Thats one small step.......
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Thats one small step.......
Apologies if this topic has been covered before, but when I put the magic letters "PVR" into the search engine, it came back with 161 threads. What does that tell you? anyway.....
The race is almost run, and this call sign is on the verge of closing down after 24 years in light blue. No matter how committed to the decision, it's a huge step, because it's impossible not to be an institutionalised serviceman after that length of time, and the comfort zone can be very comfortable.
I was interested in other posters experiences of their final few months once the PVR/Option was submitted (are you a pariah?), and then once outside. I suppose the nub of the matter is, "Did I do the right thing?" or was it case of ohh
Opinions (or links to the relevant thread) gratefully received
ZBM2
The race is almost run, and this call sign is on the verge of closing down after 24 years in light blue. No matter how committed to the decision, it's a huge step, because it's impossible not to be an institutionalised serviceman after that length of time, and the comfort zone can be very comfortable.
I was interested in other posters experiences of their final few months once the PVR/Option was submitted (are you a pariah?), and then once outside. I suppose the nub of the matter is, "Did I do the right thing?" or was it case of ohh
Opinions (or links to the relevant thread) gratefully received
ZBM2
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Getting Out
Good decision. I made it several times and chickened out even though I had jobs at the time.
When I finally left I wondered why I had waited so long. I enjoyed the last few months with the comfort zone of a job and a permanent smile on my face!
LB
When I finally left I wondered why I had waited so long. I enjoyed the last few months with the comfort zone of a job and a permanent smile on my face!
LB
Having PVRd and moved on, with some success, to industry let me relate some of my experience, such as it is.
Firstly, after a couple of decades in the Service it's a worry that one might not be able to function on the outside. Put that fear to one side. By all means be slightly nervous at that first interview, but remember that you have done things and been places that most civilians will never experience. I don't just mean the Falklands or Basra. I mean stuff like staff training which the services do so well and which most civilian firms do so really badly. Even the really big companies like BAe wouldn't dream of sending it's people on month or year long managment courses and after ISS, or whatever it's called now, you will be able to get your ideas across in writing, a skill many in industry struggle with.
Secondly, your self discipline will stand you in very good stead. The ability to be places on time, in the right clothes and looking confident is often way beyond other people you will deal with.
Thirdly, you've been through one of the toughest selection systems, the hardest induction and some of the best training anywhere on the planet. You can do almost anything you put your mind to.
So, after 20 years, move on and be confident. It worked for me and 99% of the ex-military guys I work with.
One word of caution - be humble and put push the ''ex-war hero'' line. Let your better qualities shine through and you will do just fine.
MB
Firstly, after a couple of decades in the Service it's a worry that one might not be able to function on the outside. Put that fear to one side. By all means be slightly nervous at that first interview, but remember that you have done things and been places that most civilians will never experience. I don't just mean the Falklands or Basra. I mean stuff like staff training which the services do so well and which most civilian firms do so really badly. Even the really big companies like BAe wouldn't dream of sending it's people on month or year long managment courses and after ISS, or whatever it's called now, you will be able to get your ideas across in writing, a skill many in industry struggle with.
Secondly, your self discipline will stand you in very good stead. The ability to be places on time, in the right clothes and looking confident is often way beyond other people you will deal with.
Thirdly, you've been through one of the toughest selection systems, the hardest induction and some of the best training anywhere on the planet. You can do almost anything you put your mind to.
So, after 20 years, move on and be confident. It worked for me and 99% of the ex-military guys I work with.
One word of caution - be humble and put push the ''ex-war hero'' line. Let your better qualities shine through and you will do just fine.
MB
I agree with what Maxburner meant to say!
"you will be able to get your ideas across in writing"
"be humble and put push the ''ex-war hero'' line"
And another thing: "in the right clothes" I've seen you in the Starskey and Hutch leather jacket and polo neck, not to mention the Huggy Bear flared trousers.
Tarnished
"you will be able to get your ideas across in writing"
"be humble and put push the ''ex-war hero'' line"
And another thing: "in the right clothes" I've seen you in the Starskey and Hutch leather jacket and polo neck, not to mention the Huggy Bear flared trousers.
Tarnished
Tarnished Old Boy,
Before you comment further on my dress standards let me remind you that I've frequently seen you in a skirt!
And what's wrong with my Starsky and Hutch leather jacket? It was good enough for my dad...............
Before you comment further on my dress standards let me remind you that I've frequently seen you in a skirt!
And what's wrong with my Starsky and Hutch leather jacket? It was good enough for my dad...............
You've been trying to find out whats worn under that kilt for way too long.... Won't lower myself to the age old answer, and come to think of it won't lower myself full stop.
How's the brawurst and big beers Trumpet Trousres??
Man of mystery, or many names at least
Tarnished
How's the brawurst and big beers Trumpet Trousres??
Man of mystery, or many names at least
Tarnished
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Enjoy your new life and new found freedom.
I earn 3x as much as I would if I had stayed in, with 3x as much time off!
Seriously though, if like me you find yourself needing the camaradarie, then do like I did and join the Oggies. (Though the novelty drinking in mess bars as an Oggie wore off soon....
)
Good luck.
I earn 3x as much as I would if I had stayed in, with 3x as much time off!
Seriously though, if like me you find yourself needing the camaradarie, then do like I did and join the Oggies. (Though the novelty drinking in mess bars as an Oggie wore off soon....
)Good luck.
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Taclan
Probably a wise move after twenty odd years. I actually managed 35 but go so disillusioned towards the end couldnt hack the extra 2 years so took early PVR. First job was a bit scary to start with but I soon settled down only problem was the stupid company went into administration (Ionica- telecomms company) so that was me out on my ear after 18 months, at the tender age of 55 and a bit.
I could tell you about the farcical time I had with the local Job Centre but dont want to bore you, suffice to say that, because I had an RAF pension...no jobseekers for me!!
Finally managed to gain employment again with a defence contractor and now work happily in E Anglia, and have done for the last 6 years.
The hardest part for me was the sudden loss of all the things I had taken for granted over the years in the RAF, such as regular pay, if the MQ had a problem call wks svcs, and the general sense of belonging to a 'family'. Once I left it was .....you are on your own....now get on with it.
Dont regret 1 day of my 35 years but towards the end could see that I had 'outgrown' the modern 'version' of Her Majestys RAF, now as a civilian I can watch it all happening and go home at 5pm!!
Good luck and hope you manage to make it in civvy street. Plenty of ZBM2 here, fortunately that just makes me more employable.
Probably a wise move after twenty odd years. I actually managed 35 but go so disillusioned towards the end couldnt hack the extra 2 years so took early PVR. First job was a bit scary to start with but I soon settled down only problem was the stupid company went into administration (Ionica- telecomms company) so that was me out on my ear after 18 months, at the tender age of 55 and a bit.
I could tell you about the farcical time I had with the local Job Centre but dont want to bore you, suffice to say that, because I had an RAF pension...no jobseekers for me!!
Finally managed to gain employment again with a defence contractor and now work happily in E Anglia, and have done for the last 6 years.
The hardest part for me was the sudden loss of all the things I had taken for granted over the years in the RAF, such as regular pay, if the MQ had a problem call wks svcs, and the general sense of belonging to a 'family'. Once I left it was .....you are on your own....now get on with it.
Dont regret 1 day of my 35 years but towards the end could see that I had 'outgrown' the modern 'version' of Her Majestys RAF, now as a civilian I can watch it all happening and go home at 5pm!!
Good luck and hope you manage to make it in civvy street. Plenty of ZBM2 here, fortunately that just makes me more employable.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
TacLan - You'll never look back. Did 22 years and now as a manager of people and a company, the most valuable skills I use on a day to day basis were acquired while working for Betty Windsor.
One word of advice - almost everyone's first job out of the service turns out to be their real resettlement course, where you learn who you are and what you do well. Enjoy it, but be prepared to be looking for a job that fits your newly discovered skills in about a year's time.
Good luck, and get ready to bring your dosh home in a wheel barrow.
One word of advice - almost everyone's first job out of the service turns out to be their real resettlement course, where you learn who you are and what you do well. Enjoy it, but be prepared to be looking for a job that fits your newly discovered skills in about a year's time.
Good luck, and get ready to bring your dosh home in a wheel barrow.
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TacLan
All the very best of luck. The only bit that I missed (and still do) is the special sense of humour that service personnel have - civvies can be too b****y serious!
Mind you, there's always this forum
All the very best of luck. The only bit that I missed (and still do) is the special sense of humour that service personnel have - civvies can be too b****y serious!
Mind you, there's always this forum
Don't forget that ex-military people who work in industry are normally selected by their employer after recommendation from others who can vouch for their abilities. No-one gets 'posted' to a job in the real world!
Hence you will often find some very switched-on people who are passionate about their work, but who probably weren't yes-men or ar$e-lickers in their time in the military.
It can also mean that some senior officers who finally realise that they're not going to be Air Marshals and who then try to get a job 'outside' will be shown the door if a highly talented ex-SNCO tells the boss "That bloke is an utter ar$e - we don't want him!". I know for certain that's why a couple of people didn't get into a particular airline - they had been blackballed by those they'd shafted in former years. Revenge can indeed be sweet!
Less chilli next time, eh Trumpet Trousers? I took me a few days to recover, even though the Weissbier did help to put out the fire!
Hence you will often find some very switched-on people who are passionate about their work, but who probably weren't yes-men or ar$e-lickers in their time in the military.
It can also mean that some senior officers who finally realise that they're not going to be Air Marshals and who then try to get a job 'outside' will be shown the door if a highly talented ex-SNCO tells the boss "That bloke is an utter ar$e - we don't want him!". I know for certain that's why a couple of people didn't get into a particular airline - they had been blackballed by those they'd shafted in former years. Revenge can indeed be sweet!
Less chilli next time, eh Trumpet Trousers? I took me a few days to recover, even though the Weissbier did help to put out the fire!
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I PVR'd after 8 years and withdrew it to fly ice cream vans in Yorkshire. Finally left at the 16/38 point and after 15 years in an airline I wish I had left earlier. Yes, the RAF was fun flying but there is more fun to be had with lolly in your pocket and to a greater extent, master of your own destiny. You even get to go on holiday with the wife and kids.
Avoid imitations
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After 18 years I took my 38/16 point option to leave (not a PVR) and immediately became a pariah in the eyes of my Stn Cdr. Not only did he give me an extremely poor final write up (contrary to my 1st and 2nd R.O.s) but he denied my request to exit 5 weeks early (permitted by QRs to take up a firm offer of a civilian post) which almost cost me my first civvy job.
So I sent him the bill for 28 days rate ones in Hong Kong, where I did my resettlement course. In an envelope, marked for "personal attention of". He was obliged to pay it out of his budget
Still miss the social life, but from what I can see it's not what it used to be anyway.
So I sent him the bill for 28 days rate ones in Hong Kong, where I did my resettlement course. In an envelope, marked for "personal attention of". He was obliged to pay it out of his budget
Still miss the social life, but from what I can see it's not what it used to be anyway.
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Well said BEagle,
"- and who then try to get a job 'outside' will be shown the door if a highly talented ex-SNCO tells the boss "That bloke is an utter ar$e - we don't want him!". "
Always remember 'Be nice on the way up as you never know who you may meet on the way down'.
Philrigger
"- and who then try to get a job 'outside' will be shown the door if a highly talented ex-SNCO tells the boss "That bloke is an utter ar$e - we don't want him!". "
Always remember 'Be nice on the way up as you never know who you may meet on the way down'.
Philrigger
PVR'd while on Loan Service 9 years after becoming Spec Aircrew, having thoroughly enjoyed 2 years in the Army and 26 in the Royal Air Force. Had absolutely no problems as my 1st RO was very understanding (ie he was leaving at his next option) and the rest of the LS crowd didn't care a hoot. Left the equatorial Fantasy Factory the day after 11 Sep 01, arguably not the best time to start job-seeking as a pilot.
PVR = one of the best work-related decisions I ever made. I put the Resettlement system to good use, and can highly recommend the advice doled (har har) out at the Uxbridge centre. Didn't have to apply for any of the jobs I didn't fancy at the time (N Sea, Africa) - found gainful employment before my time was up.
The advice given above about the first job being the real resettlement is sound. In my case, I only really found this out when I took up my second job (still with the same company, but overseas). It was then that I realised how lucky I'd been with the first choice! Make sure you know what you're trying to achieve by seeking work and a way of life outside; I now know that - while the money is nice - I'd rather keep the quality-of-life factor uppermost. I still get to see more of the family than many of my Odiham/ Benson contemporaries though, which makes it worthwhile.
PVR = one of the best work-related decisions I ever made. I put the Resettlement system to good use, and can highly recommend the advice doled (har har) out at the Uxbridge centre. Didn't have to apply for any of the jobs I didn't fancy at the time (N Sea, Africa) - found gainful employment before my time was up.
The advice given above about the first job being the real resettlement is sound. In my case, I only really found this out when I took up my second job (still with the same company, but overseas). It was then that I realised how lucky I'd been with the first choice! Make sure you know what you're trying to achieve by seeking work and a way of life outside; I now know that - while the money is nice - I'd rather keep the quality-of-life factor uppermost. I still get to see more of the family than many of my Odiham/ Benson contemporaries though, which makes it worthwhile.
One small step
Taclan,
I was tempted to put chapter and verse of my very happy 20+ years and why I decided to PVR at age 43. However, suffice to say that having made that decision, the last 15 years have been some of the most challenging and enjoyable years of my life. The skills that the RAF equip you with will stand you in good stead (and it is due to those skills and experiences that I have made progress within the multi-national company that I am lucky enough to work for - including being internally head-hunted for my current and previous positions).
Transition? I handed my uniform in on the Thursday, took Friday off as I figured the RAF owed me a day-off and started my new job on the Monday (I had to string together every available day of resettlement, terminal leave etc etc in order to meet the job start date - PMC would not budge on 6 months notice).
Caveats - resist the temptation to be forever saying "when I was..." and unless asked do not tell war stories. (I quickly learned to avoid our Test Lab as there was an ex-Chief Tech sootie there who bored the pants off anyone foolish enough to mention anything remotely connected to aircraft).
Enjoy!
I was tempted to put chapter and verse of my very happy 20+ years and why I decided to PVR at age 43. However, suffice to say that having made that decision, the last 15 years have been some of the most challenging and enjoyable years of my life. The skills that the RAF equip you with will stand you in good stead (and it is due to those skills and experiences that I have made progress within the multi-national company that I am lucky enough to work for - including being internally head-hunted for my current and previous positions).
Transition? I handed my uniform in on the Thursday, took Friday off as I figured the RAF owed me a day-off and started my new job on the Monday (I had to string together every available day of resettlement, terminal leave etc etc in order to meet the job start date - PMC would not budge on 6 months notice).
Caveats - resist the temptation to be forever saying "when I was..." and unless asked do not tell war stories. (I quickly learned to avoid our Test Lab as there was an ex-Chief Tech sootie there who bored the pants off anyone foolish enough to mention anything remotely connected to aircraft).
Enjoy!
