Aptitude for Obs/Nav
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Aptitude for Obs/Nav
Just wondering if anybody could help me. I am going to cranwell for aptitude tests, my goal is to become an observer in the FAA. I would really appreciate it if anybody could give me examples of the Nav tests and/or sites where i may find some. Also if anybody could give me an idea what the written tests are like at AIB that would be great.
Many Thanks
L'fly
Many Thanks
L'fly
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Aim a little higher
Any reason you want specifically to be an Observer? If I were you I'd keep all my front seat options open till they tell you what your aptitude really is and even then be careful since if they are short of Observers, you pass for Pilot, and the greater need is in the other seat guess what you'll be offered? I don't pretend it's the be all and end all but open your horizons...I did and it's a gas
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Best of luck Ladyfly, Whichever seat you end up in it is great fun and a great challenge. Have you looked at the Royal Navy web-site under the Fleet Air Arm button, they seem to have updated it re description of roles of aircrew, training etc.
Bismark
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Enraged of Fleet Air Arm
Axel-Flo You really have made a crass statement here. Since when is being an observer a secondary to pilots.
In my experience, which is not insubstantial (and I am a pilot) the observers call the shots direct the aircraft and generally tell pilots what to do.
If someone wants to be an observer good luck to them, it is a lot more demanding and those that reach the frontline really are the best of the best.
Good luck ladyfly
Si
Axel-Flo You really have made a crass statement here. Since when is being an observer a secondary to pilots.
In my experience, which is not insubstantial (and I am a pilot) the observers call the shots direct the aircraft and generally tell pilots what to do.
If someone wants to be an observer good luck to them, it is a lot more demanding and those that reach the frontline really are the best of the best.
Good luck ladyfly
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Ladyfly,
good luck in your aspirations for Zero. Axel flo is right, don't pigeon hole yourself into only one option. If anyone tells you that zeros are best, remember, front seat always have the best view, and the biggest window to climb out of if you ditch!
sorry can't help with the aptitude, play on an X Box, worked for me!
FLY NAVY FOREVER!!!!!!!
good luck in your aspirations for Zero. Axel flo is right, don't pigeon hole yourself into only one option. If anyone tells you that zeros are best, remember, front seat always have the best view, and the biggest window to climb out of if you ditch!
sorry can't help with the aptitude, play on an X Box, worked for me!
FLY NAVY FOREVER!!!!!!!
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Well said Si Clik. And from a pilot which is to be congratulated.
Lets not let this thread degenerate into another front vs back seat / RN vs RAF slagging thread. For those who have been through the selection process recently lets try and give ladyfly some sound, objective advice.
Oggin
Lets not let this thread degenerate into another front vs back seat / RN vs RAF slagging thread. For those who have been through the selection process recently lets try and give ladyfly some sound, objective advice.
Oggin
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Easy Tiger!!!
OA...from one who has perhaps just completed (the intonation in your post) said aptitude tests your post lacks somewhat the advice you advocate giving to Lady fly...No?
SI...now me ol'...my post was in no way meant to be dismissive of the requirements of an Observer or the quality of said individuals but it would be a 'Kin huge naive statement of yours if you believe you should limit your options so early on in ones career. I have been in both front and back seats of the mighty King and other types to boot.
If i look back from whence i came it covers vast tracks of diversity...therefore at 171/2 when i joined the Andrew i am so glad i didn't restrict my choices of future employmet (christ I could have been a PWO(U) by now....(a couple of divorces and more sea time than Horatio) Following your thought train the selection of subjects for o\'level,at least like wot I made- when i was 13, had they not included maths, english and a physics based science, would have precluded me from a commission with the Dark Blue. On a more close to home basis i suppose you agree with No BFT and streaming post EFT for pilots?
My point was simply to open the Ladys eyes to more distant/other horizons...if in deed she hadn't done it herself (hence my question of her motives)...Aviation makes the sky the limit which is kind of no real limit if you want it to be.
On the banterish side though in reply...I remember meeting an Admin Officer at Bampton who appeared in one of the recruiting leaflets and was quoted as having said "when I went to Biggin Hill for selection they offered me pilot but I said No it's Admin for me or nothing....."
"YEAH ROIT...."
Oh and another thing...its strange how many (NOT ALL I hasten to add) other types of aircrew on these forums just want to class themselves as "Aircrew" and not Obs/Nav/ALM/AEOp or whatever wheras Pilots tend to put "Pilot" be proud of your individual trade and own up to it. IMHO often the respect given to a particular point of view is hugely enhanced by association to the type of brevet/flying badge belonging to the person making the input! Get credit for what you actually have done and not what you make it sound like you have done...
SI...now me ol'...my post was in no way meant to be dismissive of the requirements of an Observer or the quality of said individuals but it would be a 'Kin huge naive statement of yours if you believe you should limit your options so early on in ones career. I have been in both front and back seats of the mighty King and other types to boot.
If i look back from whence i came it covers vast tracks of diversity...therefore at 171/2 when i joined the Andrew i am so glad i didn't restrict my choices of future employmet (christ I could have been a PWO(U) by now....(a couple of divorces and more sea time than Horatio) Following your thought train the selection of subjects for o\'level,at least like wot I made- when i was 13, had they not included maths, english and a physics based science, would have precluded me from a commission with the Dark Blue. On a more close to home basis i suppose you agree with No BFT and streaming post EFT for pilots?
My point was simply to open the Ladys eyes to more distant/other horizons...if in deed she hadn't done it herself (hence my question of her motives)...Aviation makes the sky the limit which is kind of no real limit if you want it to be.
On the banterish side though in reply...I remember meeting an Admin Officer at Bampton who appeared in one of the recruiting leaflets and was quoted as having said "when I went to Biggin Hill for selection they offered me pilot but I said No it's Admin for me or nothing....."
"YEAH ROIT...."Oh and another thing...its strange how many (NOT ALL I hasten to add) other types of aircrew on these forums just want to class themselves as "Aircrew" and not Obs/Nav/ALM/AEOp or whatever wheras Pilots tend to put "Pilot" be proud of your individual trade and own up to it. IMHO often the respect given to a particular point of view is hugely enhanced by association to the type of brevet/flying badge belonging to the person making the input! Get credit for what you actually have done and not what you make it sound like you have done...
Last edited by Axel-Flo; 23rd Jun 2005 at 09:24.
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Axel
err .... no.
I did the aptitudes in '91. I am on my fourth Observer flying tour as I write. I guess I got my intonation wrong - I am not qualified to comment on present aptitude tests cos I did them so long ago.
Oggin
OA...from one who has perhaps just completed (the intonation in your post) said aptitude tests your post lacks somewhat the advice you advocate giving to Lady fly...No?
I did the aptitudes in '91. I am on my fourth Observer flying tour as I write. I guess I got my intonation wrong - I am not qualified to comment on present aptitude tests cos I did them so long ago.
Oggin
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Many Thanks guys, and oggin if you have any advice at all I would love to hear it?
L'fly
Does anybody know if the army takes people on as observers, or is that role not really applicable?
L'fly
Does anybody know if the army takes people on as observers, or is that role not really applicable?
When I was at Shawbury a few years back, there were loads of Army Air Corps Observers (all Corporals) who were crossing over to pilot. I think AAC Observers were an interim measure to backfill 2nd pilot slots on squadrons.............. But I am more than willing to be corrected on this by someone in the nod.
Tightgit
I'm a bit out of date here but...
The army certainly used to have observers, I believe that the crew concept now is for two pilots per aircraft.
(An army observer was always an NCO more often than not a L/Cpl or Cpl). He (for they were all he's then!) wasn't trained to anything like the standard of a Navy observer.
However, if (sweeping generalisation coming) the Naval pilot gets the aircraft to the scene of the fight and the Naval observer then 'fights' the aircraft. Apache aircraft commander with the army may be a comparable task. I'm sure that some newer fellow pongoes (or ex-pongoes) will be able to elaborate further when they've worked out how to switch the computer on
Ps before any apache dudes get miffed that I have compared the task of an army pilot to a navy observer, please re-read the post
The army certainly used to have observers, I believe that the crew concept now is for two pilots per aircraft.
(An army observer was always an NCO more often than not a L/Cpl or Cpl). He (for they were all he's then!) wasn't trained to anything like the standard of a Navy observer.
However, if (sweeping generalisation coming) the Naval pilot gets the aircraft to the scene of the fight and the Naval observer then 'fights' the aircraft. Apache aircraft commander with the army may be a comparable task. I'm sure that some newer fellow pongoes (or ex-pongoes) will be able to elaborate further when they've worked out how to switch the computer on
Ps before any apache dudes get miffed that I have compared the task of an army pilot to a navy observer, please re-read the post
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ladyfly - Just be able to divide 563256487 by 37854 in your head whilst juggling some sharp knives, all whilst maintaining balance on a unicycle inside a bouncy castle! Just kidding.
When I did AIB the written test comprised an essay and some verbal reasoning IIRC. There was also a maths test, an IQ test thing and maybe some other tests that I have forgotten - it was a while ago (plus I had a few beers in the pub that night which has probably blurred memory of the day). Perhaps someone with more recent experience could help out here. In fact, just found out some info here on the RN website.
1. Search these forums as bigsmelly mentions above.
2. Maybe try some mental arithmatic tests you can find online or in books.
... for the Careers Office interview / AIB .....
3. Research the FAA. PM me with your email address and I'll send you some general FAA stuff I sent to another recent application which is useful for the interviews etc.
4. Research the RN and RN Officer careers - good place here is the RN website. Its no use knowing all about WAFUs and their kit if you dont know how they fit into the broader picture.
5. Research current affairs. When I did my AIB Robert Maxwell had just jumped over the side of his yacht and we talked about that for a while. Read the Telegraph (even if you dont like it) - get to know the defence correspondent's name etc.
At the AIB be yourself, they can see if anyone is lying etc as they see so many people all the time, relax and try to enjoy yourself. If you are not successful and if still young enough, dont be too disheartened - you may be able to try again later.
Good Luck
Oggin
When I did AIB the written test comprised an essay and some verbal reasoning IIRC. There was also a maths test, an IQ test thing and maybe some other tests that I have forgotten - it was a while ago (plus I had a few beers in the pub that night which has probably blurred memory of the day). Perhaps someone with more recent experience could help out here. In fact, just found out some info here on the RN website.
1. Search these forums as bigsmelly mentions above.
2. Maybe try some mental arithmatic tests you can find online or in books.
... for the Careers Office interview / AIB .....
3. Research the FAA. PM me with your email address and I'll send you some general FAA stuff I sent to another recent application which is useful for the interviews etc.
4. Research the RN and RN Officer careers - good place here is the RN website. Its no use knowing all about WAFUs and their kit if you dont know how they fit into the broader picture.
5. Research current affairs. When I did my AIB Robert Maxwell had just jumped over the side of his yacht and we talked about that for a while. Read the Telegraph (even if you dont like it) - get to know the defence correspondent's name etc.
At the AIB be yourself, they can see if anyone is lying etc as they see so many people all the time, relax and try to enjoy yourself. If you are not successful and if still young enough, dont be too disheartened - you may be able to try again later.
Good Luck
Oggin
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With regards to the Aptitude tests sat at OASC, the FAA applicants sit a shortened version to the RAFs tests. I am unsure as to the reason behind this.
They will test you for Pilot, Observer and Air Traffic Control. If you are looking primarily at Observer then I don't know if you only need to pass for Observer, but pilot will require you to pass both pilot and observer.
The tests comprise mental arithmetic, aircraft orientation, hand-eye coordination and many other things. When you get your invitation to attend OASC to sit the FATs you will be provided with all the details of the tests you sit.
Not many of them could be practiced for I found, perhaps all you can do to practice is mental arithmetic and possibly some non-verbal reasoning skills.
With regard to the tests at AIB, the link above explains most of that. I would presume that covers everything. Not having attended AIB I couldn't confirm that for definate - I'll confirm that on Thursday for you (hopefully not Wednesday)!
They will test you for Pilot, Observer and Air Traffic Control. If you are looking primarily at Observer then I don't know if you only need to pass for Observer, but pilot will require you to pass both pilot and observer.
The tests comprise mental arithmetic, aircraft orientation, hand-eye coordination and many other things. When you get your invitation to attend OASC to sit the FATs you will be provided with all the details of the tests you sit.
Not many of them could be practiced for I found, perhaps all you can do to practice is mental arithmetic and possibly some non-verbal reasoning skills.
With regard to the tests at AIB, the link above explains most of that. I would presume that covers everything. Not having attended AIB I couldn't confirm that for definate - I'll confirm that on Thursday for you (hopefully not Wednesday)!
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On aptitude:
Without sounding too glib, aptitude really is that - aptitude. I'm not sure that any manner of practice will help you in any great sense apart from maybe honing the brain a little. Certainly those of us not brought up on X-box staggered our way through just fine. You can get into Mensa type puzzles which will certainly introduce you to logic puzzles but as for the rest - mental agility and hand/eye coordiantion - what you have right now is all you need. Don't kid yourself into thinking you can revise for an aptitude test like a GCSE. If you could, it wouldn't be an aptitude test would it? It would be a memory test.
On pilot/observer:
The points raised so far, passionate ones at that, all have validity. The question you need to ask is why in particular you want to be an Observer? Family connections? Work experience? Magazine article? professional satisfaction? All have implications for the type of advice you receive.
Without sounding like an advertisment, the aircrew of tomorrow will be less categorised in pilot/observer terms and more likely into weapons systems operators.
The RN is really pushing hard for fixed wing aircrew, a job where you get a chance to do all the things the observer does and get a great view of the world at the same time. You have the added benefit of always getting off the boat first.
Standing by...
Without sounding too glib, aptitude really is that - aptitude. I'm not sure that any manner of practice will help you in any great sense apart from maybe honing the brain a little. Certainly those of us not brought up on X-box staggered our way through just fine. You can get into Mensa type puzzles which will certainly introduce you to logic puzzles but as for the rest - mental agility and hand/eye coordiantion - what you have right now is all you need. Don't kid yourself into thinking you can revise for an aptitude test like a GCSE. If you could, it wouldn't be an aptitude test would it? It would be a memory test.
On pilot/observer:
The points raised so far, passionate ones at that, all have validity. The question you need to ask is why in particular you want to be an Observer? Family connections? Work experience? Magazine article? professional satisfaction? All have implications for the type of advice you receive.
Without sounding like an advertisment, the aircrew of tomorrow will be less categorised in pilot/observer terms and more likely into weapons systems operators.
The RN is really pushing hard for fixed wing aircrew, a job where you get a chance to do all the things the observer does and get a great view of the world at the same time. You have the added benefit of always getting off the boat first.
Standing by...
Last edited by FB11; 27th Jun 2005 at 14:58.
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Many Thanks for all of your advice, the reason I'm not going for pilot is because i don't believe my eyesight is good enough, despite having an instructors medical, issued by the RAF. it isn't perfect 
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With regards to the Aptitude tests sat at OASC, the FAA applicants sit a shortened version to the RAFs tests. I am unsure as to the reason behind this.
Edit: Ladyfly; as far as I know, the eyesight requirements are identical for both Observer and Pilot.