RAF Scampton closing before it opens?
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Re: RAF Scampton closing before it opens?
Spotter - Why do we need to commemorate the V- bombers at all? The Valiant practiced over the Pacific for armageddon . The Vulcan dropped bombs on the Falkland Islands and the Victor tanked for the Gulf War and Falklands.
Various other types in the 1950's and 60's saw far more service and the Hunter for example was at the heart of the action in many Middle East hot spots . Similarily the Canberra was bombing the Communist rebels in the jungle of Malaya or snooping deep over Yapuskin Yar at the Soviet test sites.
There is some romantic notion that the V- bombers were a massive feature of the Cold War - the reality is that besides being deeply impressive they also saw little action because of the nature of what they were.
As for Scampton - well indeed it is fairly decrepid and has been for a while. However any organisation that is without history is also without soul.
The runway at Scampton is as effective as it was 53 years ago. The infrastructure is exactly that - designed to support the use of the runway.
The notion that money spent on Scampton is stopping us having one more
Eurofighter is lunacy. The Mod is and always has been rich in assets . There are bases within the RAF that should have been closed years ago . Flying stations that have hardly any runway or none at all that can play little use in the defence of the U.K. Scampton has a good road structure - it is well located within a catchment of other stations and deserves to have money invested in it. The fact that buildings are run down and need money spending
on them is a reflection on what wasn't spent on them in the past rather than now. The probems of asbestos isn't something new - industry just gets on with it's removal and there is no reason why that should stop investment at Scampton.
Various other types in the 1950's and 60's saw far more service and the Hunter for example was at the heart of the action in many Middle East hot spots . Similarily the Canberra was bombing the Communist rebels in the jungle of Malaya or snooping deep over Yapuskin Yar at the Soviet test sites.
There is some romantic notion that the V- bombers were a massive feature of the Cold War - the reality is that besides being deeply impressive they also saw little action because of the nature of what they were.
As for Scampton - well indeed it is fairly decrepid and has been for a while. However any organisation that is without history is also without soul.
The runway at Scampton is as effective as it was 53 years ago. The infrastructure is exactly that - designed to support the use of the runway.
The notion that money spent on Scampton is stopping us having one more
Eurofighter is lunacy. The Mod is and always has been rich in assets . There are bases within the RAF that should have been closed years ago . Flying stations that have hardly any runway or none at all that can play little use in the defence of the U.K. Scampton has a good road structure - it is well located within a catchment of other stations and deserves to have money invested in it. The fact that buildings are run down and need money spending
on them is a reflection on what wasn't spent on them in the past rather than now. The probems of asbestos isn't something new - industry just gets on with it's removal and there is no reason why that should stop investment at Scampton.
Re: RAF Scampton closing before it opens?
The runway at Scampton is considerably improved over the way it was 53 years ago - it was extended and upgraded to take V-bombers several years after 1953!
The V-force kept the peace at a critical time in our history. Arguably for far longer than WW2. At its peak in 1962-63 it had 22 squadrons; Scampton was a key V-force station and deserves to be remembered as such.
The V-force kept the peace at a critical time in our history. Arguably for far longer than WW2. At its peak in 1962-63 it had 22 squadrons; Scampton was a key V-force station and deserves to be remembered as such.
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Re: RAF Scampton closing before it opens?
Scampton is expanding. We have moved to a 3 mess system, OK, they may be at different sights at the moment, but that is common sense until the build up is complete.
CRC is not the only operational unit here. Others have moved here over the past 18 months and are supporting deployed locations worldwide. Scampton is an operational station, all be it with the only flying unit being RAFAT. We just get on and do our job and dispare at the moaning going on in this forum and elsewhere!
As for signs, trivial matter, but they have been removed to make way for new Scampton "corporate" signs, that will have the names/crests of all units operating out of Scampton/KiL including 1 ACC, RAFAT, CRC etc. So a very sensible move by Harry Staish, not as others have said elsewhere.
As for the state of the hangers, 1 hangar is in very good condition, and for those interested, a Hunter has just been moved into 2 hangar, which is also in fair condition.
The runway is in need of repair, and needs work. So the plan is for RAFAT to remain in Cypress a little longer this year, then go "on tour" to allow the work to be done. They will then RETURN here when work is complete. So yet again, no story, no great issue.
Lincoln life is a load better than rural southern England where we moved from. Stop moaning, come to Lincoln. You will enjoy it!
CRC is not the only operational unit here. Others have moved here over the past 18 months and are supporting deployed locations worldwide. Scampton is an operational station, all be it with the only flying unit being RAFAT. We just get on and do our job and dispare at the moaning going on in this forum and elsewhere!
As for signs, trivial matter, but they have been removed to make way for new Scampton "corporate" signs, that will have the names/crests of all units operating out of Scampton/KiL including 1 ACC, RAFAT, CRC etc. So a very sensible move by Harry Staish, not as others have said elsewhere.
As for the state of the hangers, 1 hangar is in very good condition, and for those interested, a Hunter has just been moved into 2 hangar, which is also in fair condition.
The runway is in need of repair, and needs work. So the plan is for RAFAT to remain in Cypress a little longer this year, then go "on tour" to allow the work to be done. They will then RETURN here when work is complete. So yet again, no story, no great issue.
Lincoln life is a load better than rural southern England where we moved from. Stop moaning, come to Lincoln. You will enjoy it!
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Re: RAF Scampton closing before it opens?
Spotter,
Like any location it is what you make of it.
When we heard we were posted to Lincolnshire from the south of England we thought "Oh no, East of the A1, There be Dragons!"
But 18 months down the line, best move we have made. Lincoln has almost anything you want from ancient culture, excellent restaraunts to down right drunken debauchery.
Ask any one who has been to Ritzy's or Cloud9 
There are issues here, almost all of the folk on this unit live out, but living in town has major advantages (see above.) The only down side is the mess is now a 20 mile car trip up the A15 from home, some what limiting chances for mess life. Once the main mess here is back up and running, happy hour here we come!
Like any location it is what you make of it.
When we heard we were posted to Lincolnshire from the south of England we thought "Oh no, East of the A1, There be Dragons!"
But 18 months down the line, best move we have made. Lincoln has almost anything you want from ancient culture, excellent restaraunts to down right drunken debauchery.
Ask any one who has been to Ritzy's or Cloud9 There are issues here, almost all of the folk on this unit live out, but living in town has major advantages (see above.) The only down side is the mess is now a 20 mile car trip up the A15 from home, some what limiting chances for mess life. Once the main mess here is back up and running, happy hour here we come!
Nixor ut Ledo
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Re: RAF Scampton closing before it opens?
Having a quick trip to the UK at the moment and as I am in close proximity to Lincoln at the moment I decided to have a look at my old stamping ground at Scampton (ex 1 GSU in the Vulcan era). No 4 shed looked a bit battered and the boarded up windows in the Officers' Mess didn't look good but most of the place was very much as I remembered it. The only problem I saw was that as the quarters have been sold off and the base wired off the place seemed to have lost its soul.
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RAF Scampton goes to Leeming
MOD Press Release today:
Leeming home to new RAF communications hub
Published Tuesday 17th January 2006
RAF Leeming badgeThe teams that provide communications for the RAF when they deploy on operations will move to RAF Leeming under new plans announced by Adam Ingram, Minister for the Armed Forces, on 17 January 2006.
The move will see the RAF's Air Combat Service Support Units (ACSSUs) communications units, currently located in a range of bases across the UK, relocating to form a centre of excellence for RAF communications at RAF Leeming in North Yorkshire. Subject to Trades Union consultation more than 120 RAF Communications staff will move to RAF Leeming in 2006 with more joining them in 2007.
It was originally planned that RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire would become home to the communications hub. However, following substantial increases in estimated costs at Scampton, a review concluded that RAF Leeming will be a significantly more cost-effective option.
Adam Ingram, said:
"This is great news for RAF Leeming, which will continue to have an exciting future once the current Tornado F3 force leaves in 2008. This is the right decision for Defence, the RAF and for taxpayers. These deployable communications assets are excellent examples of the flexible, expeditionary capability that our Armed Forces need to meet modern defence challenges.
"I realise this is disappointing news for RAF Scampton and for Lincolnshire but I have to take the right decisions for defence as a whole and the taxpayer."
Group Captain Ian Morrison, RAF Leeming Station Commander, added:
"We are delighted by this news. The disbandment of XI(Fighter) Squadron in October last year, and the announcement that RAF Leeming was not an option for the Joint Combat Aircraft led to a huge amount of speculation about the future of the Station.
"However, we have always reported that further options were still being considered, and this news is good for both Defence and the Royal Air Force, who will maintain a significant presence in North Yorkshire. RAF Leeming does have a long-term future after the disbandment of our remaining Tornado Fighter Squadron in 2008, and we look forward to welcoming our new colleagues in April."
The MoD keeps the cost of all projects under review to ensure best value for money. The decision to review plans to relocate the ACSSUs to RAF Scampton was announced in December 2005 following considerable estimated cost increases. RAF Leeming offers best value for money by a margin of £55M over RAF Scampton.
The decision is subject to Trades Union consultation. It is expected that over the course of the next two years communications personnel from RAF Sealand, RAF Brize Norton and RAF High Wycombe will relocate to RAF Leeming.
Leeming home to new RAF communications hub
Published Tuesday 17th January 2006
RAF Leeming badgeThe teams that provide communications for the RAF when they deploy on operations will move to RAF Leeming under new plans announced by Adam Ingram, Minister for the Armed Forces, on 17 January 2006.
The move will see the RAF's Air Combat Service Support Units (ACSSUs) communications units, currently located in a range of bases across the UK, relocating to form a centre of excellence for RAF communications at RAF Leeming in North Yorkshire. Subject to Trades Union consultation more than 120 RAF Communications staff will move to RAF Leeming in 2006 with more joining them in 2007.
It was originally planned that RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire would become home to the communications hub. However, following substantial increases in estimated costs at Scampton, a review concluded that RAF Leeming will be a significantly more cost-effective option.
Adam Ingram, said:
"This is great news for RAF Leeming, which will continue to have an exciting future once the current Tornado F3 force leaves in 2008. This is the right decision for Defence, the RAF and for taxpayers. These deployable communications assets are excellent examples of the flexible, expeditionary capability that our Armed Forces need to meet modern defence challenges.
"I realise this is disappointing news for RAF Scampton and for Lincolnshire but I have to take the right decisions for defence as a whole and the taxpayer."
Group Captain Ian Morrison, RAF Leeming Station Commander, added:
"We are delighted by this news. The disbandment of XI(Fighter) Squadron in October last year, and the announcement that RAF Leeming was not an option for the Joint Combat Aircraft led to a huge amount of speculation about the future of the Station.
"However, we have always reported that further options were still being considered, and this news is good for both Defence and the Royal Air Force, who will maintain a significant presence in North Yorkshire. RAF Leeming does have a long-term future after the disbandment of our remaining Tornado Fighter Squadron in 2008, and we look forward to welcoming our new colleagues in April."
The MoD keeps the cost of all projects under review to ensure best value for money. The decision to review plans to relocate the ACSSUs to RAF Scampton was announced in December 2005 following considerable estimated cost increases. RAF Leeming offers best value for money by a margin of £55M over RAF Scampton.
The decision is subject to Trades Union consultation. It is expected that over the course of the next two years communications personnel from RAF Sealand, RAF Brize Norton and RAF High Wycombe will relocate to RAF Leeming.
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The Hansard statement hints at a further review of ASACS sites:
"Increased site preparation cost estimates at RAF Scampton have caused us to review whether this location remained the best value for money option for a communications hub. This work has now concluded and, subject to Trades Unions consultation, I have decided that the RAF communications hub will be formed at RAF Leeming (North Yorkshire) instead of RAF Scampton as this will be significantly more cost effective.
This means that communications personnel would move from RAF Sealand to RAF Leeming by April 2006. Communications personnel from RAF Brize Norton and RAF High Wycombe would move to RAF Leeming in 2007. The future location of ASACS units, currently at RAF Scampton, RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey and RAF Boulmer, will be the subject of further work."
Does anyone have any clue what will be included - a fair chance of another U-turn I think!
"Increased site preparation cost estimates at RAF Scampton have caused us to review whether this location remained the best value for money option for a communications hub. This work has now concluded and, subject to Trades Unions consultation, I have decided that the RAF communications hub will be formed at RAF Leeming (North Yorkshire) instead of RAF Scampton as this will be significantly more cost effective.
This means that communications personnel would move from RAF Sealand to RAF Leeming by April 2006. Communications personnel from RAF Brize Norton and RAF High Wycombe would move to RAF Leeming in 2007. The future location of ASACS units, currently at RAF Scampton, RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey and RAF Boulmer, will be the subject of further work."
Does anyone have any clue what will be included - a fair chance of another U-turn I think!
Last edited by AonP; 21st Jan 2006 at 22:42.
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I think RileyDove is rather missing the point when it comes to remembering the V-Force!
Obviously, if the V-Force had actually been used, it could have been regarded as being an heroic failure. The very fact that it never was used, ephasises that it was a huge success, and worth every penny.
The Vulcan's role in the Falklands and the Victor's role as a tanker (plus the recce role for which all three V-Bombers were used) were of course merely additional tasks which they performed admirably.
Obviously, if the V-Force had actually been used, it could have been regarded as being an heroic failure. The very fact that it never was used, ephasises that it was a huge success, and worth every penny.
The Vulcan's role in the Falklands and the Victor's role as a tanker (plus the recce role for which all three V-Bombers were used) were of course merely additional tasks which they performed admirably.
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BACK TO THE SCAMPTON DAMBUSTERS' BOARD (Page 4)
I undertook to respond to Archimedes' Q regarding the failure of the Dambusters' Board to mention the 2 Conspicuous Gallantry Medals that were awarded for the Dams Raid. I am sorry to say that I don't have a definite answer. When I first started digging, I wondered whether it was the actual targets that were the issue. Neither of these raids were successful, and there is no mention of them on the Board. The CGMs were awarded as follows:
FS K W Brown (Sorpe Dam)
FS W C Townsend (Ennepe Dam)
However, the totals for the DSOs (5), DFCs (14) and DFMs (12) obviously include the 6 DFMs and 1 DFC awarded to crews who participated in the Sorpe and Ennepe Raids. I am, therefore, at a loss as to why they weren't included. Could it be that at the time of the original Board's production, it was felt that they were lesser awards not worthy of inclusion?
STH
FS K W Brown (Sorpe Dam)
FS W C Townsend (Ennepe Dam)
However, the totals for the DSOs (5), DFCs (14) and DFMs (12) obviously include the 6 DFMs and 1 DFC awarded to crews who participated in the Sorpe and Ennepe Raids. I am, therefore, at a loss as to why they weren't included. Could it be that at the time of the original Board's production, it was felt that they were lesser awards not worthy of inclusion?
STH
Last edited by SirToppamHat; 27th Jan 2006 at 20:09.
Britain's air defence system took a leap forward at Royal Air Force Scampton
On the ModOracle site today:-
http://www.modoracle.com/?page=http:...B1FB937746B87E
Given all the discussions in the previous posts and also the recent official announcements in the House etc about the location, is the news on ModOracle today merely referring to an interim solution or is there a case of 'left hand / right hand' ?
http://www.modoracle.com/?page=http:...B1FB937746B87E
Given all the discussions in the previous posts and also the recent official announcements in the House etc about the location, is the news on ModOracle today merely referring to an interim solution or is there a case of 'left hand / right hand' ?
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The official opening took place on 25 Jan 06, following declaration of an initial operating capability on 23 Jan. Those who know me will be aware that I have a healthy distrust of official statements, and I would normally be extremely suspicious of this sort of line:
However, in this case, Air Marshal White's comments were spot on. In fact, a number of improvements and additional capabilities have been delivered simply because it was more cost-effective than not to do so.
As for the rest of Scampton, it is a shame that we will not be joined by the rest of the A6 Hub, and that the Station seems to have such a limited life. However, personally I am not convinced about the timeline for NATO ACCS, or even whether we will see it at all.
STH
"Despite being an interim programme and, therefore, not required to deliver any increase in capability, it has proven to be a quantum leap forward in user-friendliness, clear and unambiguous presentation of information and graphics and a working environment that previously fighter controllers and aerosystems operators could only dream of."
As for the rest of Scampton, it is a shame that we will not be joined by the rest of the A6 Hub, and that the Station seems to have such a limited life. However, personally I am not convinced about the timeline for NATO ACCS, or even whether we will see it at all.
STH
STH, thanks for the research. AIUI, the CGM was regarded very highly; it was awarded only rarely. I wonder if the rarity meant that whoever did the board was unaware that these gallantry medals had been awarded?
In any event, it seems something of a shame that the heroism of the two recipients isn't commemorated on the board.
In any event, it seems something of a shame that the heroism of the two recipients isn't commemorated on the board.
