MRA4 Shelved?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
What have navs done in the last 50 years?
The question does not even dignify an answer.
The answer would occupy a book
or two.
The question does not even dignify an answer.
The answer would occupy a book
or two.
Questions:
Is there any more to this than the MRA4 (as a notionally NEW aircraft) not meeting a SPOF requirement that the MR2 (as a mature aircraft, designed under less rigorous standards and regulations) does not have to?
Is this entirely a theoretical risk, or are there real reasons to fear for the integrity of the Nimrod rudder?
Are the MRA4s still grounded?
Is there any more to this than the MRA4 (as a notionally NEW aircraft) not meeting a SPOF requirement that the MR2 (as a mature aircraft, designed under less rigorous standards and regulations) does not have to?
Is this entirely a theoretical risk, or are there real reasons to fear for the integrity of the Nimrod rudder?
Are the MRA4s still grounded?
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Jacko, I can tell you they are most definately NOT grounded!
2 are currently going through a pause to allow essential work to be carried out on them, but PA2 is still available for test flying.
2 are currently going through a pause to allow essential work to be carried out on them, but PA2 is still available for test flying.
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2 are currently going through a pause to allow essential work to be carried out on them, but PA2 is still available for test flying.
sw
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Not being evasive at all, just telling it like it is!
Its actually a planned pause in the test schedule. These pauses (BAE terminology) have been planned for months. BAE use them to catch up on the changes/fixes that are found during the flight tests. To do them between test flights would result in a fragmented and slower flight test phase.
The rudder issue has been discussed at length with regard to SPOF, its just coincidence that the current pause has coincided with this becoming the latest hot topic surrounding the future of the MRA4.
Its actually a planned pause in the test schedule. These pauses (BAE terminology) have been planned for months. BAE use them to catch up on the changes/fixes that are found during the flight tests. To do them between test flights would result in a fragmented and slower flight test phase.
The rudder issue has been discussed at length with regard to SPOF, its just coincidence that the current pause has coincided with this becoming the latest hot topic surrounding the future of the MRA4.
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Bats
Can't believe you bit man chill
.
You do know he has failed somewhere along the line and sits at home playing his flight sim games making up "cool" c/s's for himself complete with rubber suit - oh yeah and mask.
As for GPS you gotta love it any monkey can use it even apes!
Charlie sends
Can't believe you bit man chill
.You do know he has failed somewhere along the line and sits at home playing his flight sim games making up "cool" c/s's for himself complete with rubber suit - oh yeah and mask.
As for GPS you gotta love it any monkey can use it even apes!
Charlie sends
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Jacko
In response, it has not been cancelled - yet, and hopefully it wont be. The capability that the MRA4 will bring is a huge leap forward comparred to everything we currently have in service.
The rudder issue has been mooted around Warton, so I guess there are some problems. I cant elaborate as I really dont know enough about what the problem is.
In response to Riley Dave, the overall cost has not changed AFAIK. A production conract is due to be announced over the coming months. This was originally planned for late this year, but I've heard that this could have slipped to the 1st quarter next year. This will them give the unit price, and a better idea of the final cost will be known.
Cant remember if there were any other Q's, but if you post them here I will try to help if possible.
In response, it has not been cancelled - yet, and hopefully it wont be. The capability that the MRA4 will bring is a huge leap forward comparred to everything we currently have in service.
The rudder issue has been mooted around Warton, so I guess there are some problems. I cant elaborate as I really dont know enough about what the problem is.
In response to Riley Dave, the overall cost has not changed AFAIK. A production conract is due to be announced over the coming months. This was originally planned for late this year, but I've heard that this could have slipped to the 1st quarter next year. This will them give the unit price, and a better idea of the final cost will be known.
Cant remember if there were any other Q's, but if you post them here I will try to help if possible.
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Hope the galley works.....
Jacko,
Go on ask how big and gucci the galley is in the bag of an MRA4! Bet it is all mod cons and stacks of space for the OBSCENE AMOUNT OF FOOD THAT THE KIPPER FLEET CONSUME! Now you probably think I'm joking - nope. They even have mahoosive rations thrown in for a sim trip in the tube. How they are not all as fat as barrels is beyond me......aah, they are.
Now trim the MRA4 allocation, get rid of 2nd and 3rd tranch of Eurobomber, sorry fighter, whatever role it thinks its doing htis week. Get rid of the Rock Apes (no Rapier - what do you do now?) and half the admin branch and we might, just might scrape up enough cash to stop Gordon from nicking our new spanky carriers.
Go on ask how big and gucci the galley is in the bag of an MRA4! Bet it is all mod cons and stacks of space for the OBSCENE AMOUNT OF FOOD THAT THE KIPPER FLEET CONSUME! Now you probably think I'm joking - nope. They even have mahoosive rations thrown in for a sim trip in the tube. How they are not all as fat as barrels is beyond me......aah, they are.
Now trim the MRA4 allocation, get rid of 2nd and 3rd tranch of Eurobomber, sorry fighter, whatever role it thinks its doing htis week. Get rid of the Rock Apes (no Rapier - what do you do now?) and half the admin branch and we might, just might scrape up enough cash to stop Gordon from nicking our new spanky carriers.
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In the last 20 years what has the Nimrod done for us?
Surley the question should be
What will the Nimrod do for us in the forseeable future
Cold war is over, do we really need something like this to defend our seas, As I understand we dont require an MPA that has to be able to patrol vast wads of the atlantic.
Taken from the Airforce Technology Website...
The main roles of Nimrod MRA4 are maritime reconnaissance, anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface unit warfare and search and rescue.
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althenick, running the risk of sounding like some sort of company yes man,
Can't dispute your opening statement, but what follows just goes to show that most people dont know what the MR2 is doing today! There is more to the MR2 than SAR and taking pretty photos of warships and submarines.
If you knew what the MR2 was doing and understood a little about the potential of the MRA4, you would not have asked the Q.
The MRA4, with the capability it promises, will greatly enhance what the MR2 is currently doing, as well as expanding its roles.
As an island we would always need something to 'patrol the vast wads of the atlantic' as you never know where your next threat is coming from.
As for smaller/cheaper/COTS - there is no such thing. COTS while cheap upfront is generally more expensive in the long run as you buy a standard piece of kit, then get the manufacturer to mod it to your exact requirement and viola a piece of kit that would have cost less to develop from scratch.
COTS being cheaper really is a myth!
Can't dispute your opening statement, but what follows just goes to show that most people dont know what the MR2 is doing today! There is more to the MR2 than SAR and taking pretty photos of warships and submarines.
If you knew what the MR2 was doing and understood a little about the potential of the MRA4, you would not have asked the Q.
The MRA4, with the capability it promises, will greatly enhance what the MR2 is currently doing, as well as expanding its roles.
As an island we would always need something to 'patrol the vast wads of the atlantic' as you never know where your next threat is coming from.
As for smaller/cheaper/COTS - there is no such thing. COTS while cheap upfront is generally more expensive in the long run as you buy a standard piece of kit, then get the manufacturer to mod it to your exact requirement and viola a piece of kit that would have cost less to develop from scratch.
COTS being cheaper really is a myth!
The very heavy initial emphasis on ASW reflects the fact that the customer is DEC Underwater Warfare (or whatever he's called this week). No-one doubts that the aircraft won't be a multi-role attack and ISTAR platform (Aunty Betty's Buff) once (or if) the frontline get their hands on it.
I'm not surprised that people misunderstand the Nimrod's role today. The RAF have been stupidly backward in telling people what the aircraft has been doing in recent ops, and have hardly been forthcoming in publicising the very real overland jobs the aircraft and its crews have been doing.
I'm not surprised that people misunderstand the Nimrod's role today. The RAF have been stupidly backward in telling people what the aircraft has been doing in recent ops, and have hardly been forthcoming in publicising the very real overland jobs the aircraft and its crews have been doing.
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singleseatadnav:
What, apart from sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, public health and peace? Nothing, mate.
Apologies to Python, but please remember "Single Seat AD Nav" (?) that ignorant plonkers are unlikely to ever learn what aircraft actually do.
In the last 20 years what has the Nimrod done for us?
Apologies to Python, but please remember "Single Seat AD Nav" (?) that ignorant plonkers are unlikely to ever learn what aircraft actually do.
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BanginOut,
Thanks for the enlightenment. Your right - I dont know much about MRA4 and I certainly wouldn't dispute the enhanced capabilty of the airframe, but i'm still not convinced we need such a lavish package given that the cold war is over. I would agree that if HMG were to expand its portfolio to a multi-role attack Aircraft then yes lets have it (all of them!) Otherwise in not convinced as an interested bystander or taxpayer.
Thanks for the enlightenment. Your right - I dont know much about MRA4 and I certainly wouldn't dispute the enhanced capabilty of the airframe, but i'm still not convinced we need such a lavish package given that the cold war is over. I would agree that if HMG were to expand its portfolio to a multi-role attack Aircraft then yes lets have it (all of them!) Otherwise in not convinced as an interested bystander or taxpayer.
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Jacko
I don’t believe the RAF has been stupid at all, those that need to know do - those that don't well don't.
To many times have Hacks/PR Spin Drs/Minor Politicians/un-informed Senior O's/BAES or Boeing detractors/military experts(delete as appropriate) have compromised the safety of operators with their opinions or media sound bites so they look important for their book launch or 15 mins of fame and a few rounds on Sky TV.
Free informed speech is important but remember who won it for you and who lets you keep it.
As for UBM and the dark arts, I don’t know of any nations declaring to wipe out the Jewish state that have submarines.
After all it is one facet of a true multirole combat aircraft.
A deep fat fryer for the battered Mars bars and a freezer for the DCS would be ideal though
Charlie sends
I don’t believe the RAF has been stupid at all, those that need to know do - those that don't well don't.
To many times have Hacks/PR Spin Drs/Minor Politicians/un-informed Senior O's/BAES or Boeing detractors/military experts(delete as appropriate) have compromised the safety of operators with their opinions or media sound bites so they look important for their book launch or 15 mins of fame and a few rounds on Sky TV.
Free informed speech is important but remember who won it for you and who lets you keep it.
As for UBM and the dark arts, I don’t know of any nations declaring to wipe out the Jewish state that have submarines.
After all it is one facet of a true multirole combat aircraft.A deep fat fryer for the battered Mars bars and a freezer for the DCS would be ideal though
Charlie sends
If we were living in a totalitarian state, or even if we were back in the Cold War, when people trusted the Government to procure the best kit, then the lack of publicity given to Nimrod's recent success in (how can we put this) its expanded portfolio of roles and capabilities would be acceptable.
When, however, quite senior politicians, officers outside the Nimrod community and large elements of the friendly press haven't been indoctrinated, who is going to put the case when competing programmes threaten the type's funding?
And if my tax pounds are paying for something, then I want to know what they are being spent on, and I certainly want those who might warn me if they're being misspent to know. And in this particular case, it would be rather nice to know how wisely and effectively small amounts of our money have transformed a useful platform into a vital and successful one. You wouldn't catch the dark blues being so coy about one of their toys doing such good work, and they certainly wouldn't lean on friendly journos to keep shtum about what they did know.....
And I'm blo.ody sure that those who need to know on the other side know chapter and verse about the Nimrod's recent deeds of derring do, and have all that they need on the items of kit used.
When, however, quite senior politicians, officers outside the Nimrod community and large elements of the friendly press haven't been indoctrinated, who is going to put the case when competing programmes threaten the type's funding?
And if my tax pounds are paying for something, then I want to know what they are being spent on, and I certainly want those who might warn me if they're being misspent to know. And in this particular case, it would be rather nice to know how wisely and effectively small amounts of our money have transformed a useful platform into a vital and successful one. You wouldn't catch the dark blues being so coy about one of their toys doing such good work, and they certainly wouldn't lean on friendly journos to keep shtum about what they did know.....
And I'm blo.ody sure that those who need to know on the other side know chapter and verse about the Nimrod's recent deeds of derring do, and have all that they need on the items of kit used.