MiG 29 OVT video
The 'Orgasmatron' appeared in the movie 'Sleeper'. In 'Barbarella', the device was called an 'Excessive Machine'. But it didn't cope with Jane Fonda's lustiness and whilst she was being 'pleasured' in the machine by the arch villain, it became overloaded and was destroyed. Ms Fonda (a most savoury babe indeed back in 1968, for those too young to have known) clearly enjoyed the experience considerably!
There was also a movie called 'Orgazmo' in which an 'orgazmorator' was used to generate multiple orgasms in the victim.
I don't imagine that Motörhead's 1986 album 'Orgasmatron' had a similar effect!
How did we get from MiG 35 to Motörhead via Jane Fonda? Tangential indeed!
There was also a movie called 'Orgazmo' in which an 'orgazmorator' was used to generate multiple orgasms in the victim.
I don't imagine that Motörhead's 1986 album 'Orgasmatron' had a similar effect!
How did we get from MiG 35 to Motörhead via Jane Fonda? Tangential indeed!
Last edited by BEagle; 25th Aug 2005 at 08:35.
Indeed - but précised for those who don't want to wade through the whole guff on Google!
But I vividly recall the look on Jane Fonda's face as she writhed around under the fiingers of that machine....
But I vividly recall the look on Jane Fonda's face as she writhed around under the fiingers of that machine....
Nobody in the right mind wants to get into a friggin' dogfight!! What about that concept is so difficult to understand.
Too much machismo and testosterone, bound to end in tears, one small mistake and you are toast.
Better to shoot BVR and run away bravely to fight another day
A jet doing back flips, half pikes and double nelsons or whatever, is still in the same bit of sky. Something that can do the speed of heat and still manoeuvre with some decent sensors and decent weapons and ROE that allow it to shoot will always win the day.
Now, airshow crowd pleaser..... thats a different matter. But if I were CAS or PM I know what I'd want.
Tarnished
Too much machismo and testosterone, bound to end in tears, one small mistake and you are toast.
Better to shoot BVR and run away bravely to fight another day
A jet doing back flips, half pikes and double nelsons or whatever, is still in the same bit of sky. Something that can do the speed of heat and still manoeuvre with some decent sensors and decent weapons and ROE that allow it to shoot will always win the day.
Now, airshow crowd pleaser..... thats a different matter. But if I were CAS or PM I know what I'd want.
Tarnished
Or just hoof off a nuclear-tipped AAM and vapourise a cubic mile of sky plus anything contained therein?
Wasn't it over-reliance on missiles and BVR philosophy which led to the Naval Fighter Weapons School at Miramar?
"On March3,1969 the United States Navy established an elite school for the top one percent of its pilots. Its purpose was to teach the lost art of aerial combat and to insure that the handful of men who graduated were the best fighter pilots in the world.
They succeeded.
Today,the Navy calls it Fighter Weapons School.
The flyers call it:
Top Gun "
(....run music, cue credits...)
Take your point though. Even back in the late '80s the initial Fox 1 was disregarded when doing MLPIs; 150 ARA with front AIM7 BVR and rear hemisphere AIM9 was the 'standard' attack. But we didn't have enough fatigue left to do much in the way of doggers except for maybe a week at Alconbury with the Aggressors and another at Deci on the ACMI range.
Wasn't it over-reliance on missiles and BVR philosophy which led to the Naval Fighter Weapons School at Miramar?
"On March3,1969 the United States Navy established an elite school for the top one percent of its pilots. Its purpose was to teach the lost art of aerial combat and to insure that the handful of men who graduated were the best fighter pilots in the world.
They succeeded.
Today,the Navy calls it Fighter Weapons School.
The flyers call it:
Top Gun "
(....run music, cue credits...)
Take your point though. Even back in the late '80s the initial Fox 1 was disregarded when doing MLPIs; 150 ARA with front AIM7 BVR and rear hemisphere AIM9 was the 'standard' attack. But we didn't have enough fatigue left to do much in the way of doggers except for maybe a week at Alconbury with the Aggressors and another at Deci on the ACMI range.
Last edited by BEagle; 27th Aug 2005 at 06:58.
Back in the days when we did blip track analysis to figure out the geometry, things like ASRAAM and Helmet Mounted death rays would have save all the fatigue. We used have have a fatigue monitor, who would keep track of what we used on MLPIs LLPIs etc and you could see the guys who could actually work out the geometry and those who were ham fisted and yanked it round like a mad man.
Tarnished
Tarnished
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Turn 'n' burn or stand off?
Having worked on some future studies I would agree with the majority of views: if you can stay out of sight and get a kill, that's the best option (the targets' phrase is "where the f*%k did that come from?"). If you have to trade shots, you'd better have a capable weapon SYSTEM (not just the Mx); if you are in a dogfight you've porked it. It might be fun, but should not be necessary. The only rider to that is for older a/c (I have done blip track analysis). On exercise over N Sea met an Aardvark which threw the scanner into the stops so hard it stayed sulking in the corner and with no 'winders left it was time for a hopeful unlocked guns on camera, coupled with the phrase "jam that you b*5t*rd".
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BVR was touted in the mid 50s as being the answer to all, but even now, there seem to have been very few BVR kills Worldwide, compared to intercepts.
As I have said many times in this thread, I am a lay person, so please bear with me - but it does seem to me that in potential future scenarios, ie peacekeeping, that it is more than possible that the Politicos are probably, in their helpful ways, going to hobble the blue side with Rules of Engagement that insist on a positive visual identification, before being cleared to fire. If this is so, then the beauties of speed of heat and even Meteor seem to be a bit optimistic. If this should happen, then as various posters have already pointed out - then you are into a visual, short range arena, like it or not.
The systems might be fabbo - but they did say that with the Phantom and Lightning, some 45 years ago. So - Where does Typhoon stand in that lot when even the unlikeliest of opponents are going to be armed with either the SU 30MK or the Mig 35?
This is an age old argument I know. But what are the realistic 21st Century answers?
Conan
As I have said many times in this thread, I am a lay person, so please bear with me - but it does seem to me that in potential future scenarios, ie peacekeeping, that it is more than possible that the Politicos are probably, in their helpful ways, going to hobble the blue side with Rules of Engagement that insist on a positive visual identification, before being cleared to fire. If this is so, then the beauties of speed of heat and even Meteor seem to be a bit optimistic. If this should happen, then as various posters have already pointed out - then you are into a visual, short range arena, like it or not.
The systems might be fabbo - but they did say that with the Phantom and Lightning, some 45 years ago. So - Where does Typhoon stand in that lot when even the unlikeliest of opponents are going to be armed with either the SU 30MK or the Mig 35?
This is an age old argument I know. But what are the realistic 21st Century answers?
Conan
Conan
Imagine if you will the CBLF being required to provide the visual confirmation of (hostile) target. Two scenarios present themselves depending on the geometry you can make and the number of good guys you have. The phrase "eyeball and shooter" describes the tactics employed.
If the ROE say positive visual ID then there are optical and IR devices to give you the eyes of Superman which still effectively preserve your BVR capability.
If he "might be hostile" and you are brave enough (or are told to) get within his weapons range to make sure of his ID then you better have two of you. One out front at the speed of heat who shouts hostile and keeps going to get the most separation ASAP, the trailer has been watching all this on his sensors and hoofs off a missile at a point when frat is low risk.
If you are a solo then speed of heat until you ID him, if that is in front of you then a missile with minimum range to arming would help (but beware fragging yourself). After the merge, max rate/min radius turn plus HMD, plus high off-boresight missile will give you the quickest shot.
These work for either head on or tailchase geometry.
After that just f@ck off out of Dodge and home for tea and medals.
Did I miss anything?
Tarnished
ASRAAM + Meteor(AMRAAM)+HMD+ High SEP is a good combination
Imagine if you will the CBLF being required to provide the visual confirmation of (hostile) target. Two scenarios present themselves depending on the geometry you can make and the number of good guys you have. The phrase "eyeball and shooter" describes the tactics employed.
If the ROE say positive visual ID then there are optical and IR devices to give you the eyes of Superman which still effectively preserve your BVR capability.
If he "might be hostile" and you are brave enough (or are told to) get within his weapons range to make sure of his ID then you better have two of you. One out front at the speed of heat who shouts hostile and keeps going to get the most separation ASAP, the trailer has been watching all this on his sensors and hoofs off a missile at a point when frat is low risk.
If you are a solo then speed of heat until you ID him, if that is in front of you then a missile with minimum range to arming would help (but beware fragging yourself). After the merge, max rate/min radius turn plus HMD, plus high off-boresight missile will give you the quickest shot.
These work for either head on or tailchase geometry.
After that just f@ck off out of Dodge and home for tea and medals.
Did I miss anything?
Tarnished
ASRAAM + Meteor(AMRAAM)+HMD+ High SEP is a good combination
