21st Century airborne pirates - Diego Garcia
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Abuse
This thread deals with a valid safety issue for international airline traffic.
Please refrain form slime-throwing if U cannot contribute to this discussion.
Tnx
Please refrain form slime-throwing if U cannot contribute to this discussion.
Tnx
Last edited by dessas; 1st Aug 2005 at 07:42.
Were these TA/RAs whilst you were flying in an established airway?
Diego Garcia is on Chagos archipelago, part of the British Indian Ocean Territiories. It is not a 'USAF base' as such; however, the Americans are permitted to use the aerodrome and have a large presence there.
Diego Garcia is on Chagos archipelago, part of the British Indian Ocean Territiories. It is not a 'USAF base' as such; however, the Americans are permitted to use the aerodrome and have a large presence there.
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Beagle
Yes. We use UA474 by Diego.
This puts us right across N/W-bound departring and S/E-bound arriving traffic at Diego.
My company has had 2 dedicated meetings on d subject with reps from Mumbai FCC, but generally they can't do much as this happens in the uncontrolled area of Mumbai FIR.
I also was told unoficially some days ago that the following a/l have encountered same problems: Emirates, SIA, SAA.
This puts us right across N/W-bound departring and S/E-bound arriving traffic at Diego.
My company has had 2 dedicated meetings on d subject with reps from Mumbai FCC, but generally they can't do much as this happens in the uncontrolled area of Mumbai FIR.
I also was told unoficially some days ago that the following a/l have encountered same problems: Emirates, SIA, SAA.
If you wanted to deal with a "valid safety issue" in a sensible and professional manner, why start by calling the USAF "pirates"? Even if they have caused RAs and are at fault. it is neither the correct term (unless they were trying to rob you!) nor is such emotive language likely to promote a debate without "slime" being thrown.
You also said:
"4. These occurances normaly happen in Indian airspace - so these pirates do not have any regards for international rules and regs."
Just to clarify, at more than 12 nm from land, the airspace is not owned by any country. As long an aircraft keeps out of controlled airspace then it is simply flying above "International Waters" and can operate with "due regard" for other traffic, without requiring diplomatic clearance. To operate in the controlled airspace in that FIR/UIR, the aircraft requires clearance from the controlling authority. The problems that you have encountered may be that the USAF has not operated with "due regard" but I doubt that you are going to find any specific answers on here.
By the way, I typed "NOTAMS FJDG" into Google and the first hit was the NOTAMs that have been pasted above from the DoD source. So there is no nasty US conspiracy either.
You also said:
"4. These occurances normaly happen in Indian airspace - so these pirates do not have any regards for international rules and regs."
Just to clarify, at more than 12 nm from land, the airspace is not owned by any country. As long an aircraft keeps out of controlled airspace then it is simply flying above "International Waters" and can operate with "due regard" for other traffic, without requiring diplomatic clearance. To operate in the controlled airspace in that FIR/UIR, the aircraft requires clearance from the controlling authority. The problems that you have encountered may be that the USAF has not operated with "due regard" but I doubt that you are going to find any specific answers on here.
By the way, I typed "NOTAMS FJDG" into Google and the first hit was the NOTAMs that have been pasted above from the DoD source. So there is no nasty US conspiracy either.
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BP
Of course I can download and print d NOTAMs. But as long as they do not come on our comp brief from London it is illegal to use them as oficial paperwork.
Second, these guys are pirates to me!!! As are the Su drivers that shot down the Korean jet outside the so called 12 mile zone.
I c yr attitude does not differ from the law of the High Seas - maybe we should ask for parley for incurring a TA/RA...
Second, these guys are pirates to me!!! As are the Su drivers that shot down the Korean jet outside the so called 12 mile zone.
I c yr attitude does not differ from the law of the High Seas - maybe we should ask for parley for incurring a TA/RA...
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dessas
Just a small point but, are you sure it's legal, safe or sensible for an airline to routinely carry out extended range operations by declaring an ETOPS alternate for which it does not have any valid NOTAMS? I wouldn't let your airline's regulating authority know about that if I were you.
Have you considered that some of the activity that you witnessed might have been the subject of NOTAMs?
Just a small point but, are you sure it's legal, safe or sensible for an airline to routinely carry out extended range operations by declaring an ETOPS alternate for which it does not have any valid NOTAMS? I wouldn't let your airline's regulating authority know about that if I were you.
Have you considered that some of the activity that you witnessed might have been the subject of NOTAMs?
dessas, your attitude is hardly likely to engender much in the way of sympathy.
Yes, 'due regard' over International Waters is perfectly legal. But if you received a RA whilst in a published airway, you should report it through your flight safety reporting system.
Calling people 'pirates' is childish and unnecessary. State the facts and you might get some advice; make puerile comments and people will, quite rightly, tell you to $od off.....
Your choice...
Yes, 'due regard' over International Waters is perfectly legal. But if you received a RA whilst in a published airway, you should report it through your flight safety reporting system.
Calling people 'pirates' is childish and unnecessary. State the facts and you might get some advice; make puerile comments and people will, quite rightly, tell you to $od off.....
Your choice...
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Dessas, your girlfriend's name wouldn't happen to be Julie would it- as in !Me Julie! or do you TXT a lot with your mobile? 
Furthermore, why don't you suggest that if anyone can download the NOTAMS from the internet, then why not suggest that your planning office find a way to do the same themselves and authenticate them? Job done
Furthermore, why don't you suggest that if anyone can download the NOTAMS from the internet, then why not suggest that your planning office find a way to do the same themselves and authenticate them? Job done
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Tnx a lot!
This is the kind of response I was hoping to get!
I will give the eml address to our Safety dept.
As already mentioned before, there is still no response from the local USA Consulate on the topic.
And relations between this country and USA are not fantastic over exactly the Chagos Archipelago.
The issue about NOTAMs has already been raised with Dispatch.
I hope it does not take forever. Quite a few of our guys are using data from inet, on the side.
I’ve always been unhappy about the "Nil" on the brief about FJDG, but it seems our management was happy to burry their heads in the sand, as long as it came on the brief from the provider in London.
This is the kind of response I was hoping to get!
I will give the eml address to our Safety dept.
As already mentioned before, there is still no response from the local USA Consulate on the topic.
And relations between this country and USA are not fantastic over exactly the Chagos Archipelago.
The issue about NOTAMs has already been raised with Dispatch.
I hope it does not take forever. Quite a few of our guys are using data from inet, on the side.
I’ve always been unhappy about the "Nil" on the brief about FJDG, but it seems our management was happy to burry their heads in the sand, as long as it came on the brief from the provider in London.
