Corporate Question - How far did the carriers stand off?
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Corporate Question - How far did the carriers stand off?
What was the closest the carriers got to the Falkland Islands? Did they enter Falklands waters during or immediately after the conflict?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Fantasy Wargaming?
If we had used the money that paid for two carriers to provide more flight refuelling we could have sent more than one Vulcan at a time.
We could also have fitted the Vulcans with Sparrow or Phoenix. However without a continuous of the carriers in the zone the Argie fighters would have had no worthwhile targets.
True the landing ships would not have had short range air cover but that didn't seem to stop the Argies anyway.
Then the Vulcans could have dropped their loads nearer to ASI anyway.
Just how many Vulcan fighters and bomber would we have needed?
If we had used the money that paid for two carriers to provide more flight refuelling we could have sent more than one Vulcan at a time.
We could also have fitted the Vulcans with Sparrow or Phoenix. However without a continuous of the carriers in the zone the Argie fighters would have had no worthwhile targets.
True the landing ships would not have had short range air cover but that didn't seem to stop the Argies anyway.
Then the Vulcans could have dropped their loads nearer to ASI anyway.
Just how many Vulcan fighters and bomber would we have needed?
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Jackonicko,
They stayed away for most of the time (afraid of stray Vulcan attacks?) but having spoken to guys on Invincible, they got pretty close to the islands during and after the conflict. Invincible certainly sailed within 70nm of the eastern side of the Falklands.
Vulcan with Phoenix? Portly spec aircrew flight lieutenant bomber pilots with an active long range air to air missile. The mind boggles. I'm betting if that had been the case, Brian wouldn't have been "counting them all out and counting them all back again."
They stayed away for most of the time (afraid of stray Vulcan attacks?) but having spoken to guys on Invincible, they got pretty close to the islands during and after the conflict. Invincible certainly sailed within 70nm of the eastern side of the Falklands.
Vulcan with Phoenix? Portly spec aircrew flight lieutenant bomber pilots with an active long range air to air missile. The mind boggles. I'm betting if that had been the case, Brian wouldn't have been "counting them all out and counting them all back again."
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Quote:
..We could also have fitted the Vulcans with Sparrow or Phoenix...
Why stop there? How about a Shackleton with Sparrow, Phoenix, Sidewinders, Goalkeeper and Vietnam-era PGMs? Endurance and lethality.....
..We could also have fitted the Vulcans with Sparrow or Phoenix...
Why stop there? How about a Shackleton with Sparrow, Phoenix, Sidewinders, Goalkeeper and Vietnam-era PGMs? Endurance and lethality.....
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Interesting thought, Lucky Break, but I reckon A Shacklebomber would take 30 hours for the round trip going flat out with all that lot attached, does that compute?. Also remember the nearest alternate is a long way away from Asi.
All the available AAR support was fully used during Corporate, the Tri* and Vulcan Tankers were only available after it was all over.
All the available AAR support was fully used during Corporate, the Tri* and Vulcan Tankers were only available after it was all over.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Luckybreak,
Don't think we didn't think of refitting the twin 20 mm. Just look at the 303 thread <g>.
Unfortunately, while we had the endurance we did not have the range. One of the planning options was for us to fly from ASI to the FI and remain on task . . . PLE was not an option.
We calculated that this would afford the fleet 2 hrs 30 min AEW time until the 5th aircraft had to ditch.
Don't think we didn't think of refitting the twin 20 mm. Just look at the 303 thread <g>.
Unfortunately, while we had the endurance we did not have the range. One of the planning options was for us to fly from ASI to the FI and remain on task . . . PLE was not an option.
We calculated that this would afford the fleet 2 hrs 30 min AEW time until the 5th aircraft had to ditch.
Thread Starter
Just wondered whether WE177 went within range of the Falklands, since the MoD admitted on 22 October that most of the stockpile ended up on Hermes and Invincible (with their better protected magazines) and stayed with them until 2/3 June (Invincible) and 26 June (Hermes). They seem to have been the only Task Force ships with Warshots aboard (excepting Fort Austin and Resource) after the rounds of transfers to them and the RFAs, though HMS Brilliant was still carrying a Training Round (NOT a surveillance round, and the distinction is drawn by the MoD paper) when damaged on 21 May.
They also made it pretty clear that neither Sheffield nor Coventry even had surveillance rounds on board when sunk (and seemed to indicate that surveillance rounds were all that they'd carried since leaving their peacetime station).
The paper is coy about the exact number of Warshots deployed, but infers at least 14, together with at least eight training rounds and two surveillance rounds.
They also made it pretty clear that neither Sheffield nor Coventry even had surveillance rounds on board when sunk (and seemed to indicate that surveillance rounds were all that they'd carried since leaving their peacetime station).
The paper is coy about the exact number of Warshots deployed, but infers at least 14, together with at least eight training rounds and two surveillance rounds.
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Not sure of the exact answer because I did not go, but that does not mean I cannot speak with authority because this is pprune.
My source is the book of cartoons drawn by a booty that was put on sale shortly after. In one cartoon a booty awarded a matelot off Invincible an East India star.
HTH
retard
My source is the book of cartoons drawn by a booty that was put on sale shortly after. In one cartoon a booty awarded a matelot off Invincible an East India star.
HTH
retard
Don't forget that Hermes got very close whilst launching and recovering the helos for the SAS raid on Pebble Island on the 14/15 May. Within 40 miles of land.......[from Woodward's One Hundred Days].
Suspicion breeds confidence
Jacko,
Brilliant and Broadsword each carried 2 X MC(600) nuclear depth charges. Hermes and Invincible were also carrying them. Inert rounds were carried on three destroyers and three RFAs.
Brilliant and Broadsword each carried 2 X MC(600) nuclear depth charges. Hermes and Invincible were also carrying them. Inert rounds were carried on three destroyers and three RFAs.
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We could also have fitted the Vulcans with Sparrow or Phoenix
Did you say "aged bombers"... Pot this is kettle over? The only effect of the Blackbuck I recall is loads of craters most distance from the runway (and there is a suggestion that even those on the runway were decoys built by the Argies?) Still they must have had their heads down... laughing! Oh, yes and it made the crabs feel important!!!
Short Blunt Shock
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BB did it's job - The fact that the bombs did no serious strategic damage is irrelevant, and wasn't the aim of the Op. It demonstrated that the Argentine mainland was within the bombers' radius of action from ASI - thus forcing the Argies to keep a good portion of AD assets back for home defence. If they hadn't, the RNs losses may have been much greater.
16B
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I don't think any of the Argies based at Stanley airfield were in ny condition to be laughing at the Vulcan strikes. Every building on the site was shredded, although none of the bombs hit the runway. There was one near-miss crater.
The Argie Hercs were still flying in and out the night before the surrender. evacuating key personnel and some wounded.
It's true the Argies used maskirovka to fool US satellite surveillance. There were a number of dummy craters made from loose soil.
The prisoners we captured on the site were a bedraggled lot, frozen, hungry and fairly pi**ed off with their lot.
The Black Buck raids also provided a light show as we yomped across the island and helped raise our morale, even if they failed to put the airfield out of commission.
The Argie Hercs were still flying in and out the night before the surrender. evacuating key personnel and some wounded.
It's true the Argies used maskirovka to fool US satellite surveillance. There were a number of dummy craters made from loose soil.
The prisoners we captured on the site were a bedraggled lot, frozen, hungry and fairly pi**ed off with their lot.
The Black Buck raids also provided a light show as we yomped across the island and helped raise our morale, even if they failed to put the airfield out of commission.
