Reds moving to Leeming?
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Reds moving to Leeming?
The Look North TV "news" programme has announced that the Red Arrows may be moving up to Leeming. I presume this is a normal media flight of fantasy? It would be sad to move them out of Lincolnshire and if the Leeming NIMBYs have objected to JSF for noise reasons, they won't like three or four work-up sorties a day from the Reds.
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Id like to see them at Leeming being a Yorkshire lad!
But i think theres pros and cons for it:
. Obviously having hawks there already it would make sense enginerring wise to locate them at a hawk base.
. the area has many smaller airfields that could be used for practises!
However:
. it may intervene with the training sqns there
. May cause noise pollution
So i think it would be a good idea but there are a few cons aswell!
But i think theres pros and cons for it:
. Obviously having hawks there already it would make sense enginerring wise to locate them at a hawk base.
. the area has many smaller airfields that could be used for practises!
However:
. it may intervene with the training sqns there
. May cause noise pollution
So i think it would be a good idea but there are a few cons aswell!
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Sorry, but I think this is just the media putting 2 and 2 together and making baked beans. If, as is believed, Typhoon will be located at Coningsby and Leuchars only, then all that would be left at Leeming would be Hawks. At first glance, it might seem sensible to co-locate RAFAT and 100Sqn, and I suspect that the potential for other units to be located there has led to this speculation.
I don't fancy the idea of the Reds doing their displays up and down the A1, and I am not sure the insurance companies would either!
I also don't believe that the Reds work well with other activities - wasn't this the reason they re-located to Scampton from Cranwell?
What I am reasonably certain of is that their home runway is in need of some work and I suspect they will be temporarily relocating in the not-too-distant future so that some of the potholes can be filled-in! If I were a betting woman, my money would be on Coningsby or Waddington, which would still allow easy access to the R313 for trg. I don't believe R313 is an issue for Robin Hood, any more than when it when development of that site was first proposed.
BA
I don't fancy the idea of the Reds doing their displays up and down the A1, and I am not sure the insurance companies would either!
I also don't believe that the Reds work well with other activities - wasn't this the reason they re-located to Scampton from Cranwell?
What I am reasonably certain of is that their home runway is in need of some work and I suspect they will be temporarily relocating in the not-too-distant future so that some of the potholes can be filled-in! If I were a betting woman, my money would be on Coningsby or Waddington, which would still allow easy access to the R313 for trg. I don't believe R313 is an issue for Robin Hood, any more than when it when development of that site was first proposed.
BA
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This story was being discussed on some other forums over the past few weeks, and I suspect this is where the local media got hold of the story.
Basically, it seems that the RAF/MoD is now keen to move the TCW (and the two Hercules which are supposedly going to be detached with them) to Leeming, rather than Scampton. The reason for this was supposedly because of insufficient space at Scampton, but it's more likely to be due to the RAF's desire to retain Leeming, which is a fully operational airfield. Scampton, by comparison, is in a state of decay, and the runway requires very expensive resurfacing. Half of the domestic site was sold-off for private housing, and the remainder contains building which are proving costly to rebuild (because they contain asbestos) and because some of the buildings are being overseen by English Heritage.
Consequently, the long-rumoured move of 100 Sqn to Scampton has started to look illogical, and it seems more liklely that the Reds would be better-off moving to Leeming, even if they have to make transits back to Scampton's airspace to practice.
Leeming's fate doesn't seem to have been due to "nimby's" but more to do with local politics in Scotland, and in any case, no final decision has been made as to where the final batch of Typhoons will go, if we do buy them (as mentioned in the recent defence statement).
However, all of this has yet to be clarified, and the only official word has been from the MoD, who said that the media reports about the Reds were "speculation". However, it's worth noting that (in typical civil service-speak) this statement specifically did not say that the rumour wasn't true.
Basically, it seems that the RAF/MoD is now keen to move the TCW (and the two Hercules which are supposedly going to be detached with them) to Leeming, rather than Scampton. The reason for this was supposedly because of insufficient space at Scampton, but it's more likely to be due to the RAF's desire to retain Leeming, which is a fully operational airfield. Scampton, by comparison, is in a state of decay, and the runway requires very expensive resurfacing. Half of the domestic site was sold-off for private housing, and the remainder contains building which are proving costly to rebuild (because they contain asbestos) and because some of the buildings are being overseen by English Heritage.
Consequently, the long-rumoured move of 100 Sqn to Scampton has started to look illogical, and it seems more liklely that the Reds would be better-off moving to Leeming, even if they have to make transits back to Scampton's airspace to practice.
Leeming's fate doesn't seem to have been due to "nimby's" but more to do with local politics in Scotland, and in any case, no final decision has been made as to where the final batch of Typhoons will go, if we do buy them (as mentioned in the recent defence statement).
However, all of this has yet to be clarified, and the only official word has been from the MoD, who said that the media reports about the Reds were "speculation". However, it's worth noting that (in typical civil service-speak) this statement specifically did not say that the rumour wasn't true.
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Basically, it seems that the RAF/MoD is now keen to move the TCW (and the two Hercules which are supposedly going to be detached with them)
Js or Ks ? any particular reason? too expensive for TCW to drive to and from Lyneham?
No, no, no,
Of course you are all just guessing. The Reds are actually moving to Culdrose; an existing operator of Hawks, where the infrastructure is almost purpose built for them, and the training area is largely clear of other conflicting activity. It would also attract EU Objective One funding as it would retain Service jobs in the SW following the St Mawgan closure. Simple as that.
Of course you are all just guessing. The Reds are actually moving to Culdrose; an existing operator of Hawks, where the infrastructure is almost purpose built for them, and the training area is largely clear of other conflicting activity. It would also attract EU Objective One funding as it would retain Service jobs in the SW following the St Mawgan closure. Simple as that.
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I was under the impression that if the RAF ever vacated Scampton then it had to be returned to a green field site prior to the land being returned to its original owner.
This may have a lot (of expense) to do with the RAF wanting to use Scampton for something/anything.
WTN
This may have a lot (of expense) to do with the RAF wanting to use Scampton for something/anything.
WTN
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Certainly the reason for not selling off a number of bases - Wittering, certainly, and Wyton. With Wyton, not only does it have to revert to farmland, but a public road and utilities have to be restored as well. To give you an idea of costs involved, when Wyton closed as a flying base, there was a scheme to sell off the concrete runway and sub-structure for road-building hardcore, for which the MOD would be paid some £3M. However, it transpires that it would have cost £5M to dig up and crush the material into a suitable condition for the intended use!
Not only that, these days pollution surveys have to be done and you can guess the state of the sub-soil after almost a century of fluids various dripping/dumped/spilled onto the ground/soakaway drains. I believe that this stuff can be found down to substantial depths - 40 to 50 feet in some cases. The cost of de-contaminating sites to that kind of depth? Hey! How big IS the defence budget?
Anyway, to close Leeming would generate another Iceland-Faroes gap in our defences...
Not only that, these days pollution surveys have to be done and you can guess the state of the sub-soil after almost a century of fluids various dripping/dumped/spilled onto the ground/soakaway drains. I believe that this stuff can be found down to substantial depths - 40 to 50 feet in some cases. The cost of de-contaminating sites to that kind of depth? Hey! How big IS the defence budget?
Anyway, to close Leeming would generate another Iceland-Faroes gap in our defences...
It would be far better for the RW fraternity if TSW moved from Stafford to Leeming rather than to Scampton, which is the current plan. I don't fancy the chances of a fuel-priority Puma trying to enter R313 when the Reds are airborne. Anyway, Leeming is often the airfield of choice for a refuel as it's about halfway to anywhere north. Scampton would be going out of our way and Heaven forbid that helicopters are seen in the skies of Lincolnshire!
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Actually I wasn't circulating any gossip, just the feedback from people at Scampton and Leeming, but naturally you're welcome to believe it or ignore it as you wish.
The TCW moving to Scampton is already established, but more recently it's emerged that there may not be sufficient space at Scampton for their equipment. Likewise, it appears that there was a plan to detach two Hercules with them on a sort of semi-permanent basis. However, it now seems that the move isn't so likely as lots of potential pitfalls are being raised, and Leeming has been mentioned as a better option.
It doesn't take much intelligence to work-out that when the RAF wants to keep Leeming (and the MoD hasn't specifically ruled-out Leeming as a home for the final batch of F35's if we buy them), it would make financial sense to avoid spending any more money on improving airfield facilities at Scampton and simply relocate TCW to Leeming. Likewise, there's obviously no logic in consolidating Hawk servicing at Scampton when the Reds could move to join 100 at Leeming rather than vice versa.
There doesn't seem to be any intention to abandon Scampton completely however, not least because units have already moved-in, and money has already been spent on the remaining parts of the admin site. Seen as English Heritage are keen to preserve the more historic buildings, it seems likely that the station will survive as a non-flying asset, and if necessary the Reds could fly down from Leeming to use the air space. However it's also worth noting that airspace reservations and use around Leeming is (it seems) about to be revised in any case...
Although the story broke on local news last week, the basic details have been floating around for a long time and when the MoD has specifically avoided denying the story, I think it's fair to assume that it must be a serious proposition. In any case, it's pretty common knowledge that the Reds are less-than enamoured by Scampton at the moment...
Anyway, that's the information as I have it, and we'll just have to wait and see what options are actually taken-up in due course.
Incidentally, re 6Z3's posting about Culdrose, do people often post-up absolute nonsense like that on this site? And if so, what's the point? I assumed the forum was intended for the exchange of information, not pointless rubbish?!
The TCW moving to Scampton is already established, but more recently it's emerged that there may not be sufficient space at Scampton for their equipment. Likewise, it appears that there was a plan to detach two Hercules with them on a sort of semi-permanent basis. However, it now seems that the move isn't so likely as lots of potential pitfalls are being raised, and Leeming has been mentioned as a better option.
It doesn't take much intelligence to work-out that when the RAF wants to keep Leeming (and the MoD hasn't specifically ruled-out Leeming as a home for the final batch of F35's if we buy them), it would make financial sense to avoid spending any more money on improving airfield facilities at Scampton and simply relocate TCW to Leeming. Likewise, there's obviously no logic in consolidating Hawk servicing at Scampton when the Reds could move to join 100 at Leeming rather than vice versa.
There doesn't seem to be any intention to abandon Scampton completely however, not least because units have already moved-in, and money has already been spent on the remaining parts of the admin site. Seen as English Heritage are keen to preserve the more historic buildings, it seems likely that the station will survive as a non-flying asset, and if necessary the Reds could fly down from Leeming to use the air space. However it's also worth noting that airspace reservations and use around Leeming is (it seems) about to be revised in any case...
Although the story broke on local news last week, the basic details have been floating around for a long time and when the MoD has specifically avoided denying the story, I think it's fair to assume that it must be a serious proposition. In any case, it's pretty common knowledge that the Reds are less-than enamoured by Scampton at the moment...
Anyway, that's the information as I have it, and we'll just have to wait and see what options are actually taken-up in due course.
Incidentally, re 6Z3's posting about Culdrose, do people often post-up absolute nonsense like that on this site? And if so, what's the point? I assumed the forum was intended for the exchange of information, not pointless rubbish?!
Since he's a naval officer, I suspect it was just a gentle leg pull!
A shame if Sunny Scampton should ever become a mere non-flying station. It's amazing how it managed to support 3 complete Vulcan squadrons of 50 aircrew each plus all their associated requirements including the storage of nuclear weapons. Yet seemingly there "isn't room" for TCW and its toys??
And wasn't it such a clever idea to flog off most of the housing.....
A shame if Sunny Scampton should ever become a mere non-flying station. It's amazing how it managed to support 3 complete Vulcan squadrons of 50 aircrew each plus all their associated requirements including the storage of nuclear weapons. Yet seemingly there "isn't room" for TCW and its toys??
And wasn't it such a clever idea to flog off most of the housing.....
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It would be far better for the RW fraternity if TSW moved from Stafford to Leeming rather than to Scampton
Last I heard was that TSW were staying put (in order to keep the 24hr west coast RTR facility available) and most of the Gurkha units were moving into Stafford to fill the space left by the vacating logistical units.
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Incidentally, re 6Z3's posting about Culdrose, do people often post-up absolute nonsense like that on this site? And if so, what's the point? I assumed the forum was intended for the exchange of information, not pointless rubbish?!
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Ah Tim,
I see you talk bollox on this site as well as Warplane! Your last post looks like a cut and paste of several posts I've seen on Warplane.co.uk from various chaps and is, in effect, clap trap!
Was it Red 1 who told you that RAFAT are not happy with Scampton or a friend of a friend of a friend? The Reds seem happy enough with what they have and as aircrew, they will be very aware of the fact that they could not be better placed in terms of airspace and transits.
B55
I see you talk bollox on this site as well as Warplane! Your last post looks like a cut and paste of several posts I've seen on Warplane.co.uk from various chaps and is, in effect, clap trap!
Was it Red 1 who told you that RAFAT are not happy with Scampton or a friend of a friend of a friend? The Reds seem happy enough with what they have and as aircrew, they will be very aware of the fact that they could not be better placed in terms of airspace and transits.
B55
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at the suggestion that TCW could be important enough to require 2 hercs on permanent stand by. I think perhaps you are being spun a line dear chap. Two *unts and a Wireless having assigned air support
. Hey why not let every 'tac' part of the RAF have aircraft on standby.Perhaps a squadron of Chinooks for TSW, a C17 for MCSU and a Vickers funbus for TPW. Forget about the relatively small size of the AT fleet, give every group of green wearing blunties with their own special badges some aircraft and to hell with supporting anyone else......
x 2
I assume you are talking as a green wearing blunty?
The AT fleet IS there to support although, I agree, the idea of dedicated assets to each formation/unit is a bit strong.
As for the badge wearing blunties, if you are going to deliver air power you need C4I and that requires quite a lot of badge wearimg blunties, christ, even blanket stackers (god forbid).
The AT fleet IS there to support although, I agree, the idea of dedicated assets to each formation/unit is a bit strong.
As for the badge wearing blunties, if you are going to deliver air power you need C4I and that requires quite a lot of badge wearimg blunties, christ, even blanket stackers (god forbid).