B52 Air refueling
WG
Not sure why you're making such a big deal out of tanker crews going to WIC.
Given the extensive emphasis placed by the school on 'problem solving' excercises, and on the planning and succesful execution of large-scale air operations, it matters little whether those attending fly the pointy-nose jets that drop bombs and fire off missiles, or tankers etc..
Why does it not make sense to prepare aircrews for war - whatever their MDS - to the best of an air force's ability?
Not sure why you're making such a big deal out of tanker crews going to WIC.
Given the extensive emphasis placed by the school on 'problem solving' excercises, and on the planning and succesful execution of large-scale air operations, it matters little whether those attending fly the pointy-nose jets that drop bombs and fire off missiles, or tankers etc..
Why does it not make sense to prepare aircrews for war - whatever their MDS - to the best of an air force's ability?
Talking about wacky tanker stuff, anybody have pictures of the Kiwi Reds' A-4s display plugged-in buddy tanker barrel roll?
No, but I've got the 1963 Farnborough Fred's Five brochure, doing the same in their Sea Vixens
Although Beagle was probably there, in one of the coal holes
The aforementioned Buff EWO provided me with this:
"The comments in the thread were correct when they said it was demo’d during CFIC at Castle AFB. I don’t know if any gas was actually passed in this position, but the stated object of the exercise was to demonstrate the stability of the platforms. Also correct in the threads is that this is an old pic. It is a G model B-52 which was retired around ’92. The significance is that this was in a different AF than what we have now. At the time of this pic, both the B-52 and the KC-135s belonged to SAC, and had been since time immemorial. The main reason for the maneuver was “Because we Can!”.
At the time I went through CFIC (~1988), it was called Consolidated Flight Instructor Course, not “Combat” Flight Instructor Course, the reason being that aircrews from both the bomber and the tanker (and RC-135) went through the same course. They just had different tracks. It was THE instructor course for SAC aircrews. The WHIF was practiced without the full complement of crewmembers on board, just the pilots and the navigator team. The gunner and I (EWO) normally didn’t partake in this exercise. We had no attitude instruments back in our section. Our ADI was looking over our shoulders towards the front of the airplane, over the pilot’s shoulders and seeing what the horizon looked like.
There were two air refueling routes where this was done in northern California; two, big hour long A/R tracks that drove straight north with a 180 turn on the north end at the midpoint. One was centered over the Sierras and the other over the coast range to the west. It was always a mark of distinction for the student pilot to “hang on” during the turn. I’m sure that was the genesis of this.
CFIC was a fun course. The instructor candidates had to demonstrate that they could instruct aircrew members in how to fly and fight a B-52. Their “students” were actually instructors with a million hours who would pull every stupid trick in the book on the instructor candidate. They were very creative. Their goal was to teach the instructor candidate not to let the student exceed the instructor’s limits, and then defined those limits. That’s what the course was all about, finding your limits. Thus, the Whif.
(There is some video of this being done that I’ve seen. It’s a very graceful looking maneuver. Constant motion, constant turns, really pretty.)"
Would love to see the video.
Tarnished
"The comments in the thread were correct when they said it was demo’d during CFIC at Castle AFB. I don’t know if any gas was actually passed in this position, but the stated object of the exercise was to demonstrate the stability of the platforms. Also correct in the threads is that this is an old pic. It is a G model B-52 which was retired around ’92. The significance is that this was in a different AF than what we have now. At the time of this pic, both the B-52 and the KC-135s belonged to SAC, and had been since time immemorial. The main reason for the maneuver was “Because we Can!”.
At the time I went through CFIC (~1988), it was called Consolidated Flight Instructor Course, not “Combat” Flight Instructor Course, the reason being that aircrews from both the bomber and the tanker (and RC-135) went through the same course. They just had different tracks. It was THE instructor course for SAC aircrews. The WHIF was practiced without the full complement of crewmembers on board, just the pilots and the navigator team. The gunner and I (EWO) normally didn’t partake in this exercise. We had no attitude instruments back in our section. Our ADI was looking over our shoulders towards the front of the airplane, over the pilot’s shoulders and seeing what the horizon looked like.
There were two air refueling routes where this was done in northern California; two, big hour long A/R tracks that drove straight north with a 180 turn on the north end at the midpoint. One was centered over the Sierras and the other over the coast range to the west. It was always a mark of distinction for the student pilot to “hang on” during the turn. I’m sure that was the genesis of this.
CFIC was a fun course. The instructor candidates had to demonstrate that they could instruct aircrew members in how to fly and fight a B-52. Their “students” were actually instructors with a million hours who would pull every stupid trick in the book on the instructor candidate. They were very creative. Their goal was to teach the instructor candidate not to let the student exceed the instructor’s limits, and then defined those limits. That’s what the course was all about, finding your limits. Thus, the Whif.
(There is some video of this being done that I’ve seen. It’s a very graceful looking maneuver. Constant motion, constant turns, really pretty.)"
Would love to see the video.
Tarnished
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I have never performed this maneuver -- nor do I think I would want to. I prefer my flying to be routine and benign!
However, I think I understand the rationale behind this part of the syllabus. I was considered to be a "confidence building maneuver".
It was performed with constant positive G's, and looks quite graceful in the videos I've seen.
But, one would never see anything like it in today's risk averse USAF.
However, I think I understand the rationale behind this part of the syllabus. I was considered to be a "confidence building maneuver".
It was performed with constant positive G's, and looks quite graceful in the videos I've seen.
But, one would never see anything like it in today's risk averse USAF.
Passpartout, nearly correct. During a practice in Feb 2001, the lead (tanker) flew into the ground. The number 2 (receiver) manged to unplug in time and avoid impact.
There used to be a picture on the wall of 101 Sqn of a VC10 plugged into a Kiwi A4.
There used to be a picture on the wall of 101 Sqn of a VC10 plugged into a Kiwi A4.
There was indeed, Dan.
I have the video of that VC10 prodding A4 event! Now safely stored on DVD.
There was originally only one copy, which the boss at the time used to keep safely locked up in his office, as he was the prodder involved. One day we were having a coffee break and he agreed to show it on the crew room video. As we were watching it, his PA came in and told him that the Stn Cdr was on the phone for him....
Whilst he was out, we rushed out to get the old TTF portable video recorder and the appropriate wires, connected it all up and made a tape-to-tape transfer, then tidied away all evidence as though nothing had happened.....
Back came the boss from his office; having told him we'd stopped the tape for him, we then watched the rest, successfully feigning innocence. He then ejected it and left saying "I'd better lock that safely away.....!"
One of these days I must get round to telling Jim, I mean, him.
I have the video of that VC10 prodding A4 event! Now safely stored on DVD.
There was originally only one copy, which the boss at the time used to keep safely locked up in his office, as he was the prodder involved. One day we were having a coffee break and he agreed to show it on the crew room video. As we were watching it, his PA came in and told him that the Stn Cdr was on the phone for him....
Whilst he was out, we rushed out to get the old TTF portable video recorder and the appropriate wires, connected it all up and made a tape-to-tape transfer, then tidied away all evidence as though nothing had happened.....
Back came the boss from his office; having told him we'd stopped the tape for him, we then watched the rest, successfully feigning innocence. He then ejected it and left saying "I'd better lock that safely away.....!"
One of these days I must get round to telling Jim, I mean, him.
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PASSEPARTOUT, in addition to the 2001 incident that Winterland mentioned, another A4 was lost along with its pilot during a display practice in October 1989, after a mid-air collision during a "roll-under break" manouvre that concluded the routine at the time.
The photo posted earlier actually predates the 'Kiwi Red' era (1988-1990). I think its a PR shot for the team formed for a 1983 display, which was the first time the plugged barrel roll was performed as I understand it. The teams apparently weren't officially named before the 1988 season.
The photo posted earlier actually predates the 'Kiwi Red' era (1988-1990). I think its a PR shot for the team formed for a 1983 display, which was the first time the plugged barrel roll was performed as I understand it. The teams apparently weren't officially named before the 1988 season.
Beags,
Did the A4 get moved about by the bow wave coming off the bigger bus? Would seem that would be a sporty refuel with the different sized machines involved.
Did the A4 get moved about by the bow wave coming off the bigger bus? Would seem that would be a sporty refuel with the different sized machines involved.
No, you have my respect for such foolhardiness, sorry bravery. Do you have to have your flight suit modified around the groin area to accomodate your massive cojones?
Once was part of a mixed type flypast which involved me being wingman to a helo. It was like trying to get as close as possible to a circular saw without getting cut. Still gives me nightmares!
Once was part of a mixed type flypast which involved me being wingman to a helo. It was like trying to get as close as possible to a circular saw without getting cut. Still gives me nightmares!
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There's an interesting quote from a book about the RNZAF A-4's referring to the VC-10-A-4 refuellings.
"Apparently the A-4 drivers regarded the briefing they were given by the RAF as 'rather basic'"
Any comments? Not looking for dirt, just curious.
"Apparently the A-4 drivers regarded the briefing they were given by the RAF as 'rather basic'"
Any comments? Not looking for dirt, just curious.
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But, one would never see anything like it in today's risk averse USAF.
Used to do auto-pilot off, 45 degree banked S-turns, now all I get are 15-degree banked "wiggles" - every once in a while, there'll be some crusty O6 at the controls & I'll get 30-degrees...all too rare anymore.I'm submitting a change to the dash-3!
Just noticed this thread, having flown with many former Buff crewmembers can only state that they also confess to the "whiff" maneuver at CFIT...
FWIW, the old Buff pilots have always been our best on the boom...3D boom limits demos & what not