Dealing with DHE...

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Looking for a bit of advice with a small housing snag.

Just been posted to a new place. I'm single, and sick of mess living. Last few units were quite happy with this and would allow singlies to take up surplus families quarters; some with the proviso that it was only you living there, others happy for a few mates to share or something along those lines.

You'll have guessed that the new unit isn't happy with that. In common with a lot of places, it's recently got a fair bit smaller than it used to be, and DHE have confirmed that there are a good few surplus quarters available. However, it seems that the exec chain on this station "won't entertain" the idea of a single bloke living out.

The mess is one of the older ones around, and the rooms are fairly basic and fairly poor. Notwithstanding that, I'd quite like to get out anyway! Local rental opportunities are very expensive, and I need a bit more saving before I buy a place.

Any advice on how to present a case to OC Admin et al? I'm not really sure what their thinking is, but it seems my options are to put up with a poor mess, fork out for a rental pad and deal with the commute, or get married; quickly!

I would have imagined that OC A and co would be happy to have young officers pushing to stay part of the base community, rather than being forced to live out, commute, and never see the mess.

Any tips?

5F6B (off ring shopping....)

[Sideshow Bob]

there is a JSP available on the intranet that lays out all the rules and regs. Can't remember off hand the number but it should be pretty easy to find if you have intranet access, just look under publications and then JSPs. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

[Climebear]

JSP 464 Chap 10

Annex B


2. Single (and married unaccompanied) Service personnel. Single Service personnel and Service personnel serving married unaccompanied (provided their family is not occupying SFA elsewhere), for whom single living accommodation is available, may apply to occupy surplus SFA in accordance with the following criteria1 (the eligibility will not normally apply to RN personnel in the Port Areas):

a. Applications to occupy surplus SFA should be approved by the local Service Commander and authorised by the DHE.

b. No co-habitation for single personnel. Married unaccompanied personnel may have spouse/family visits for no more than 28 days (aggregated or continuous) in any 61 day period.

c. Allocation of SFA Type (furnished or unfurnished) is at the discretion of the local Service Commander in consultation with the DHE, depending on which SFA are considered to be surplus, the location of the SFA (preferably inside the wire), and taking account of any wider impact on the integrity of the SFA Estate.

d. Only one authorised single (or married unaccompanied) occupant per surplus SFA (no sharing).

e. The single (and married unaccompanied) occupant is to sign the Service Licence.

f. Single (and married unaccompanied) personnel should be given 28 days notice to vacate (whenever possible), and are required to vacate if absences from the duty station exceed 56 days (unless dispensation to retain has been granted by the DHE and the Local Service Commander).

g. Single (and married unaccompanied) occupants pay the entitled rate of SFA charge and SFA CILOCT (abated by 25% to reflect single occupancy).

h. Single (and married unaccompanied) personnel who occupy surplus SFA on posting are entitled to current relocation provisions for moves from/to single living accommodation in accordance with the appropriate Regulations. Personnel who opt to move out of SLA to occupy surplus SFA mid tour, or are required to vacate the surplus SFA mid tour, have no entitlement to relocation allowances. Singles occupying surplus SFA have no entitlement to the relocation package available to those living out in private accommodation.

i. Failure to observe the terms and conditions of occupancy may result in the local Service Commander’s permission to be withdrawn.

[The Gorilla]

The main problem you have to overcome is the Stn Cdr, OC Admin and the others in his food chain. Whilst the rules may allow you to live in surplus DHE accommodation, if the execs don't like it at your particular station then you are pushing smelly stuff up a hill. No point in presenting a case because:

a) You wont make them change their minds.

AND

b) They wont ever forget you tried to!!

If the problem does truly lie with your execs, go private rented in town and get your life back!!!

[Climebear]

I would be surprised if OC Admin is the executive authority for this. He/she would be the implementer of Cdr's (or Cdrs') intent.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Many thanks for the replies so far. I've found the relevant JSP quoted above, and the issue really does appear to be that if there're surplus quarters, I can have one, as long as the execs don't mind.

I'm more worried about Gorilla's comment; I'd love to ask why OC A doesn't fancy me living out, but I'd be worried of the consequences. Basically, I have the option of living in a fairly run down, old mess, with very little storage space, no en suite, and a long waiting list for suites; or paying through the nose to rent in the nearest city and putting up with a lengthy commute.

Also, as a relatively new bloke, I quite fancy being close to the base so I can get to know my married colleagues who do live there; I don't understand why the station execs would object to me wanting to remain a part of the base's life when so many people don't nowadays.

Anyone have any advice for dealing with execs? Is it worth a word with the staish at the next Happy Hour? Maybe a visit to OC Admin's office? A letter? A chat to someone further down the food chain first? DHE have said they're happy, but OC A "won't entertain" the idea of singlies living out.

It seems a bit bloody-minded to me. I can't see why he'd want someone in my shoes to have to put up with a crap mess, or live miles away at great expense when there's a great pile of empty quarters......

[Climebear]

As I said before, it shouldn't be OCA's decision on the policy - even if he is the enforcer. Perhaps you should as your command chain to discuss at your Stn's command group (or Stn Exec's meeting)

[5 Forward 6 Back]

... will have a word with my Flt Cdr I think, and see where next to take it.

[SpotterFC]

Best of luck if you can make a chink in the armour. DHE touted this idea when they first took over, and there was a very sharp intake of breath - but not before several mates had taken advantage of it! Seemed to die a death for a while - mainly at the Army's behest I think, but if the JSP has finally been issued all power to your elbow.

Things OC A might be thinking about: what sort of base are you at - does it have a significant trainee population (which might in his eyes mean wild parties)? Have there been any recent shenanigans between spouses and singlies (or with OC A's missus )? Are the singlies seen as 'rowdy' by the married people?

You might think about gathering the opinions of some of the married guys and girls on your unit before taking it further. If anything untoward has gone on that you are unaware of you might indeed be trying to herd cats - and remember that this just leaves you knackered and pi$$es off the cats!

[c130jbloke]

My suggestion is that you (politely) inform your exec chain to ram it!

First of all it is a private contract between you and the DHE, secondly there are precedents all over the place and (amazingly) the DHE are probably up for it as they will be getting in rent for the property.

Unless there is some sort of SY or FP issue going on then you could also try a rant about the shameful restrictions being placed on your human rights and that when your boozy mates come round to watch the footy on the plasma, you wont pi$$ off the Air Cdre in the VIP room down the corridor !

Best of luck!!!

C130JB

[Oggin Aviator]

you might indeed be trying to herd cats

Not as difficult as one might think. This might be of interest .... and p.s. guess who just got the contract to update/upgrade the dii stuff .......?

Sorry to hijack the thread. Good luck with your battle with OC 'A' or the Staish. I think DHE would rather someone be in there than not, unless of course there is a cunning plan to sell them off and make yet more money for their shareholders/directors*.

*delete as appropriate

Oggin

[FJJP]

You don't say who your boss is - which stn exec is he? First of all, don't pidgeonhole OC A or the Staish anywhere at any time. If they have a bee in their bonnets about this, it will pre-warn them and the door will slam in your face. You need to work through the command chain and get your boss on board - he can argue for you, provided he is with you.

Discuss the situation with him, then write to him formally, enclosing a copy of the relevant bit of the JSP, asking him for permission to apply to live in surplus SFA rather than the mess. I would explain that:

a. You prefer independant living, but the advantages of living in SFA are that you can save towards eventual house purchase because you won't have the extra expense of private housing [that subtly indicates your intention to live out of the mess without actually saying so].

b. You would be in a better position to more fully support the mess, because there would be no driving involved to private accommodation.

c. You would be quickly available in the event that people would be required at very short notice.

Ask him to formally support your application through the stn exec chain.

DHE have nothing to do with the argument. If the local Service Commander OKs the policy, they will authorise, so don't get them involved other than to confirm the availablity of surplus quarters.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

FJJP

[teeteringhead]

... or at worst let it be known you might redress - seems entirely appropriate in this case. Just mention "redress" casually to OC PSF or PMS ... it'll get back to OC A in minutes few .... and you might not actually have to do it!

... or you could actually redress or seek an interview with AOC under QR (??) 1000 ...

[Climebear]

Oggin Aviator

I think DHE would rather someone be in there than not, unless of course there is a cunning plan to sell them off and make yet more money for their shareholders/directors*.

Rather an inaccurate statement there. DHE (who are no longer DHE but now Defence Estates (Housing Directrate)) neither own the houses nor have shareholders/directors. They rent them off private companies - primarily Annington homes but also others under PFIs etc.

There is a contractual obligation on the MOD to release some FQs back to thier owners. The owners of the property can sell off these as they wish - this is not an MOD issue. The reason that the MOD would wish to release surplus qaurters is so that we do not have to pay rent/maintenance on something we do not need. In theory, to release money for things we do need.

[A2QFI]

Some years ago, as a Civil Servant and when I was on detached duty to an RAF station, the Civil Service wouldn't allow me to stay in the Officer's Mess because it was not up to the standard they expected, in particular, no ensuite facilities. I realise this sounds a bit OTT but that was the way they played it. On the basis that you have no en suite facilities are you paying a reduced rate for your occupation of this accomodation? The base I am speaking of now has en suite in the airmen's blocks and quite right too.

[Scale 21]

It was well known @ that sleepy tandem rotor place in Hants, that the SWOs dogsbody (looked like shrek, but not green and no mini antlers), had his own FMQ and he wasn't even a civil servant, let alone a forces type. Did I mention he was single too (and that Daddy was once Chf Clk)? Oh, and there was a general shortage of accommadation for ALL ranks at that time (still is?)

Goes to show that our 'lords and masters' like to prove that we know that they are just that- what's the difference between a singly renting a surplus FMQ and a house down town- apart from the singly remains financially better off, as does DHE.

Best of luck, hope you get one as they gave loads out to NCA at Bordon...could argue that if we're all the same, why aren't we treated the same regardless of location (or rank...??)

[D-IFF_ident]

5F6B, Have you spoken to OC PSF, PMS, A and HTS one on one? I'd start with booking interviews with each of them, then making friends with the DHE staff. After you get turned down try, as I did, writing to the Sec of State for Def. After he's made a ministerial enquiry to MOD you'll get a rather curt letter from an O-6 in London, telling you that, yes, if you had a child or a boyfriend whom you had made a commitment to be in a single-sex relationship with, then you could have SFA, but to bear in mind that the other natural parent of any child could not live in the house with you; only anybody else you choose, like a convicted criminal who may pose a danger to the child, as happened at a base in the East of England a few years ago...

Then, after 18 months of battling with the dogma, have a word with the padre, who can move mountains. However, you'd need welfare grounds for him to intervene.

Good luck, this is one of those cases where you might not get what is available to you, earn a few enemies in the execs and feel generally p****d off - and it all comes down to one or two people's opinions.