Civvy Stackers
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Civvy Stackers
Having just been to clothing stores I was shocked by one of the old crusties today!!!!!!!
Having previously been groundcrew, I have been issued with all the good gear eg. safety shoes, overalls etc. etc.....................
Now that I am aircrew, I also have all the aircrew stuff, and a very full garage!!
Today though I wanted to EXCHANGE my old safety shoes for a new pair, as signed for in my blue book. To my dismay, the civilian supply operative told me that I was not scaled for them and that I should not even have my own pair!?!! He said that I should have handed all my groundcrew kit in before I became aircrew!
I can understand if it was essential kit etc. I wouldn't want to do that anyway, but I do think he was being slightly anal.
What next?
Having previously been groundcrew, I have been issued with all the good gear eg. safety shoes, overalls etc. etc.....................
Now that I am aircrew, I also have all the aircrew stuff, and a very full garage!!
Today though I wanted to EXCHANGE my old safety shoes for a new pair, as signed for in my blue book. To my dismay, the civilian supply operative told me that I was not scaled for them and that I should not even have my own pair!?!! He said that I should have handed all my groundcrew kit in before I became aircrew!
I can understand if it was essential kit etc. I wouldn't want to do that anyway, but I do think he was being slightly anal.
What next?
Why on earth should you get a new pair of safety shoes paid for by the taxpayer!
If your job needs it, then get scaled for it - otherwise what the hell makes you think that my taxes should buy you footware to do your home DIY chores in!
And you think the storeman was being anal... words fail me.
If your job needs it, then get scaled for it - otherwise what the hell makes you think that my taxes should buy you footware to do your home DIY chores in!
And you think the storeman was being anal... words fail me.
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I totally agree with RLE.
If you're entitled then you can be issued with it. If not entitled, do what the rest of us have to do ...... put your hand in your pocket and go downtown and buy it.
AS for your thread title, I would hope that any other civvy or mil storeperson would have done exactly the same, but maybe with your attitude you would have given a blue-suiter a harder time and thereby helped to fuel any underlying 'resentment issues'.
If you're entitled then you can be issued with it. If not entitled, do what the rest of us have to do ...... put your hand in your pocket and go downtown and buy it.
AS for your thread title, I would hope that any other civvy or mil storeperson would have done exactly the same, but maybe with your attitude you would have given a blue-suiter a harder time and thereby helped to fuel any underlying 'resentment issues'.
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RCOV
Remember when you were groundcrew and you had to wait 8 weeks for a pair of safety boots? Well know you know why. Too many Tom, Dick and Harrys not scaled for them snaffling them up.
Remember when you were groundcrew and you had to wait 8 weeks for a pair of safety boots? Well know you know why. Too many Tom, Dick and Harrys not scaled for them snaffling them up.
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Come now, you said it yourself "I went to the Stores". Had you said "I went to the Issues" then I would understand that you were trying to get something for nothing. Everyone knows that stores are for storing. And if it is the last one, the storeman has the right to withhold issuing it (even if scaled), because someone might need it.
In Army units, paint thinners is like rocking horse $hit. So paint brushes don't get cleaned. So they go hard, and then have to be replaced. Unfortunately a new paint brush is even more scarce than rocking horse droppings.
Imagine my surprise when I tried my luck at RAF stores, and the storeman takes me into the stores, and there is an ENTIRE DUSTBIN full of 3" paint brushes. Must have been hundreds of them in there. Chancing my arm, I asked if there was any chance of thinners. So, off we go to paint store, to find a whole pallet of 25 gallon drums of the stuff. I wouldnt mind, but this was at Upavon, where the MT fleet consisted mostly of staff cars and fire engines. Neither of which got painted with brushes.
As for the clothing store, I exchanged some green kit. They didnt have much (surprise surprise), but were quite happy to indent for it. A couple of weeks pass by, and a chit comes in the mail asking me to go and pick up the new kit. They didnt want the old ones back. Unheard of in the Army. Being young and stupid, I kicked the ar$e out of this and got a lot of spare kit. The novelty wore off after a while, and we played the game. It all evens out eventually. We did a nice line in black leather NI gloves, which the blue jobs werent entitled to, but we could get though our parent unit. Very popular with rocks and snowdrops. As their goretex was with us. Seemed a fair exchange, a Ł20 pair of gloves for a Ł100 jacket.
It's just a game, and the only rule is "dont get caught". Or is that the young and stupid view?
In Army units, paint thinners is like rocking horse $hit. So paint brushes don't get cleaned. So they go hard, and then have to be replaced. Unfortunately a new paint brush is even more scarce than rocking horse droppings.
Imagine my surprise when I tried my luck at RAF stores, and the storeman takes me into the stores, and there is an ENTIRE DUSTBIN full of 3" paint brushes. Must have been hundreds of them in there. Chancing my arm, I asked if there was any chance of thinners. So, off we go to paint store, to find a whole pallet of 25 gallon drums of the stuff. I wouldnt mind, but this was at Upavon, where the MT fleet consisted mostly of staff cars and fire engines. Neither of which got painted with brushes.
As for the clothing store, I exchanged some green kit. They didnt have much (surprise surprise), but were quite happy to indent for it. A couple of weeks pass by, and a chit comes in the mail asking me to go and pick up the new kit. They didnt want the old ones back. Unheard of in the Army. Being young and stupid, I kicked the ar$e out of this and got a lot of spare kit. The novelty wore off after a while, and we played the game. It all evens out eventually. We did a nice line in black leather NI gloves, which the blue jobs werent entitled to, but we could get though our parent unit. Very popular with rocks and snowdrops. As their goretex was with us. Seemed a fair exchange, a Ł20 pair of gloves for a Ł100 jacket.
It's just a game, and the only rule is "dont get caught". Or is that the young and stupid view?
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Fairs, fair. It's well known that everyone plays the game and thats fine as long as it all goes towards the 'good cause', i.e. N.I. gloves for rockapes who are actually out in the cold, but boots to do the gardening in? A bit far me thinks.
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For once I am in agreement with the stackers. They should provide the right kit at the right time. When they fail give them sh1t. But when they do their job to provide right kit to THOSE THAT NEED IT at the right time, then don't slag them off for not giving you the wrong kit at the wrong time.
UNM
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Remember on more than one occasion being told that I couldn't exchange my old crappy flying gloves with holes in them for new ones. None available - however all the blunties had great gardening gloves!!
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As you can tell by my login name I am a Supplier. Coincidently I've just moved from a unit where i spent 3 years running among other sections, Clothing Stores.
The civilian 'supply operative' (civvies are actually storekeepers) was spot on. You are not entitled so you don't get and when you re-traded you should have returned the kit that was specific to your previous scale.
As for the actual supplying of safety footwear this is done through a direct supply contract with the appropriate Defcon paperwork made out to a specified individual having to be counter-signed by a WO Supplier or above. Obviously when having to pass over hurdles of accountability such as these (and a nice paper trail) it gets a little more difficult to issue it as gash kit.
(Edited as 'Mr C' obviously doesn't have a sense of humour nor do they seem to understand the 'smilies' commonly found on internet forum. Perhaps they are someone who has been 'leaned' a bit too far.....)
The civilian 'supply operative' (civvies are actually storekeepers) was spot on. You are not entitled so you don't get and when you re-traded you should have returned the kit that was specific to your previous scale.
As for the actual supplying of safety footwear this is done through a direct supply contract with the appropriate Defcon paperwork made out to a specified individual having to be counter-signed by a WO Supplier or above. Obviously when having to pass over hurdles of accountability such as these (and a nice paper trail) it gets a little more difficult to issue it as gash kit.
(Edited as 'Mr C' obviously doesn't have a sense of humour nor do they seem to understand the 'smilies' commonly found on internet forum. Perhaps they are someone who has been 'leaned' a bit too far.....)
Last edited by The Helpful Stacker; 2nd Nov 2005 at 06:35.
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I am a Supplier. Coincidently I've just moved from a unit where i spent 3 years running among other sections
I trust said stacker wasn't wearing the de-riguer "personal aviation chronometry device (wrist mounted)"?
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Helpful
I refrain from personal attacks on this forum - they are not constructive. However, you are a plank of the highest order. You are asking for trouble and - what is far worse - setting a shocking precedent for anyone who ever works for you.
As an officer and a flight commander, you need to put the requirements of your troops highest. You are leaving them and yourself open for a world class kicking with such a posting. Something as stupid as this would end up in more than just your own pension out the window. Thanks from the rest of the branch.
I refrain from personal attacks on this forum - they are not constructive. However, you are a plank of the highest order. You are asking for trouble and - what is far worse - setting a shocking precedent for anyone who ever works for you.
As an officer and a flight commander, you need to put the requirements of your troops highest. You are leaving them and yourself open for a world class kicking with such a posting. Something as stupid as this would end up in more than just your own pension out the window. Thanks from the rest of the branch.
Mr C
Well said. I have nothing but praise for the Civilians at my unit. I get what I am entilted to and I pay for the rest. If you are in a position of responsibilty you should act accordingly. You pull stupid stunts in civvy street, you get the push. Maybe we should do the same.
Well said. I have nothing but praise for the Civilians at my unit. I get what I am entilted to and I pay for the rest. If you are in a position of responsibilty you should act accordingly. You pull stupid stunts in civvy street, you get the push. Maybe we should do the same.
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Helpful,
Whilst I fully agree with the general "if you are not entitled you should'nt have it" theory in my experiance there are two types of folks in her majesties finest, "jobsworth's" and "can do's"
You see examples of both in every trade and a couple of classic's in this thread
Ask most folks who they prefer and people with a can do attitude win hands down every time. Mr C obviously come from the old school of supply where the "NO you can't have it" mantra is taught from day 1 whilst you obviously failed that part of the course.................well done and continue in the same vein
Wyler........get a life
"You pull stupid stunts in civvy street, you get the push" That ethic has not been at the fore front of government policy this week, has it chap
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Whilst I fully agree with the general "if you are not entitled you should'nt have it" theory in my experiance there are two types of folks in her majesties finest, "jobsworth's"
and "can do's" You see examples of both in every trade and a couple of classic's in this thread Ask most folks who they prefer and people with a can do attitude win hands down every time. Mr C obviously come from the old school of supply where the "NO you can't have it" mantra is taught from day 1 whilst you obviously failed that part of the course.................well done and continue in the same vein
Wyler........get a life
"You pull stupid stunts in civvy street, you get the push" That ethic has not been at the fore front of government policy this week, has it chap
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Thanks for the response ABIW.
Of course scales of entitlement are there for a reason but being able to 'do a favour' occasionally is only human. I wasn't talking about allowing service persons to issue RB199's to the station Go-Kart club but the occasional consumable item (ie; extra socks and T-shirts for the poor saps going off to the desert).
I wonder how many times an MT Tech has been asked to have a look at someones (non-service) car or how many chefs have knocked up plates of sandwiches etc for AGM's.
Yes, bottom line is persons are entitled to what they are scaled and no more but is Mt C Hinecap trying to tell me that every single trade in the RAF operates exactly to the letter of the law (AP, QR or other)?
He who without sin...
Of course scales of entitlement are there for a reason but being able to 'do a favour' occasionally is only human. I wasn't talking about allowing service persons to issue RB199's to the station Go-Kart club but the occasional consumable item (ie; extra socks and T-shirts for the poor saps going off to the desert).
I wonder how many times an MT Tech has been asked to have a look at someones (non-service) car or how many chefs have knocked up plates of sandwiches etc for AGM's.
Yes, bottom line is persons are entitled to what they are scaled and no more but is Mt C Hinecap trying to tell me that every single trade in the RAF operates exactly to the letter of the law (AP, QR or other)?
He who without sin...
"You pull stupid stunts in civvy street, you get the push" That ethic has not been at the fore front of government policy this week, has it chap
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Doh
......just proves you can't trust a politician
Although, technically, as he resigned and did not get the push my previous statement has some validity
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
......just proves you can't trust a politician Although, technically, as he resigned and did not get the push my previous statement has some validity
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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He resigned??? I think he was pushed. Too much of an embarassment for Blair.
Given Mandelson's performances - in every way, I think, worse than anything Blunkett (in his stupidity/naiveté, whatever) has done - Blunkett will probably be back in the Cabinet next July.
As for the supply issues, I'm lucky to be at a Stn where Serco, for whatever reason, actually do a decent job instead of ripping the Service off and annoying people. We get what we need in time, and don't have to battle the system. My past experience indicates that the old formula of Service = Good, Civvy = Bad, is usually correct.
ISTR at Cranwell that the (Eurest Services) storemen were particularly nasty. Some years ago I tried swapping an old pair of DMS shoes there; one shoe had split at the heel seam. Although they had one pair left in my size (having issued to an IOT cse that morning), they were adamant that they wouldn't swap my shoes because the pair they had remaining was for "emergencies". No point trying to argue with these people. Upon returning to Coltishall the RAF storeman replaced the shoes immediately and without hassle.
Mr C might be the exception - sometimes, slavishly sticking to the book causes nightmarish delays and discontent. Helpful Stacker, judging by his original post, seems more willing to go out of his way to help people. I know who I'd rather speak to in stores.
Given Mandelson's performances - in every way, I think, worse than anything Blunkett (in his stupidity/naiveté, whatever) has done - Blunkett will probably be back in the Cabinet next July.
As for the supply issues, I'm lucky to be at a Stn where Serco, for whatever reason, actually do a decent job instead of ripping the Service off and annoying people. We get what we need in time, and don't have to battle the system. My past experience indicates that the old formula of Service = Good, Civvy = Bad, is usually correct.
ISTR at Cranwell that the (Eurest Services) storemen were particularly nasty. Some years ago I tried swapping an old pair of DMS shoes there; one shoe had split at the heel seam. Although they had one pair left in my size (having issued to an IOT cse that morning), they were adamant that they wouldn't swap my shoes because the pair they had remaining was for "emergencies". No point trying to argue with these people. Upon returning to Coltishall the RAF storeman replaced the shoes immediately and without hassle.
Mr C might be the exception - sometimes, slavishly sticking to the book causes nightmarish delays and discontent. Helpful Stacker, judging by his original post, seems more willing to go out of his way to help people. I know who I'd rather speak to in stores.
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Please, judge me on the things I choose to say in an open, public forum. You can also judge me a little better if and when our paths ever cross.
There are some things in life that one would not wish to say or write where it could come back and bite ones ass.
Helpful - I understand much, perhaps you understand less. Who knows?
In public, where attributable, of course every Trade, Branch and Section operates to the letter of the law.
If I am too subtle for you, please get in touch.
There are some things in life that one would not wish to say or write where it could come back and bite ones ass.
Helpful - I understand much, perhaps you understand less. Who knows?
In public, where attributable, of course every Trade, Branch and Section operates to the letter of the law.
If I am too subtle for you, please get in touch.
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Mr C,
Got to say I've always enjoyed your banter in the past but your last two posts are completely out of character. A couple of bad days at the office perhaps ?
Thought the content of Stacker's posts was quite in order, if you're entitled then you get, if not ............tough !!
Must admit though........In the days of yore before ( Mobile ) Movers were scaled for flying kit we had to beg borrow or steal and it was only through the goodwill of Suppliers on bases all over UK and Germany we were able to get ourselves kitted out.
Nuff said, although I'm sure my old chum will have something to say shortly
Got to say I've always enjoyed your banter in the past but your last two posts are completely out of character. A couple of bad days at the office perhaps ?
Thought the content of Stacker's posts was quite in order, if you're entitled then you get, if not ............tough !!
Must admit though........In the days of yore before ( Mobile ) Movers were scaled for flying kit we had to beg borrow or steal and it was only through the goodwill of Suppliers on bases all over UK and Germany we were able to get ourselves kitted out.
Nuff said, although I'm sure my old chum will have something to say shortly