exodus
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exodus
Is it just me, or is there the beginnings of a mass exodus of group 2 pilots in the making?
I can't quantify with any figures, just wondering if anyone else had noticed
I can't quantify with any figures, just wondering if anyone else had noticed
And allegedly (unconfirmed) another 1000 redundancies from TGs 1 and 2?
Great, we'll soon have one aircraft each......
Great, we'll soon have one aircraft each......
Join Date: Nov 2004
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LCP
No - it isn't just you. All my mates either have an ATPL or are thinking about how best to get one(That is for the ones who haven't left already). ME PVR's are sky high, and everyone is taking options to leave. The AT fleet has gone from +70 pilots last year, to -5 now.
The current airline recruitment drive has made the timing right for a lot of people. I wouldn't bank on a lift by ASCOT aircraft this time next year, but then again, we've not exactly been reliable lately anyway!!
No - it isn't just you. All my mates either have an ATPL or are thinking about how best to get one(That is for the ones who haven't left already). ME PVR's are sky high, and everyone is taking options to leave. The AT fleet has gone from +70 pilots last year, to -5 now.
The current airline recruitment drive has made the timing right for a lot of people. I wouldn't bank on a lift by ASCOT aircraft this time next year, but then again, we've not exactly been reliable lately anyway!!
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Sad state of affairs. I too, am the proud owner of a brand new ATPL and making my move to leave despite PA offer. Something I'd never have thought of doing 3 or 4 years ago.
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Hmmm.. I bet this cheers up all the guys who made it through Shawbury or Linton/Valley were subsequently chopped and told “Sorry old chap you’re not good enough to fly multis, thanks for wasting three years of your youth though” (Read: We have no spaces for ME restreams)
Not
It really is staggering how unbelievably incompetent the people at the top are.
This has been a long time coming and I sincerely hope some top brass f**kwit gets it in the neck….
and pigs might fly.
Not
It really is staggering how unbelievably incompetent the people at the top are.
This has been a long time coming and I sincerely hope some top brass f**kwit gets it in the neck….
and pigs might fly.
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There isn't an exodus at all - since June I've personally spoken to two people who plan to stay after their next option point. Well ok, one hasn't got another option point cos he's a WO, but the other is looking forward to a lifetime career.
In the Bible they didn't mention leaving anybody behind in Egypt, so talk of an exodus is rubbish.
Everyone else I have spoken with on this subject has mentioned leaving as soon as they possibly can but I think this is just a statistical error, common in surveys of this kind; in reality I suspect three or four of those surveyed are staying in...
In the Bible they didn't mention leaving anybody behind in Egypt, so talk of an exodus is rubbish.
Everyone else I have spoken with on this subject has mentioned leaving as soon as they possibly can but I think this is just a statistical error, common in surveys of this kind; in reality I suspect three or four of those surveyed are staying in...
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I for one am making a run for it. PVR was in a while ago and the days just can't pass quickly enough.
My PVR must have gone in when we were flush since I was put in a nice desk job to make absolutely certain that I wouldn't change my mind. Strange that you must still amortise a flying course but frequently get hauled off flying duties; not sure where the 'return of service' is?
In fairness, I was offered, in pure career terms at least, some promising opportunities but none came close to swinging the balance. The best career opportunities were never going to compensate for a fundamental lack of spending and an incremental erosion of terms and conditions. The promises of 'we're addressing the raft of issues such as overstretch' have come to nothing, the new equipment programmes (many at least) are slippping further to the right and financial expediency (flattering term) is the order of the day.
"Vote with your feet if you don't like it! " All right then, I will. Nothing will change but I will be happier and I'm convinced that my long term lifestyle will be substantialy better than the one that I seemed to be facing.
My PVR must have gone in when we were flush since I was put in a nice desk job to make absolutely certain that I wouldn't change my mind. Strange that you must still amortise a flying course but frequently get hauled off flying duties; not sure where the 'return of service' is?
In fairness, I was offered, in pure career terms at least, some promising opportunities but none came close to swinging the balance. The best career opportunities were never going to compensate for a fundamental lack of spending and an incremental erosion of terms and conditions. The promises of 'we're addressing the raft of issues such as overstretch' have come to nothing, the new equipment programmes (many at least) are slippping further to the right and financial expediency (flattering term) is the order of the day.
"Vote with your feet if you don't like it! " All right then, I will. Nothing will change but I will be happier and I'm convinced that my long term lifestyle will be substantialy better than the one that I seemed to be facing.
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......... and just wait and see what happens once all those PA Spine types qualify for their big new pension scheme in April!
Somehow I don't think we've seen anything yet.
Meanwhile, I hear that next to no Sqn Ldr pilots have been taking their options to stay in past age 38 as Career Spine aircrew! I wonder why?
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PileUp Officer
I can understand your frustration. The trouble is that, it's mainly our ME captains' hours and experience that the airlines want - and that leaves us with loads of co-pilots who do not have enough experience to become captains just yet, and very few slots for ab-initios!
I guess that's also another reason why they wanted to pull as many QFIs out of UAS duties as they could. UAS QFIs were, more often than not, experienced ME pilots .......... and while we're on that subject, I'd love to know where we're going to grow enough ME QFIs for front-line training duties in the future!
Somehow I don't think we've seen anything yet.
Meanwhile, I hear that next to no Sqn Ldr pilots have been taking their options to stay in past age 38 as Career Spine aircrew! I wonder why?
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PileUp Officer
I can understand your frustration. The trouble is that, it's mainly our ME captains' hours and experience that the airlines want - and that leaves us with loads of co-pilots who do not have enough experience to become captains just yet, and very few slots for ab-initios!
I guess that's also another reason why they wanted to pull as many QFIs out of UAS duties as they could. UAS QFIs were, more often than not, experienced ME pilots .......... and while we're on that subject, I'd love to know where we're going to grow enough ME QFIs for front-line training duties in the future!
Last edited by LFFC; 11th Oct 2005 at 22:31.
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Made the switch several months ago, best thing I ever did.
Grass isn't greener on the other side but it generally comes with a gardener to do the mundane work.
Go to work, fly, land, go home. Much less stress, good luck to those that wish to stay but for those unsure make the switch.
IMHO
Rudolf
Grass isn't greener on the other side but it generally comes with a gardener to do the mundane work.
Go to work, fly, land, go home. Much less stress, good luck to those that wish to stay but for those unsure make the switch.
IMHO
Rudolf
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No - I hear that it's just as big a problem in the FJ world.
But I heard an interesting rumour today........ Apparently there is soon to be an announcement saying that all aircrew sqn ldrs over the age of 40 will be transferred to the PA spine wef Apr 06.
Of course, this will not prevent them being promoted back into the Career Spine at some later date.
I understand that this move is designed to allow sqn ldr aircrew to take advantage of the new pension system and is an attempt to stem the "haemorrhage" of important middle-management who have been badly disadvantaged.
Has anyone else heard about this? I'm a bit cynical myself - I would have thought they would make the announcement after Apr 06!
But I heard an interesting rumour today........ Apparently there is soon to be an announcement saying that all aircrew sqn ldrs over the age of 40 will be transferred to the PA spine wef Apr 06.
Of course, this will not prevent them being promoted back into the Career Spine at some later date.
I understand that this move is designed to allow sqn ldr aircrew to take advantage of the new pension system and is an attempt to stem the "haemorrhage" of important middle-management who have been badly disadvantaged.
Has anyone else heard about this? I'm a bit cynical myself - I would have thought they would make the announcement after Apr 06!
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Its not just the ME and FJ lads that are getting their ATPLs and leaving in droves. At least half the RW world have been seen going for interviews in Aberdeen with CHC
Loyalty.........Ah yes I remember those days......
Loyalty.........Ah yes I remember those days......
And yet when I wrote the paper all those years ago which led to the CAA accreditation towards a CPL or ATPL, it was seen as a retention incentive.... Yet nowadays people, it seems, are so exasperated and pi$$ed off that many are starting work on their licences long before reaching the 2000TT/1500PIC qualifying figure. It was intended that people would work happily for HMFC until reaching that total, then either leave, go 'Spec Aircrew' (as it then was) - or crawl further up the career ladder.
Overstretched work force
Ageing equipment
No end in sight to the Iraq and Afghanistan operations
Increasing embuggerances (e.g. OFT)
Is it any wonder that pilots are leaving?
Overstretched work force
Ageing equipment
No end in sight to the Iraq and Afghanistan operations
Increasing embuggerances (e.g. OFT)
Is it any wonder that pilots are leaving?
L'enfant Terrible
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I was absolutely gutted at being chopped at the end of AFT and felt like I had no future at all in aviation. To now be on the cusp of finishing my ATPL and knowing that I'm reasonably good with a bit of confidence, I'm starting to think it was the best thing that could have happened.
It's no fun working for a bankrupt company.
It's no fun working for a bankrupt company.
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I asked a PMA bod (a few years ago) about retention and whether he/they considered the fact that so many of our best people were leaving at the 38/16 point was a problem.
The point I was trying to make was that it would be more cost-effective to put at least some money into retention than simply to ignore the problem. At the time my Branch was about 20% down on numbers for the Control specialisation and didn't seem to be able to recruit enough people that could pass the course (10 on my course, less than 2 passed).
The response was typically PMA. People join with a sort of contract. If they leave at the end of that contract, it's nothing to do with retention - it's not even seen as an issue, let alone an actual problem. It is planned for and trg rates are adjusted accordingly, along with offers of assimiliation.
Possibly the same in the FJ World?
STH
The point I was trying to make was that it would be more cost-effective to put at least some money into retention than simply to ignore the problem. At the time my Branch was about 20% down on numbers for the Control specialisation and didn't seem to be able to recruit enough people that could pass the course (10 on my course, less than 2 passed).
The response was typically PMA. People join with a sort of contract. If they leave at the end of that contract, it's nothing to do with retention - it's not even seen as an issue, let alone an actual problem. It is planned for and trg rates are adjusted accordingly, along with offers of assimiliation.
Possibly the same in the FJ World?
STH