solid job of keeping a vintage air force flying. Things were particularly tough during the Iraq war but they managed to scrounge enough outside help - and finally figured out that they should stop shooting their own qualified people and let the ones who were left out of prison.
Since then they have continued to keep a lot of their Shah-era air force in the air, but things are starting to creak.
Yes there are F-14s still flying, but the IRIAF has made no significant improvement to that aircraft's baseline capabilities and when they did try - integrating HAWK has an AAM for example - it was not a resounding success.
I bet the reliability of Iranian maintained TF30s is stellar.
I know several Iranian sources say they have integrated the R-73 on Western aircraft. I wait to see some credible evidence of this.
The same goes for the Kh-58 fairytales.
You are wrong about the two-seat F-5A conversions (Simorgh). They ARE still fitted with Martin Baker seats that Iran managed to acquire from somewhere. And that programme sort of proves my point. It was undertaken by HESA using the old Northrop drawings that were left behind at the old factory at Isfahan that was set up in the 1970s to build the same aircraft that 30 years later they modified very, very s-l-o-w-l-y in an oddball conversion programme that is not what any sensible air force would choose to do, if it had a choice.
Iran is desperate to get new aircraft. Its experience with Russian kit has been far from positive and if there was any way the IRIAF could get something better then it would. In fact, there are quite a few people there who would just love to be friends with the US once more and maybe get all those F-16s they planned for.
That day is still a bit far away. For the moment they are just about making do - but nothing more.
VC
BTW: The US is retiring its Tomcats not because its wants to but because the Navy can’t afford to keep them going in the face of Super Hornet and everything else that has to be paid for at the moment. To suggest that Iran is somehow better able to sustain its Tomcats than the USN is nonsense. The IRIAF dreams of having something as capable and as serviceable as the two squadrons of F-14D Bombcats that are left.
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VC
As you hide behind a anonymous forum with little or no credible information in your profile, I hold far more respect and confidence in the AFM reporting than your speculation.
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As a matter of interest, do I recall that most of the Iraqi Airforce hardware departed for Iran during the start of conflict in the area? ..... did it ever return to Iraqi or was it simply absorbed into Iranian Airforce control ? ..... my history escapes me at this time of night
Didn't the Iraqi's also have a few C130's that presumably went along for the ride ......
Didn't the Iraqi's also have a few C130's that presumably went along for the ride ......
In April 1991, the Iraqi foreign ministry published the following list of Iraqi aircraft flown out to Iran, and accordingly requested these aircraft back:
- 24 Mirage F.1EQ/BQ
- 24 Su-24MK
- 40 Su-22
- 4 Su-20
- 7 Su-25
- 4 MiG-29
- 7 MiG-23ML
- 4 MiG-23BN
- 1 MiG-23UB
- 15 Il-76
- 2 Boeing 747
- 2 Boeing 737
- 1 Boeing 727
- 1 Boeing 707
The Iranians put the Mirage, Su-22/24/25, MiG-29s and Il-76s into service. The Iraqis never had any C-130s in service, but used the An-12 CUB. The Iranians simply refused to return the aircraft.
It wasn't at the start of the conflict, but near the end when they realised that they would probably lose the lot.
- 24 Mirage F.1EQ/BQ
- 24 Su-24MK
- 40 Su-22
- 4 Su-20
- 7 Su-25
- 4 MiG-29
- 7 MiG-23ML
- 4 MiG-23BN
- 1 MiG-23UB
- 15 Il-76
- 2 Boeing 747
- 2 Boeing 737
- 1 Boeing 727
- 1 Boeing 707
The Iranians put the Mirage, Su-22/24/25, MiG-29s and Il-76s into service. The Iraqis never had any C-130s in service, but used the An-12 CUB. The Iranians simply refused to return the aircraft.
It wasn't at the start of the conflict, but near the end when they realised that they would probably lose the lot.
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Iranian snafu in C-130 crash
Regarding the C-130 crash in Tehran, according to the blog "Regime Change Iran" at <http://www.regimechangeiran.com/>:
"Two experienced Iranian military pilots refused to take off in the aging cargo aircraft, which had failed to pass all mechanical and safety checks.
"Eventually, senior military personnel prevailed on a junior airforce pilot to take off with the sixty-five or so journalists and some other passengers, twenty five of whom have still failed to be identified.
"Shortly after take-off, the pilot ran into technical difficulties and sent out a Mayday but was told to stay aloft till permission was obtained for him to land at Mehrabad. Why? Because President Ahmadi-Nejad was departing Mehrabad in the brand new "holy" aircraft purchased by Supreme Leader Khamenei, to go to Saudi Arabia and airspace was closed till his flight left. Emergencies and the potential loss of life apparently carried no weight.
"When the pilot requested permission to take the C-130, which lands easily on desert terrain south of the capital and land in the desert, he was ordered to stay in the vicinity of Mehrabad airport. Sources reveal that the powers that be at Mehrabad did not want a plane full of reporters to land safely in the middle of nowhere and to have to deal with the resultant media outbursts as to the poor quality control and servicing of military aircraft.
"After more than 30-minutes of the crippled aircraft trying to stay up and Ahmadi-Nejad finally leaving the ground, the pilot was given permission to land. In his effort to avoid military housing complexes his course took him too close to a couple of ten story residential buildings and he clipped one with a wing, sending the aircraft plunging and killing those one board as well as people on the ground. . . .
"The Majliss (parliament) is currently meeting to impeach the Iranian Minister of Defense over the C-130 air crash."
"Two experienced Iranian military pilots refused to take off in the aging cargo aircraft, which had failed to pass all mechanical and safety checks.
"Eventually, senior military personnel prevailed on a junior airforce pilot to take off with the sixty-five or so journalists and some other passengers, twenty five of whom have still failed to be identified.
"Shortly after take-off, the pilot ran into technical difficulties and sent out a Mayday but was told to stay aloft till permission was obtained for him to land at Mehrabad. Why? Because President Ahmadi-Nejad was departing Mehrabad in the brand new "holy" aircraft purchased by Supreme Leader Khamenei, to go to Saudi Arabia and airspace was closed till his flight left. Emergencies and the potential loss of life apparently carried no weight.
"When the pilot requested permission to take the C-130, which lands easily on desert terrain south of the capital and land in the desert, he was ordered to stay in the vicinity of Mehrabad airport. Sources reveal that the powers that be at Mehrabad did not want a plane full of reporters to land safely in the middle of nowhere and to have to deal with the resultant media outbursts as to the poor quality control and servicing of military aircraft.
"After more than 30-minutes of the crippled aircraft trying to stay up and Ahmadi-Nejad finally leaving the ground, the pilot was given permission to land. In his effort to avoid military housing complexes his course took him too close to a couple of ten story residential buildings and he clipped one with a wing, sending the aircraft plunging and killing those one board as well as people on the ground. . . .
"The Majliss (parliament) is currently meeting to impeach the Iranian Minister of Defense over the C-130 air crash."
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In the cold light of day, I am surprised that Carnage Matey has not withdrawn his insensitive comment from 6 Dec.
