Scenic views out the office window
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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Scenic views out the office window
If I take photos out of the "office window"whilst "taking in the scenery at 7 miles a minute" or take photos of the "company transport" on the ground, who owns the copyright to the photos if I sell them? Do I need to ask permission to print them? Does Auntie Liz get a share of any money I make? A company has just seen my portfolio and wants to give me oodles of cash (almost as much as flying pay!)...
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I think QRs or SSOs state that you must seek the Staish's permission to take on "additional employment" whilst working for HMQ. I suspect that the purveying of photos taken whilst earning a crust in the back seat of a Tonka might just be construed as that, or worse! Perhaps, misappropriation of HMQ's time. Perhaps, adopting an attitude whilst airborne that might constitute a FS hazard! Whatever, somebody somewhere is going to take a different view (no pun) than you to your new found fortune and fame!
Whatever you do, I would consult QRs, speak to P1 and take no further action until you have ascertained that you ain't going to end up with oodles of cash and a court martial to prove how you earned it!
Whatever you do, I would consult QRs, speak to P1 and take no further action until you have ascertained that you ain't going to end up with oodles of cash and a court martial to prove how you earned it!
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I would suggest that you accept the oodles of cash and then donate it all to SSAFA, British Legion or another worthy service based charity; perhaps minus a SMALL percentage to offset cost of developing and printing etc. That way you get your portfoliio published and do some good.
I'm not familiar with the rules, but have always thought that making money by taking photos out of a service a/c would be frowned upon. After all, it was the taxpayer who payed for all of that airborne time.
I'm not familiar with the rules, but have always thought that making money by taking photos out of a service a/c would be frowned upon. After all, it was the taxpayer who payed for all of that airborne time.
Yes, there is indeed an official way of requesting approval to take on out-of-hours employment ('moonlighting'). I did - by waiting until a mate was acting Sqn boss, then getting it stamped by the Stn Cdr. Made a few pennies; then in the 28 days before my retirement date I ramped up the arrangement as one is permitted to do....before continuing as a paid consultant the verynext day.
A few years earlier I took quite a few piccies for a hobby; no-one objected when I asked whether it was OK to get paid for them to be used in AirForces Monthly. Later, some ADC said that an AOC wanted "A few more modern aircraft pictures on the walls of HQ ** Gp" and said that he heard that I had taken some, therefore could he have some 16 x 12 copies. "Sure - who's paying?" I asked. He then burbled on about Crown Copyright etc - until I told him "Sorry, they were 35mm slides, not negatives. If you want Cibachrome prints, they'll have to be done commercially and you can either pay up or f*ck off!"
He never did get his prints.
A few years earlier I took quite a few piccies for a hobby; no-one objected when I asked whether it was OK to get paid for them to be used in AirForces Monthly. Later, some ADC said that an AOC wanted "A few more modern aircraft pictures on the walls of HQ ** Gp" and said that he heard that I had taken some, therefore could he have some 16 x 12 copies. "Sure - who's paying?" I asked. He then burbled on about Crown Copyright etc - until I told him "Sorry, they were 35mm slides, not negatives. If you want Cibachrome prints, they'll have to be done commercially and you can either pay up or f*ck off!"
He never did get his prints.
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Not sure on the copyright bit but a word on advance planning if you intend to charge and then donate the proceeds to charity such as RAFBF. Snag is if the cash goes through your account those nice chaps at the Inland Revenue say it is income and tax you. The fact that you pass on the same amount to charity is your own affair. How do I know this trivia? Well once worked for a very high priced individual who submitted an article to the professional press and was, surprisingly, paid. Passed the cash to Army Ben Fund but because the publishers had declared the payment as an expense to themselves the tax man promptly asked for his cut from my boss. Guess who was tasked to sort it out ... and who actually wrote the article in the first place
Don't expect staggering riches for aircraft pictures.
Ian B**** (Lightning/F3), Chris A**** (ditto, I think), and Mike R**** (Jag) might have useful advice, since all have done it in the past.
PM me if you think a working aviation journo can help.
Ian B**** (Lightning/F3), Chris A**** (ditto, I think), and Mike R**** (Jag) might have useful advice, since all have done it in the past.
PM me if you think a working aviation journo can help.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
...and don't forget that "at the subsequent Board of Inquiry" said pictures usually become exhibit A for the prosecution - sorry, the Board. Happened to a couple of guys in GW1, who having completed Exercise 47 (wazzing and zooming) proceeded to park the Helicopter all over the Desert. Bloggs had been taking happing snappy's out of the window during the "Airshow" and provided all the evidence needed for self Petard Hoisting.
WSO1, I'm guessing our offices are rather similar...
According to one of my squadron mates there is a website on t'internet to where you can upload photos with a price attached, so if any magazines etc want them they click 'Pay' and you get the dosh - anybody have any further details?
By the way, if anybody wants to look at some of my 'handiwork' from the office window, check out the RAF website and look under 'Latest Images'... I reckon I must be good to sell a few having given some away for free!
Frodo_Monkey
I may as well be the first to whack up a piccy...
Hows that for a starter?
F_M
PS I made sure it was a \'10 for you BEags!
According to one of my squadron mates there is a website on t'internet to where you can upload photos with a price attached, so if any magazines etc want them they click 'Pay' and you get the dosh - anybody have any further details?
By the way, if anybody wants to look at some of my 'handiwork' from the office window, check out the RAF website and look under 'Latest Images'... I reckon I must be good to sell a few having given some away for free!
Frodo_Monkey
I may as well be the first to whack up a piccy...
Hows that for a starter?
F_M
PS I made sure it was a \'10 for you BEags!
Last edited by frodo_monkey; 19th Aug 2005 at 15:44.
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Nice shot! Very atmospheric!
As for the 'legallity of it all'. Its worth a close look at each picture to check for those added extra boxes that didn't used to be there.
I seem to remember a certain Buccaneer nav who took a belting picture of one of his mates riding the ground effect while on a JMC. Poor chap was hauled over the coals 'cos 'arry Staish didn't think the camera was cleared for flight and was mighty p#$%&d-off at the No 2 for flying below msd.
Spoil Sports!
Still, if we didn't have the photos no-one would believe us.
As for the 'legallity of it all'. Its worth a close look at each picture to check for those added extra boxes that didn't used to be there.
I seem to remember a certain Buccaneer nav who took a belting picture of one of his mates riding the ground effect while on a JMC. Poor chap was hauled over the coals 'cos 'arry Staish didn't think the camera was cleared for flight and was mighty p#$%&d-off at the No 2 for flying below msd.
Spoil Sports!
Still, if we didn't have the photos no-one would believe us.
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Mrs D'Sorderlee (an ex-RAF Photo 'G') believes that the relevant details will be available in the 1988 Copyright Act (Photography) (sic). However, she is also of the opinion that, as you were on duty at the time, in a Service ac, technically the copyright belongs to the employer, although you would own the negatives.
Oops!
Oops!
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I'm guessing your photos are taken in the UK?
Beware, Internationally, copyright Law for photographs is quite complex... in France, for example (probably worst case scenario). If you take a holiday snap of, say, an Airbus parked at Charles De Gaul Airport. To protect copyright and human rights... Before you can publish (or sell) your picture you'd need the approval of every single person in the picture, the Airport and Airbus (and probably the ground equipment manufacturers), the architect of the building/airport as well as the aircraft/equipment designers
Best to enjoy your pictures for the memories and try not to make an extra buck... unless you want to give up the flying suit and take up "snapping" professionally.
Beware, Internationally, copyright Law for photographs is quite complex... in France, for example (probably worst case scenario). If you take a holiday snap of, say, an Airbus parked at Charles De Gaul Airport. To protect copyright and human rights... Before you can publish (or sell) your picture you'd need the approval of every single person in the picture, the Airport and Airbus (and probably the ground equipment manufacturers), the architect of the building/airport as well as the aircraft/equipment designers
Best to enjoy your pictures for the memories and try not to make an extra buck... unless you want to give up the flying suit and take up "snapping" professionally.
Nice shot, Frodo_Monkey, - pity it wasn't a proper VC10 tanker though!
And beware of taking videos of Harrier mates in case someone accuses you of paedophilia!
And beware of taking videos of Harrier mates in case someone accuses you of paedophilia!
Bit of a red herring re tax me thinks.
Do the QR910 thing, set yourself up as a company, preferably with your missus as majority partner, after write-offs you'll be doing well to make a taxable profit from selling some pics!!
Especially if you're only a 10% partner.
Do the QR910 thing, set yourself up as a company, preferably with your missus as majority partner, after write-offs you'll be doing well to make a taxable profit from selling some pics!!
Especially if you're only a 10% partner.
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Tax
Don't forget that if you give the money to charity as Gift Aid then you/they get the tax back in the end. For example, if you receive £100, the Revenue take £40 of it, you then give the remaining £60 to the charity. They claim back some of the tax and you can get the remainder back in your tax return. And give that to them too, if you're feeling generous.
Edited when my sums didn't add up!
Edited when my sums didn't add up!
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"Mrs D'Sorderlee (an ex-RAF Photo 'G') believes that the relevant details will be available in the 1988 Copyright Act (Photography) (sic). However, she is also of the opinion that, as you were on duty at the time, in a Service ac, technically the copyright belongs to the employer, although you would own the negatives."
Spot on, the pics would be "Crown Copyright"
Spot on, the pics would be "Crown Copyright"