the REAL cost of lean at Lyneham
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Just down the road from ISK
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Guys and galls,
This is going on everywhere. Morale is bad at ISK.
On the line, nearly all the Crew Chiefs have put in their PVR.
On the Sqn, everyone I talk to is looking at just how soon they can get out. That includes the young lads who really shouldn't be that disillusioned yet!
We have followed the accountants' advice and thinned down to that which is essential to support peace-time training operations. Didn't anyone tell them there is a war on?
me, personally? well FRI2 has got me in shackles for another 3 years but after that I'll go and sell burgers and fries rather than carry on spending 6 months plus away from my family. Otherwise, I might not have a family to come back to after the next stint at HMP seeb/basrah.
This is going on everywhere. Morale is bad at ISK.
On the line, nearly all the Crew Chiefs have put in their PVR.
On the Sqn, everyone I talk to is looking at just how soon they can get out. That includes the young lads who really shouldn't be that disillusioned yet!
We have followed the accountants' advice and thinned down to that which is essential to support peace-time training operations. Didn't anyone tell them there is a war on?
me, personally? well FRI2 has got me in shackles for another 3 years but after that I'll go and sell burgers and fries rather than carry on spending 6 months plus away from my family. Otherwise, I might not have a family to come back to after the next stint at HMP seeb/basrah.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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VR you sum it all up nicely it's not just Lyneham. I'm sure you won't end up flipping burgers but yes family have to come first and these days the powers that be don't seem to care or aren't prepared to rock the boat.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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You have to ask why it was only spotted now? Is that true?
and I hope that none of the very qualified engineers at Lyneham end up flipping burgers, they are too good for that.
Another change around Christmas? they better get their act together this time. Can't keep going from bad to worse.
Where is that light at the end of the tunnel?
and I hope that none of the very qualified engineers at Lyneham end up flipping burgers, they are too good for that.
Another change around Christmas? they better get their act together this time. Can't keep going from bad to worse.
Where is that light at the end of the tunnel?
Join Date: Sep 2005
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happing elsewhere
hi folks from the swampland
this is happening here as well, 4 sqns into 2!! ( techies becoming part of a centralised maintenance wing!!!!!)
the second line has been desimated, leaving less people to do more work, in less time.
the might pulse line, has flopped at the first hurdle, with it now taking more people to produce less servicable assets, and all this in the name of progress.
has none of the policy makers any idea on what is happening at the front line. you would have thought they would have looked at the huge numbers of volunteers for redundacy and thought, hang on, the troops are unhappy.
or maybe we should stop moving the hiearchy around every 2 years, and let the changes they impose at least take effect, rather than just changing the name of the section and the headed note paper!!!!!!
this is happening here as well, 4 sqns into 2!! ( techies becoming part of a centralised maintenance wing!!!!!)
the second line has been desimated, leaving less people to do more work, in less time.
the might pulse line, has flopped at the first hurdle, with it now taking more people to produce less servicable assets, and all this in the name of progress.
has none of the policy makers any idea on what is happening at the front line. you would have thought they would have looked at the huge numbers of volunteers for redundacy and thought, hang on, the troops are unhappy.
or maybe we should stop moving the hiearchy around every 2 years, and let the changes they impose at least take effect, rather than just changing the name of the section and the headed note paper!!!!!!
Join Date: Sep 2005
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the lean virus is spreading
I also hail from swamp land and can confirm that morale in the big shed is rock bottom.
They work a pulse line system, for those that are not up to speed yet, thats service an a/c for 10 days then move it on to the next phase of serviceing. This sounds great because you can split a minor / minor * serv into 8 phases.
When the a/c moves on to the next phase the man power moves too, and the tools and the magards, etc.... In the bad old days the team chiefs did the work schedule and the a/c and team stayed in one place.
I wonder if people that matter have any idea what maddness this causes. the purpose of moving a/c we are told was " a visual tool to highlight our spares problem".
I seems that no matter whats been said before regarding lean, the reply we hear is that "lean will be sucsessful no matter what".
The future is not bright but bae our standing outside the FS office with job applications after you present your pvr.
They work a pulse line system, for those that are not up to speed yet, thats service an a/c for 10 days then move it on to the next phase of serviceing. This sounds great because you can split a minor / minor * serv into 8 phases.
When the a/c moves on to the next phase the man power moves too, and the tools and the magards, etc.... In the bad old days the team chiefs did the work schedule and the a/c and team stayed in one place.
I wonder if people that matter have any idea what maddness this causes. the purpose of moving a/c we are told was " a visual tool to highlight our spares problem".
I seems that no matter whats been said before regarding lean, the reply we hear is that "lean will be sucsessful no matter what".
The future is not bright but bae our standing outside the FS office with job applications after you present your pvr.
Morale on the swampland squadrons is also shocking (one of the sqns is sitting on 21 PVRs, another has application after application to leave Marham going in. Don't know about the other two). Nobody wants the CMU's and most time-served people are utterly disillusioned with the station eng (MIS)management falling over themselves to embrace this utter crap, and not listening to those who know better through sheer experience.
I have heard that the recommendation from the VSA regarding FJ units is to keep squadrons intact, for reasons of identity, morale, and team ethos. Marham has allegedly chosen to disregard this advice, and as such a so-called "trial" will see 2 and 31 merge eng wise, to see if a CMU works, while 9 and 13 will remain seperate. IMHE trials result in policy no matter what.
Why are the RAF / MOD paying consultants with no aviation engineering experience £15000 per week to come up with stunningly tw@t ideas when we have such a vast amount of experience within our own ranks? Or can't non-commissioned ranks come up with ideas and present working studies in them?
I can't wait to go into work a week tomorrow, and see how the redundancies are going to affect a major exercise in the coming weeks. You just know that plenty of people aren't going to give a toss about whether we pass or fail any more. I've seen morale plummet since the beginning of the year and a major (but by no means only) reason is this re-organisation at Marham.
OC FSW, OC DSW, SEngOs - I hope you're all very pleased with yourselves. I'd be well pleased with the PULSE if I'd been responsible for that scheme. Can you look in the mirror and honestly say you're doing a good job?
Rant off.
I have heard that the recommendation from the VSA regarding FJ units is to keep squadrons intact, for reasons of identity, morale, and team ethos. Marham has allegedly chosen to disregard this advice, and as such a so-called "trial" will see 2 and 31 merge eng wise, to see if a CMU works, while 9 and 13 will remain seperate. IMHE trials result in policy no matter what.
Why are the RAF / MOD paying consultants with no aviation engineering experience £15000 per week to come up with stunningly tw@t ideas when we have such a vast amount of experience within our own ranks? Or can't non-commissioned ranks come up with ideas and present working studies in them?
I can't wait to go into work a week tomorrow, and see how the redundancies are going to affect a major exercise in the coming weeks. You just know that plenty of people aren't going to give a toss about whether we pass or fail any more. I've seen morale plummet since the beginning of the year and a major (but by no means only) reason is this re-organisation at Marham.
OC FSW, OC DSW, SEngOs - I hope you're all very pleased with yourselves. I'd be well pleased with the PULSE if I'd been responsible for that scheme. Can you look in the mirror and honestly say you're doing a good job?
Rant off.
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jobza
so in a nut shell,
The Air Force is down sizing to 41000,
The Air Force overseas commitment is crippling,
All the experiance ground engineers are taking advantage of the second traunch with a possible 3rd to mop up all the rest. Engineers told to reevaluate there tried and trusted working methods and to embrace ideas which industry would not touch with a sh*ty stick, morale is lower than a snakes arse.
Aircrew unsure of getting flying hours in every month.
No one with the balls to stop it getting further out of hand than present.
BAE about to take over 2nd line maint of the gr4
St Athens closing down red dragon cause the majors are on there way to swampland
Well if iv;e missed anything could you let me know.
where will this all end......................?
so in a nut shell,
The Air Force is down sizing to 41000,
The Air Force overseas commitment is crippling,
All the experiance ground engineers are taking advantage of the second traunch with a possible 3rd to mop up all the rest. Engineers told to reevaluate there tried and trusted working methods and to embrace ideas which industry would not touch with a sh*ty stick, morale is lower than a snakes arse.
Aircrew unsure of getting flying hours in every month.
No one with the balls to stop it getting further out of hand than present.
BAE about to take over 2nd line maint of the gr4
St Athens closing down red dragon cause the majors are on there way to swampland
Well if iv;e missed anything could you let me know.
where will this all end......................?
It is sad to here what is going on at Lyneham but of course they did it at Brize as well. When 101 moved north side (to save maintenance on their Sqn buildings) the engineers from 10 and 101 were amalgamated into VC10 Engineering to save a few posts. Morale of the ground crew Hi to Zero very rapidly!
At least as 10 (sadly) disbands the VC10 engineers will rejoin a proper Sqn so we can hope for an improvement in morale (and perhaps serviceablility (no slight intended)).
Yet again the powers that be bang on about Ethos and then ignore all the damage being done to it by daft profit driven business best practice!
At least as 10 (sadly) disbands the VC10 engineers will rejoin a proper Sqn so we can hope for an improvement in morale (and perhaps serviceablility (no slight intended)).
Yet again the powers that be bang on about Ethos and then ignore all the damage being done to it by daft profit driven business best practice!
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Is it not the fact that we, “The Military”, are being forced to embrace some “faddish” consultant recommended way of carrying out our business i.e. LEAN,PULSE et al, the true reason why things are going wrong?
We are unique in our modus operandi and therefore should not be considered suitable for true profit style business strategies. Leave us alone to do what we do best before it completely breaks. The writing is already on the wall I’m afraid if you read the other threads on this subject!
We are unique in our modus operandi and therefore should not be considered suitable for true profit style business strategies. Leave us alone to do what we do best before it completely breaks. The writing is already on the wall I’m afraid if you read the other threads on this subject!
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Perhaps if filing Murphys and Condors and trying to attract the attention of DASC doesn't work, we should be bi-passing the system completely and writing to our local MPs (attaching printouts of this thread as validation of our concerns). Once parlimentary questions start being asked about the current state of morale and operability across the Royal Air Force, some of our Lords and Masters might start to take note. Its one thing for new ideas to have a detrimental impact on morale, another entirly when it puts flight safety at risk.
As an aside, I know of a guy who was involved in a Lean exercise being run by a 4 man consultancy team on a minimum of £2k per day each at an RAF base. The consultants were extoling the virtues of Lean philososhies on companies like Honda and Toyota but when asked whether the Japanese Military had adopted the process they refused to comment. If our uber-efficient far eastern military counterparts can't make Lean work, what hope is there for us?
As an aside, I know of a guy who was involved in a Lean exercise being run by a 4 man consultancy team on a minimum of £2k per day each at an RAF base. The consultants were extoling the virtues of Lean philososhies on companies like Honda and Toyota but when asked whether the Japanese Military had adopted the process they refused to comment. If our uber-efficient far eastern military counterparts can't make Lean work, what hope is there for us?
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Blunt-end
Be careful of speaking to MPs - I think there might be some rule about that somewhere.
Of course, however, there is nothing to stop your 'civilian' wife or parents doing so. I gather James Gray MP (Tory) is rather switched on to affairs at Lyneham. He and his pals have asked rather embarrasing questions of 'noo laber' in the past. Unsurprisingly, they were met with 'spin and b@llox' in the House but it does raise the temperature at HQ STC/2 Gp - sometimes to your benefit, sometimes not.
"Check six"
flipster
Be careful of speaking to MPs - I think there might be some rule about that somewhere.
Of course, however, there is nothing to stop your 'civilian' wife or parents doing so. I gather James Gray MP (Tory) is rather switched on to affairs at Lyneham. He and his pals have asked rather embarrasing questions of 'noo laber' in the past. Unsurprisingly, they were met with 'spin and b@llox' in the House but it does raise the temperature at HQ STC/2 Gp - sometimes to your benefit, sometimes not.
"Check six"
flipster
Join Date: Jan 2005
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the virus is spreading
its gotta be bad when people are voluteering for Basrah to get out of lyneham because its a better atmosphere! though saying that They- the mighty powers that be- are reducing the ammount of accomodation, equipment and the stager peps just shrunk so there are no spares. oh hang on a sec- there are none at Lyneham either! Thank God for the Spams- otherwise our fleet would be stuck dirtside.
But i don't want you to think this is but a pointless moan- fear not i will be bombarding the high ups with Murphys, and getting everyone else to do the same as soon as i get back to Blighty.
But i don't want you to think this is but a pointless moan- fear not i will be bombarding the high ups with Murphys, and getting everyone else to do the same as soon as i get back to Blighty.
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Rumour has it that a few Eng Off's from swampland are going to the seaside in the near future for an award presentation.
the award is said to be a bronze award in industry for the pulse initiative...... can anyone confirm.......
the award is said to be a bronze award in industry for the pulse initiative...... can anyone confirm.......
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Just had the pleasure of looking through the pages of the summer edition of the Lyneham Glob and found a wonderful article on page 27. It appears to be somebodys attempt to justify what has happened to the Eng Wing setup. No supprises at the fact it fails to mention the current setup is a load of boll**ks and most who are having to work it are pi$$ed right off.
It appears that most of the HLS manpower will be tasked with flight servicings and role changes. I hope the role risk assessments have been amended to accomodate a certain chief who decided the 47/LXX eng ones are no longer valid, just cos they don't say HLS at the top (knobber!!!).
It appears that most of the HLS manpower will be tasked with flight servicings and role changes. I hope the role risk assessments have been amended to accomodate a certain chief who decided the 47/LXX eng ones are no longer valid, just cos they don't say HLS at the top (knobber!!!).
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Now that Lyneham has got new upper management have there been changes to the chaos that was created by the previous OC Eng (or whatever she was called by the time that she left).
Are there any good points to Lean, as we are having the review at Cosford and from what I can see the people conducting the review dont have a clue about what we do or indeed anything about aircraft engineering.
Where did the previous Lyneham Lean thread go or did big brother remove it?
Are there any good points to Lean, as we are having the review at Cosford and from what I can see the people conducting the review dont have a clue about what we do or indeed anything about aircraft engineering.
Where did the previous Lyneham Lean thread go or did big brother remove it?
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Wokkaworld is in the middle of leaning at the moment. Needless to say most of the two stripers and above are praying for redundacy or are just going to get out when their time is up.
I think this really will be the straw that breaks the camels back. I don't know of any NCO's who want to be in the Airforce now, everyone is talking about banging out at the earliest chance.
Moral is very low and the people at the top seem to not give a s it.
Wokkaworld is seriously overstretched with no chance of a let up and now JHC need to chop another 220 people, most of them from wokkaworld!
GO, GO NOW, DON'T LOOK BACK!!
I think this really will be the straw that breaks the camels back. I don't know of any NCO's who want to be in the Airforce now, everyone is talking about banging out at the earliest chance.
Moral is very low and the people at the top seem to not give a s
it.Wokkaworld is seriously overstretched with no chance of a let up and now JHC need to chop another 220 people, most of them from wokkaworld!
GO, GO NOW, DON'T LOOK BACK!!
