The Last Tommy
For once, I believe that the Beeb deserves some credit.
Filmed two years ago, no-one expected that the film's 'conclusion' (that one of the old boys featured was the last to visit the Western Front) would turn out to be wrong. I understand that when it became clear that plans were afoot for another visit by a WWI veteran to France on Armistice Day itself it was felt that coverage of that event should not be pre-dated by this documentary. There was, in other words, a desire not to steal Henry Allingham's richly deserved thunder as he (and another of the veterans) went across this year.
At 109!
And he was a former member of the Royal Air Force.
Filmed two years ago, no-one expected that the film's 'conclusion' (that one of the old boys featured was the last to visit the Western Front) would turn out to be wrong. I understand that when it became clear that plans were afoot for another visit by a WWI veteran to France on Armistice Day itself it was felt that coverage of that event should not be pre-dated by this documentary. There was, in other words, a desire not to steal Henry Allingham's richly deserved thunder as he (and another of the veterans) went across this year.
At 109!
And he was a former member of the Royal Air Force.
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Jackonicko, hate to correct you.... but Naval Airman Allingham was one of ours!
CV reads:
Henry Allingham was born on 6 June 1896 in Clapham, London.
He joined the RNAS in 1915, training initially at Chingford. His first posting was to Great Yarmouth, as an Air Mechanic First Class, where he often flew. In early May 1916 he was ordered to join the destroyer HMS Kingfisher, equipped with a seaplane, that accompanied the fleet during the Battle of Jutland.
In 1917 he was posted to the Western Front to join No 9 Squadron (RNAS) – later No 209 Squadron (RAF) – equipped with the Sopwith Camel. Henry continued to serve in France and Belgium until the Armistice.
He was discharged in 1919 and joined Fords where he worked until retirement. Henry married Dorothy shortly after leaving the RAF. Their marriage lasted 53 years and produced two daughters. He now has 5 grandchildren and 12 great-grandchildren - all living in America.
Henry Allingham St Omer Memorial September 2004:
Henry Allingham, a 108-year old veteran of the Royal Naval Air Service, returned to France for the first time since his service there as a mechanic during the Great War to lay a wreath at the memorial, which was unveiled by Air Chief Marshal Sir Brian Burridge and Lieutenant General Jean Patrick Gaviard of the Armee de l'Air. Mr Allingham served as a Royal Naval Air Service mechanic and flew patrols in the North Sea as a navigator and is the last survivor of the Battle of Jutland in which the British Grand Fleet established dominance of the North Sea despite losing more ships on the day. He was then based at the British Air Services Aerodrome at St Omer in Northern France where he repaired aircraft and engines at the battles of the Somme and Ypres. The British airfield at St Omer was established ninety years ago in October 1914 and it quickly developed into the most important British air base during the fighting in France and Belgium in WW1. As the concept of Air Power was born and its benefits realised, the initially small British air services rapidly grew into the Royal Naval Air Service, Royal Flying Corps and Royal Air Force. More than fifty squadrons were based at some point at St Omer which was both an operational station and a major maintenance depot with over 4,000 personnel based there in 1918. The struggle for air superiority over the Lines came at a high cost with the British airmen maintaining a relentless offensive despite suffering periods of technical and tactical inferiority to the Germans, most notoriously "Bloody April" in 1917; over 8,000 airmen fell as casualties.
Representing the Royal Navy and Fleet Air Arm at the ceremony was Commodore Steve Jermy, Assistant Chief of Staff (Aviation) and Commodore Fleet Air Arm who laid a wreath and led the standing ovation when Henry Allingham laid his.
Speaking to the BBC at last year's ceremony at the Cenotaph Mr Allingham said he thought joining the war effort would be "an adventure". At that time aviation was still in its infancy and men such as Henry Allingham were pioneers: "It was the first time I went near a plane," he said, pointing out that the first powered flight in the world had only taken place a handful of years earlier. He remembers the plane he flew in the war's opening months, "my baby" as he called it, with a degree of disbelief. "They didn't have much speed with them. Sometimes they'd be coming along and the force of the wind would have you standing still. Sometimes you'd be flying backwards," he said. "You'd have to have good weather to fly.”There were two rifles in the cockpit that was all the armaments we had."
CV reads:
Henry Allingham was born on 6 June 1896 in Clapham, London.
He joined the RNAS in 1915, training initially at Chingford. His first posting was to Great Yarmouth, as an Air Mechanic First Class, where he often flew. In early May 1916 he was ordered to join the destroyer HMS Kingfisher, equipped with a seaplane, that accompanied the fleet during the Battle of Jutland.
In 1917 he was posted to the Western Front to join No 9 Squadron (RNAS) – later No 209 Squadron (RAF) – equipped with the Sopwith Camel. Henry continued to serve in France and Belgium until the Armistice.
He was discharged in 1919 and joined Fords where he worked until retirement. Henry married Dorothy shortly after leaving the RAF. Their marriage lasted 53 years and produced two daughters. He now has 5 grandchildren and 12 great-grandchildren - all living in America.
Henry Allingham St Omer Memorial September 2004:
Henry Allingham, a 108-year old veteran of the Royal Naval Air Service, returned to France for the first time since his service there as a mechanic during the Great War to lay a wreath at the memorial, which was unveiled by Air Chief Marshal Sir Brian Burridge and Lieutenant General Jean Patrick Gaviard of the Armee de l'Air. Mr Allingham served as a Royal Naval Air Service mechanic and flew patrols in the North Sea as a navigator and is the last survivor of the Battle of Jutland in which the British Grand Fleet established dominance of the North Sea despite losing more ships on the day. He was then based at the British Air Services Aerodrome at St Omer in Northern France where he repaired aircraft and engines at the battles of the Somme and Ypres. The British airfield at St Omer was established ninety years ago in October 1914 and it quickly developed into the most important British air base during the fighting in France and Belgium in WW1. As the concept of Air Power was born and its benefits realised, the initially small British air services rapidly grew into the Royal Naval Air Service, Royal Flying Corps and Royal Air Force. More than fifty squadrons were based at some point at St Omer which was both an operational station and a major maintenance depot with over 4,000 personnel based there in 1918. The struggle for air superiority over the Lines came at a high cost with the British airmen maintaining a relentless offensive despite suffering periods of technical and tactical inferiority to the Germans, most notoriously "Bloody April" in 1917; over 8,000 airmen fell as casualties.
Representing the Royal Navy and Fleet Air Arm at the ceremony was Commodore Steve Jermy, Assistant Chief of Staff (Aviation) and Commodore Fleet Air Arm who laid a wreath and led the standing ovation when Henry Allingham laid his.
Speaking to the BBC at last year's ceremony at the Cenotaph Mr Allingham said he thought joining the war effort would be "an adventure". At that time aviation was still in its infancy and men such as Henry Allingham were pioneers: "It was the first time I went near a plane," he said, pointing out that the first powered flight in the world had only taken place a handful of years earlier. He remembers the plane he flew in the war's opening months, "my baby" as he called it, with a degree of disbelief. "They didn't have much speed with them. Sometimes they'd be coming along and the force of the wind would have you standing still. Sometimes you'd be flying backwards," he said. "You'd have to have good weather to fly.”There were two rifles in the cockpit that was all the armaments we had."
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I have already written to the PM and to my MP. Positive response from MP; an automated response from PM's office.
Michael Howard, as an opportunist, will jump on any bandwagon passing...seems tasteless writing to him.
NC43
Michael Howard, as an opportunist, will jump on any bandwagon passing...seems tasteless writing to him.
NC43
Allingham himself takes some pride in being the last surviving 'founder member' of the Royal Air Force, to which he transferred on April Fool's Day 1918, and with which he remained until his demob in 1919.
The RNAS ceased to exist on the former date.
Wasn't it 209 that claimed the scalp of the Red Baron? (Yeah, yeah, I know that the claim is dodgy, insofar as the 'fatal shot' came from ahead and below).
The RNAS ceased to exist on the former date.
Wasn't it 209 that claimed the scalp of the Red Baron? (Yeah, yeah, I know that the claim is dodgy, insofar as the 'fatal shot' came from ahead and below).
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My old Dad, who flew RE8s in WW1, remembered that the Camel squadron, with whom they shared an airfield at one stage, were mostly pi$$ed when they took off on long patrols. Their party line was that the castor oil used in their rotary engines left the exhaust in a fine mist which they inhaled. To combat the laxative effect (and the cold - lets not forget they often patrolled at 20,000 ft) they had a good swig at the Cognac before take-off. And who can blame them?
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Whilst I would agree that all servicemen deserve the thanks and gratitude of the nation, Don't you think a state funeral is a bit over the top. Surely state funerals are for the Monarchy only, with very few and rare exceptions. Nelson, Wellington, Churchill are 3 I recall but don't think there are many more. Why does the last tommy to die deserve a state funeral? Why not the second to last tommy to die. What did the last tommy to die do that any other serviceman has done (apart from live a long time). Surely state funerals should be reserved for the Monarch and those very very special people who are being rewarded by the nation. If you were to conduct a quick straw poll around your office I'm sure that many people would not have heard of half of theose brave chaps who are left. You have to be careful here gents or it could turn into a joke. If the Govt were to announce that Mr Joe Bloggs had died and he was being awarded a state funeral, the general reaction would be ..."Who"?
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VVHA, Are you not missing the point - it is not the individual that it is for, but for all those who died before him. Largely unsung and with the last to go, no doubt all too soon forgotten, this offers a very special (and dare I suggest very British) act of Remembrance for a generation that suffered in ways we are lucky enough only to have to imagine.
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Well, if its not for the individual then why have a state funeral? Why not have a special day where we can remember ALL servicemen and women who have paid the ultimate sacrifice.
No, I'm sorry. I'm a great fan and strong believer of acts of rememberance BUT a state funeral is not an act of rememberance.
As far as the "Very British" comment. I recently returned from Australia where they (in the ex servicemans club) hold a minutes silence EVERY day. Maybe we should encourage that sort of rememberance.
No, I'm sorry. I'm a great fan and strong believer of acts of rememberance BUT a state funeral is not an act of rememberance.
As far as the "Very British" comment. I recently returned from Australia where they (in the ex servicemans club) hold a minutes silence EVERY day. Maybe we should encourage that sort of rememberance.
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Are you not missing the point - it is not the individual that it is for, but for all those who died before him. Largely unsung and with the last to go, no doubt all too soon forgotten, this offers a very special (and dare I suggest very British) act of Remembrance for a generation that suffered in ways we are lucky enough only to have to imagine.
By all means have a national ceremony if that's what the public want, but not specifically for the 'last Tommy' nor involving him. Have it for the remembrance of all who have died in the service of this country.
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If you were to conduct a quick straw poll around your office I'm sure that many people would not have heard of half of theose brave chaps who are left. You have to be careful here gents or it could turn into a joke.
Quick straw poll conducted. Out of 9 colleagues all 9 knew what I was talking about and all 9 were in favour of a state funeral if it were in line with the families wishes.
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Quick straw popll of my office -
Question " Would you support a state funeral for Henry Allingham?"
Result - out of 13 polled. 13 said "Who?"
I'm sure that most of you don't understand the pain and grief involved in a state funeral. If your Grandfather died would you really want to parade his coffin through the streets of London with horses drawing the gun carriage bolted, and ratings from the Royal Navy hauling the carriage to the Royal Chapel?
Televised live with press hounding your doorstep. Magazine articles, newspaper articles. Radio, TV all baying at your door for a snippet of gossip.
Or would you go for the quiet, family affair. Just a few close friends and relatives who would give the old chap a respectful and dignified send off.
Question " Would you support a state funeral for Henry Allingham?"
Result - out of 13 polled. 13 said "Who?"
I'm sure that most of you don't understand the pain and grief involved in a state funeral. If your Grandfather died would you really want to parade his coffin through the streets of London with horses drawing the gun carriage bolted, and ratings from the Royal Navy hauling the carriage to the Royal Chapel?
Televised live with press hounding your doorstep. Magazine articles, newspaper articles. Radio, TV all baying at your door for a snippet of gossip.
Or would you go for the quiet, family affair. Just a few close friends and relatives who would give the old chap a respectful and dignified send off.
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The sticking point seems to be the focus on the individual and the manner of the service. I would love something fitting to be done but can also see sympathy for the school of though that the individual themselves would not normally warrant such a funeral.
I would suggest that when the time comes, a state funeral (or somethng appropriately grand) is held for the Unknown Soldier instead - there were many and they represent the collective sacrifice as much as the individual. Whether it is an empty coffin or one of the missing recovered probably doesn't really matter.
I would suggest that when the time comes, a state funeral (or somethng appropriately grand) is held for the Unknown Soldier instead - there were many and they represent the collective sacrifice as much as the individual. Whether it is an empty coffin or one of the missing recovered probably doesn't really matter.
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It might not have been classed as a state funeral for the Unknown soldier but it was still a pretty impressive affair
The HMS Verdun, escorted by six warships, transported the Unknown Soldier to Dover, where the coffin's arrival was greeted with a 19-gun salute. Six warrant officers from the Royal Navy, Royal Marines, Royal Air Force and Royal Army then bore the coffin home to British soil to be taken by train to Victoria Station in London.
On the morning of November 11, six black horses drew the carriage that bore the Unknown Soldier through London's crowd-lined streets, pausing at The Mall, Whitehall, where the Cenotaph was unveiled by King George V. The King, his three sons, members of the Royal Family and Ministers of State then followed the coffin through the streets to the north entrance of Westminster Abbey.
At the west end of the Nave in Westminster Abbey the Unknown Soldier was laid to rest after passing through an honor guard that consisted of 100 recipients of the Victoria Cross (both British and Canadian). Following the hymn "Lead Kindly Light", King George V sprinkled soil from the battlefield at Ypres. (Six barrels of Ypres earth accompanied the Unknown Soldier home to England so that his coffin might lie on the soil where so many of his comrades had lost their lives.
For seven days the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier of Great Britain lay under the watchful eye of a military guard while thousands of mourners passed by to leave their last respects. On November 18 a temporary stone sealed the grave, inscribed with the words:
"A British Warrior Who Fell in the Great War 1914-1918 for King and Country. Greater Love Hath No Man Than This."
On the morning of November 11, six black horses drew the carriage that bore the Unknown Soldier through London's crowd-lined streets, pausing at The Mall, Whitehall, where the Cenotaph was unveiled by King George V. The King, his three sons, members of the Royal Family and Ministers of State then followed the coffin through the streets to the north entrance of Westminster Abbey.
At the west end of the Nave in Westminster Abbey the Unknown Soldier was laid to rest after passing through an honor guard that consisted of 100 recipients of the Victoria Cross (both British and Canadian). Following the hymn "Lead Kindly Light", King George V sprinkled soil from the battlefield at Ypres. (Six barrels of Ypres earth accompanied the Unknown Soldier home to England so that his coffin might lie on the soil where so many of his comrades had lost their lives.
For seven days the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier of Great Britain lay under the watchful eye of a military guard while thousands of mourners passed by to leave their last respects. On November 18 a temporary stone sealed the grave, inscribed with the words:
"A British Warrior Who Fell in the Great War 1914-1918 for King and Country. Greater Love Hath No Man Than This."
It would appear that from the two replies that I've had so far(from HRH and the PM), that a state funeral is the MoD's department, and letters are being forwarded to them.
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Vvha
The point is that the whole thing is symbolic. Henry Allingham is the LAST of a generation of servicemen and women who fought in a conflict that involved losses and sufferring on an unimaginable toll, over a prolonged period of time. Symbollically he or an unknown soldier deserves a state funeral far more than Winston Churchill. I agree with all of those who comment that he(Henry)and his family may not want this, i like the idea of an unknown soldier though. It is a vote of the most sincere thanks from the people of this country to a generation who sacrificed everything on our behalf. War is a dreadful thing and servicemen continue to give the ultimate sacrifice as we speak(write!), but short of a nuclear conflict the scale of loss on both sides during WW1 will take a lot of beating.
.
C130 Techies office is clearly full of well informed people who are up-to-date with current affairs. I am left feeling that the chaps in your office can only read the Daily Sport - just an observation.
The point is that the whole thing is symbolic. Henry Allingham is the LAST of a generation of servicemen and women who fought in a conflict that involved losses and sufferring on an unimaginable toll, over a prolonged period of time. Symbollically he or an unknown soldier deserves a state funeral far more than Winston Churchill. I agree with all of those who comment that he(Henry)and his family may not want this, i like the idea of an unknown soldier though. It is a vote of the most sincere thanks from the people of this country to a generation who sacrificed everything on our behalf. War is a dreadful thing and servicemen continue to give the ultimate sacrifice as we speak(write!), but short of a nuclear conflict the scale of loss on both sides during WW1 will take a lot of beating.
.
Quick straw popll of my office -Question " Would you support a state funeral for Henry Allingham?"
Result - out of 13 polled. 13 said "Who?"
Result - out of 13 polled. 13 said "Who?"
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Sorry Tigs
Henry Allingham isn't the last. Wikipedia lists the following still surviving as well as the veterans from other countries.
Allingham, Henry, b. 6 June 1896
Butcher, Stephen, Navy, b. 20 February 1904
Choles, Claude, Navy, b. 3 March 1901 (born in the UK and fought in the British army; subsequently emigrated to Australia)
Cummins, Kenneth, Navy, b. 6 March 1900
Lawton, Professor Harold, East Yorkshire Regiment, b. 27 July 1899
Lucas, Syd(ney), b. 21 September 1900 (Australian resident; fought for the UK)
Newcombe, Harry, Sussex Regiment, b. circa 1900
Pajaczkowski, Jerzy, b. 19 July 1894 (born in Austria-Hungary)
Patch, Harry, Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry, b. 17 June 1898
Rigby, Andrew, First Lancashire Fusiliers, b. 2 November 1900
Roberts, William ("Bill"), Royal Flying Corps, b. 29 September 1900
Stone, William ("Bill"), Navy, b. 23 September 1900
Swarbrick, Nicholas, Merchant Navy, b. 14 November 1898
Young, Will(iam), Royal Flying Corps, b. 4 January 1900 (same as for Choles and Lucas; went over to Australia after World War II)
Henry Allingham isn't the last. Wikipedia lists the following still surviving as well as the veterans from other countries.
Allingham, Henry, b. 6 June 1896
Butcher, Stephen, Navy, b. 20 February 1904
Choles, Claude, Navy, b. 3 March 1901 (born in the UK and fought in the British army; subsequently emigrated to Australia)
Cummins, Kenneth, Navy, b. 6 March 1900
Lawton, Professor Harold, East Yorkshire Regiment, b. 27 July 1899
Lucas, Syd(ney), b. 21 September 1900 (Australian resident; fought for the UK)
Newcombe, Harry, Sussex Regiment, b. circa 1900
Pajaczkowski, Jerzy, b. 19 July 1894 (born in Austria-Hungary)
Patch, Harry, Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry, b. 17 June 1898
Rigby, Andrew, First Lancashire Fusiliers, b. 2 November 1900
Roberts, William ("Bill"), Royal Flying Corps, b. 29 September 1900
Stone, William ("Bill"), Navy, b. 23 September 1900
Swarbrick, Nicholas, Merchant Navy, b. 14 November 1898
Young, Will(iam), Royal Flying Corps, b. 4 January 1900 (same as for Choles and Lucas; went over to Australia after World War II)
Last edited by November4; 21st Nov 2005 at 17:22.
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BBC News reporting that Alfred Anderson died this morning
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4456234.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4456234.stm