RAF Chinooks head to quake zone
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RAF Chinooks head to quake zone
I am surprised that there has been no comment on the forum (unless it is tucked away in another thread) regarding the departure by C17 of the Wokka's to Pakistan (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4366438.stm)
There is a clear and desperate, overdue need for heavy lift helicopters to aid the earthquake victimes. However, given the existing strain on the RAF's equipment and manpower, I do wonder which of Bliar's many adventures are going to go short. What and who is going to be jeopardised?
There is a clear and desperate, overdue need for heavy lift helicopters to aid the earthquake victimes. However, given the existing strain on the RAF's equipment and manpower, I do wonder which of Bliar's many adventures are going to go short. What and who is going to be jeopardised?
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Lyneham Lad - Tony has an expensive house in London to pay for and a high maintainance wife so he needs to have something to put in the autobiography. Good to see the Chinooks going to help people - makes a refreshing change!
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LL,
I have just come off the Fishead post on some exercise that they have been on and there is a view point on the media point of view which (according to a WAFU) was portrayed as 'Too Little Too Late'.
Whatever the politicians and journos say, to the boys and girls going - best of luck and do your best. What ever the media say, we are all behind you.
I have just come off the Fishead post on some exercise that they have been on and there is a view point on the media point of view which (according to a WAFU) was portrayed as 'Too Little Too Late'.
Whatever the politicians and journos say, to the boys and girls going - best of luck and do your best. What ever the media say, we are all behind you.
Has Pakistan taken up the offer of the Indian Air Force helicopters yet, or are they still on the 'Not today thank you list'
Or do Pakistan expect that everyone in the world except India should help them.
Or do Pakistan expect that everyone in the world except India should help them.
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Try the later part of Pakistan Eathquake
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Rest assured that Dr. John was on the radio the other day spinning it up that the UK was on it's way. When pressed by the media on why only three Chinooks were going he said that Large Transport Helicopters were in short supply around the world. He said that deploying other assets would leave the troops on the ground short of transport.
Sounds to me like over-stretch.
Maybe we cannot meet all of our commitments?
Which commitment wins most votes?
Sounds to me like over-stretch.
Maybe we cannot meet all of our commitments?
Which commitment wins most votes?
Sadly, I thought John Reid spoke the truth on TV the other day! It was quite refreshing to hear but, as it came from the lips of a politico, Joe Public and the Daily Mail will think that we've got 2000 Chinooks and that they're omni-present!
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Lyneham Lad:
Perhaps before criticising the RAF and others heavy lift capability some thought should be given to Pakistan's own resources?
A brief look at internet references seems to show a pretty large organisation, especially in the fighter department. In fact in terms of personnel and spending I'd be interested to see data comparing PAF and RAF.
We're not talking about a failed state with C-47s and so on - PAF has the money to go shopping for F-16s. Maybe the PAF should be looking at rebalancing acquiring some more heavies rather than people on PPRuNe wondering why RAF hasn't got spare Chinooks around for incidents of this nature? Not to mention all the capability across the border...
There is a clear and desperate, overdue need for heavy lift helicopters to aid the earthquake victimes.
A brief look at internet references seems to show a pretty large organisation, especially in the fighter department. In fact in terms of personnel and spending I'd be interested to see data comparing PAF and RAF.
We're not talking about a failed state with C-47s and so on - PAF has the money to go shopping for F-16s. Maybe the PAF should be looking at rebalancing acquiring some more heavies rather than people on PPRuNe wondering why RAF hasn't got spare Chinooks around for incidents of this nature? Not to mention all the capability across the border...
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Mark D:-
OK, I'll bite. Your selective quote from my original is just that - selective. I suggest you re-read my post and then tell me just where I was critical of the RAF? My reason for composing that post was a concern about the impact on current operations and overstretch resulting from sending 3 Wokka's (and using C17's to transport them).
However, that concern does not ignore the desperate need for heavy lift helicopters and the victims sitting in very cold temperatures (in a tent if they are very lucky) do not have the luxury of waiting for their own Government to change their arms buying policy. Yes - charity begins at home but in some cases, as here and after the tsunami, we need to adjust in order to provide humanitarian help.
OK, I'll bite. Your selective quote from my original is just that - selective. I suggest you re-read my post and then tell me just where I was critical of the RAF? My reason for composing that post was a concern about the impact on current operations and overstretch resulting from sending 3 Wokka's (and using C17's to transport them).
However, that concern does not ignore the desperate need for heavy lift helicopters and the victims sitting in very cold temperatures (in a tent if they are very lucky) do not have the luxury of waiting for their own Government to change their arms buying policy. Yes - charity begins at home but in some cases, as here and after the tsunami, we need to adjust in order to provide humanitarian help.
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Lyneham Lad
to be clear that wasn't a slam at you at all - and looking back at it it does read that way a bit. The quote just seemed to sum up a lot of the "why oh why" that accompanies these kinds of missions.
You are of course correct that in this particular instance RAF and others should help Pakistan get out of this crisis, however the countries selling PAF fighters should wonder how come they end up coming to the rescue (and footing the bill) when "aid to the civil power" rather than "knock the crap out of the other side" is required.
to be clear that wasn't a slam at you at all - and looking back at it it does read that way a bit. The quote just seemed to sum up a lot of the "why oh why" that accompanies these kinds of missions.
You are of course correct that in this particular instance RAF and others should help Pakistan get out of this crisis, however the countries selling PAF fighters should wonder how come they end up coming to the rescue (and footing the bill) when "aid to the civil power" rather than "knock the crap out of the other side" is required.
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You are of course correct that in this particular instance RAF and others should help Pakistan get out of this crisis, however the countries selling PAF fighters should wonder how come they end up coming to the rescue (and footing the bill) when "aid to the civil power" rather than "knock the crap out of the other side" is required.
Of course in the UK we should have enough support lift to cover our own taskings plus some level of contingency. But we dont. Which means we end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. Equipment and people get worn out and quit or break, machines we thought would see us nicely through till their replacement on peacetime taskings are being flogged to bits on an op tempo that is bordering on the bonkers.
Blame each other for not paying enough tax, or blame the govt for spending your tax on other things or the MOD for squandering their bit of the budget or the chiefs of staff for preferring teeth elements over force multipliers. In short blame everyone apart from the poor gits who are at the pointy end and those who are shortly going back to the pointy end but cant do any training cos their helicopters are 4000 miles away.
Rant mode off.
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Would it have been C-17s which took the Chinooks to Pakistan
or did we pull in a Antonov?
Can you get more than one in a Globemaster?