Dara
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Dara
How is it in this day and age of lean and cost cutting, the Airforce can afford to give 90 airmen to work for a civvy company?
I'm referring to DARA Fleetlands!
For some months now the airforce has had some 90 people seconded to DARA to carry out the Minor/Minor* maintenance of the Chinooks.
DARA apparently outbid the airforce to win the contract to carry out this maintenance! Hardly surprising when you end up with half your staff being paid for by the tax payer, nice little earner!!
Of course, the blue suits are now having to work harder, have their tea breaks and lunch breaks (this is second (or is it third??) line, oh no, it's depth now isn't it)all but taken away. The singlies are having to live in 10 man rooms at HMS Sultan, which is a training base, and so they are being treated as trainies. Everyone else is transported from Odiham leaving at 5am.
All this to bail out a company that has never produced an aircraft on time (they've always done the Majors!).
Couple this with the fact that Odiham has now lost 90 odd people on the guard/station duties list so these now come around much more often.
Still, at least they're not subject to the dreaded LEAN!!!!
If there are any journo's out there reading this, this might make a good little "taxpayers bail out civvy company", "waste of taxpayers money" story!
I'm referring to DARA Fleetlands!
For some months now the airforce has had some 90 people seconded to DARA to carry out the Minor/Minor* maintenance of the Chinooks.
DARA apparently outbid the airforce to win the contract to carry out this maintenance! Hardly surprising when you end up with half your staff being paid for by the tax payer, nice little earner!!
Of course, the blue suits are now having to work harder, have their tea breaks and lunch breaks (this is second (or is it third??) line, oh no, it's depth now isn't it)all but taken away. The singlies are having to live in 10 man rooms at HMS Sultan, which is a training base, and so they are being treated as trainies. Everyone else is transported from Odiham leaving at 5am.
All this to bail out a company that has never produced an aircraft on time (they've always done the Majors!).
Couple this with the fact that Odiham has now lost 90 odd people on the guard/station duties list so these now come around much more often.
Still, at least they're not subject to the dreaded LEAN!!!!
If there are any journo's out there reading this, this might make a good little "taxpayers bail out civvy company", "waste of taxpayers money" story!
CashMachine,
DARA is not a "Civvy" company, DARA is the Ministry of Defence.
DARA is not a "Civvy" company, DARA is the Ministry of Defence.
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Well I actually agree with the sentiment behind Cash's message.
Ten man rooms? Nice!
Show me a civvy company that'd treat it's employees like that?
Oil rigs for example (ok different environment but still a pain in the ar$e) they do two weeks on, two weeks off, where off really means "off" and the pay is phenominal. It may be a harsher working environemt but a large part of those terms are to compensate for a crap working day.
Civvy life is worse?....Friend of mine is a tels engineer and covers an MOD contract. Fair play, he wrote it in to his terms that being on call is worth time-and-a-half because he can't go anywhere AND is suffering skills-fade in the process, and also gets genuine time off in lieu of days on call REGARDLESS of whether he gets called in or not.
And his basic is more too.
All this LEAN bolleau has echoes of Victorian mill ownership if you ask me with people now having the level of commitment dictated to them in their terms of employment being thoroughly abused.
"If you don't like it, leave....oh that's right, you can't do that for another x years without paying £x"
(Rant off)
Ten man rooms? Nice!
Show me a civvy company that'd treat it's employees like that?
Oil rigs for example (ok different environment but still a pain in the ar$e) they do two weeks on, two weeks off, where off really means "off" and the pay is phenominal. It may be a harsher working environemt but a large part of those terms are to compensate for a crap working day.
Civvy life is worse?....Friend of mine is a tels engineer and covers an MOD contract. Fair play, he wrote it in to his terms that being on call is worth time-and-a-half because he can't go anywhere AND is suffering skills-fade in the process, and also gets genuine time off in lieu of days on call REGARDLESS of whether he gets called in or not.
And his basic is more too.
All this LEAN bolleau has echoes of Victorian mill ownership if you ask me with people now having the level of commitment dictated to them in their terms of employment being thoroughly abused.
"If you don't like it, leave....oh that's right, you can't do that for another x years without paying £x"
(Rant off)
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>> How is it in this day and age of lean and cost cutting, the Airforce can afford to give 90 airmen to work for a civvy company?
It's because the RAF have far too many blue suits who have nothing better to do. DARA is not a 'civvy company' it is part of the MoD. By utilising the considerable spare capacity of servicemen, the MoD benefits from a lower cost, though the inherent inefficiency of servicemen compared to civilians negates the effect slightly.
>> DARA apparently outbid the airforce to win the contract to carry out this maintenance!
I understand that DARA carries out this work as a sub-contractor to Boeing and that the MoD mandates that servicemen are utilised to do part of the maintenance. This is to help maintain their skills and reduce the price.
>> Of course, the blue suits are now having to work harder, have their tea breaks and lunch breaks (this is second (or is it third??) line, oh no, it's depth now isn't it)all but taken away.
My heart bleeds blue blood.
>> All this to bail out a company that has never produced an aircraft on time (they've always done the Majors!).
Do you have any evidence to support your assertion?
>> If there are any journo's out there reading this, this might make a good little "taxpayers bail out civvy company", "waste of taxpayers money" story!
Unlikely because even the journo's would do some research before writing such a story or making such a claim.
It's because the RAF have far too many blue suits who have nothing better to do. DARA is not a 'civvy company' it is part of the MoD. By utilising the considerable spare capacity of servicemen, the MoD benefits from a lower cost, though the inherent inefficiency of servicemen compared to civilians negates the effect slightly.
>> DARA apparently outbid the airforce to win the contract to carry out this maintenance!
I understand that DARA carries out this work as a sub-contractor to Boeing and that the MoD mandates that servicemen are utilised to do part of the maintenance. This is to help maintain their skills and reduce the price.
>> Of course, the blue suits are now having to work harder, have their tea breaks and lunch breaks (this is second (or is it third??) line, oh no, it's depth now isn't it)all but taken away.
My heart bleeds blue blood.
>> All this to bail out a company that has never produced an aircraft on time (they've always done the Majors!).
Do you have any evidence to support your assertion?
>> If there are any journo's out there reading this, this might make a good little "taxpayers bail out civvy company", "waste of taxpayers money" story!
Unlikely because even the journo's would do some research before writing such a story or making such a claim.
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<pedanticmode>
I think you will find that it is not the "Airforce" or "airforce" but the Royal Air Force, RAF or, if you really must
Air Force 
</pedanticmode>
MadMark!!!
I think you will find that it is not the "Airforce" or "airforce" but the Royal Air Force, RAF or, if you really must
Air Force </pedanticmode>
MadMark!!!
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It's because the RAF have far too many blue suits who have nothing better to do
even the journo's would do some research before writing such a story or making such a claim
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Civvy street Cash Machine. Get used to it, no featherbedding out here.
If the civvies are required to work overtime they're paid for it. Obviously, we're paid our lottery wins every month to work whenever our lords and masters say!
I think you will find that it is not the "Airforce" or "airforce" but the Royal Air Force, RAF or, if you really must Air Force
K are you on Mad_Mark??I think you\'ll actually find nowadays it\'s the roYAl aIR fARce!
Steve_cbe
Do you have any evidence to support your assertion?
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What the F K are you on Mad_Mark??
K are you on Mad_Mark??
Try stepping away from the keyboard and sleeping off your agressiveness 
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>> I'm pretty sure I (or any trained monkey) could find plenty of evidence!
OK, I look forward to your evidence in support of the claim that DARA have never produced an aircraft on time. I'll give you until Christmas...
OK, I look forward to your evidence in support of the claim that DARA have never produced an aircraft on time. I'll give you until Christmas...
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
DARA is not a "Civvy" company, DARA is the Ministry of Defence.
Hmm, thats like saying the Met Office is MOD. Like many other parts of the military DARA was "spun Off" as an agency/Trading fund with a remit to make a profit. They arw a commercial organisation with a board of directors. Last year they had a Return of Capital Employed of 6.7%.
And no, they would not get away with treating civilain employees like that - and neither should the MOD to save money. It's akin to the Russian army selling their soldiers to farmers as slave labour.
Hmm, thats like saying the Met Office is MOD. Like many other parts of the military DARA was "spun Off" as an agency/Trading fund with a remit to make a profit. They arw a commercial organisation with a board of directors. Last year they had a Return of Capital Employed of 6.7%.
And no, they would not get away with treating civilain employees like that - and neither should the MOD to save money. It's akin to the Russian army selling their soldiers to farmers as slave labour.
Last edited by ORAC; 3rd Nov 2005 at 06:14.
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In answer to the question about who is paying the blue suits whilst they work for DARA, having just left an agency after a 3 year stint I was under the impression that our wages were paid out of the agency's budget rather the the RAF's as a whole, hence the reason agencies are so keen to civilianise any military posts within it as soon as possible (as in my case) because its cheaper to employ civvies.
Of course it all comes out of the same pot at the end of the day but its just my 2p worth....
Of course it all comes out of the same pot at the end of the day but its just my 2p worth....
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What Planet Are You On
steve_cbe
The idea that the RAF has idle manpower with nothing to do is utter cr@p. Most operational units that I know is experiencing some sort of overstretch whether it be OOA, guard commitments, technical difficulties etc and its going to get worse as the redundancies kick in and the tasking goes up early next year.
In most cases the guys are just getting on quietly with the job they are paid to do. What they don't need is to be further burdened covering up for other peoples failings and to be treated like sh1t in the process.
What they also don't need is prats like you spouting cr@p about something you obviously know nothing about. I notice that your profile is empty. Its so easy to snipe from behind anonimity
The idea that the RAF has idle manpower with nothing to do is utter cr@p. Most operational units that I know is experiencing some sort of overstretch whether it be OOA, guard commitments, technical difficulties etc and its going to get worse as the redundancies kick in and the tasking goes up early next year.
In most cases the guys are just getting on quietly with the job they are paid to do. What they don't need is to be further burdened covering up for other peoples failings and to be treated like sh1t in the process.
What they also don't need is prats like you spouting cr@p about something you obviously know nothing about. I notice that your profile is empty. Its so easy to snipe from behind anonimity
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I understood that the RAF had an "excessive" manpower problem. In sunny Kernow we have numerous RAF maintainers working for the RN (I understand its the same at Yeovilton).
I was told that this was because of Typhoon, in so much as the RAF recruited lots of guys to work on the Typhoon but because of delays these guys couldn't be employed by the RAF and they were farmed out to work for the RN. Not sure when the RAF are going to get these guys back but its great having them here. Thanks RAF
I was told that this was because of Typhoon, in so much as the RAF recruited lots of guys to work on the Typhoon but because of delays these guys couldn't be employed by the RAF and they were farmed out to work for the RN. Not sure when the RAF are going to get these guys back but its great having them here. Thanks RAF
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Southside, don't be fooled into thinking that just because the RAF has people at Yeovilton (and possibly elsewhere working alongside our RN colleagues) that this means there is an 'excess' of SACs, Cpls, Sgts and CTs. Have a look at the number of Dark Blue suits at RAF Cottesmore and RAF Wittering these days.
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But thats where the dark blue work. Thats their base. Whereas the RAF guys who now work for the RN are only here until the RAF can find employment for them. The Dark blue at Witt and Cott will be there for...well, as long as there is a JHF.
I'm not getting at the crabs here (oddly) but just feel that its strange that some people on here complain that there isn't enough people when in reality the RAF have lots of guys who have been farmed out to the RN as the RAF don't have enough work for them.
I'm not getting at the crabs here (oddly) but just feel that its strange that some people on here complain that there isn't enough people when in reality the RAF have lots of guys who have been farmed out to the RN as the RAF don't have enough work for them.
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Well, I can't comment with authority on what jobs the men and women in light blue are doing at Yeovilton (and elsewhere) so I'm not going to try. What I can say with a fair degree of confidence is that although it may appear that the RAF is under tasked, we're not. It may appear that we have an 'excess' of manpower - we don't. We're haemorrhaging experience at every level and the workload on those left behind is becoming unmanageable.
As an aside, and getting back to the DARA theme, the BBC covered DARA St.Athan back in September:
http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/low/wales/4213152.stm
It was the quote from John Smith MP that "The RAF is good at fighting wars. What they are hopeless at is repairing aircraft in factories..." that really p1ssed me off. I recommend that Mr Smith has a closer look at the 'quality' product that DARA St. Athan have pushed out in the past. It might appear more cost effective to have cheap civvis doing the work but not when light blue techies have to spend weeks putting right all the snags found after the 's' aircraft is delivered back to the RAF.
As an aside, and getting back to the DARA theme, the BBC covered DARA St.Athan back in September:
http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/low/wales/4213152.stm
It was the quote from John Smith MP that "The RAF is good at fighting wars. What they are hopeless at is repairing aircraft in factories..." that really p1ssed me off. I recommend that Mr Smith has a closer look at the 'quality' product that DARA St. Athan have pushed out in the past. It might appear more cost effective to have cheap civvis doing the work but not when light blue techies have to spend weeks putting right all the snags found after the 's' aircraft is delivered back to the RAF.