Falklands Conflict '82
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Falklands Conflict '82
Any memories of the Falklands War?
I am looking for any anecdotes to do with the Air War during Op Corporate. I am currently in the early stages of pulling together a bit of a general history from the operators perspective and would like to get as many accounts as possible.
I am interested in all views - RAF, Army and Naval flyers as well as the views of those helped (or otherwise) by the air assets in theatre. I am also interested in views from/of the Argentinian experience both from the FJ perspective and the Falklands based assets.
Second hand is fine as I am not planning on publishing formally and am looking to build up a general picture/feeling about aviation during the War.
Any accounts will be gratefully read.
Regards
HS
I am looking for any anecdotes to do with the Air War during Op Corporate. I am currently in the early stages of pulling together a bit of a general history from the operators perspective and would like to get as many accounts as possible.
I am interested in all views - RAF, Army and Naval flyers as well as the views of those helped (or otherwise) by the air assets in theatre. I am also interested in views from/of the Argentinian experience both from the FJ perspective and the Falklands based assets.
Second hand is fine as I am not planning on publishing formally and am looking to build up a general picture/feeling about aviation during the War.
Any accounts will be gratefully read.
Regards
HS
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"As Sharkey would no doubt tell you?"
Yeah, I'm getting that impression so far. However, he did add the little caveat at the front of the book effectively saying that the opinions expressed in the book are his and may differ to those of others. I suspect they do!
Would anyone care to add support or perhaps some 'balance' some his points of view, or would that be inappropriate in this forum?
Good to get a chronological day-by-day account though.
Cheers
Yeah, I'm getting that impression so far. However, he did add the little caveat at the front of the book effectively saying that the opinions expressed in the book are his and may differ to those of others. I suspect they do!
Would anyone care to add support or perhaps some 'balance' some his points of view, or would that be inappropriate in this forum?
Good to get a chronological day-by-day account though.
Cheers
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Try reading Sandy Woodward's and Julian Thompson's books for other perspectives on the war, esp Woodwards as his 2nd edition has been edited/extended to answer some of the claims in the other 2 books. Interesting reading.
Sharkey certainly doesn't like the RAF, if my read of his book serves me right. Fairly elevated opinion of his own abilities, too. Sure, must be a clever chap to have flown SHAR but he constantly rams how good he must be down your throat (oooerr).
Hoobie Schnaps,
I take you have read "Falklands - The Air War" by the British Aviation Research Group. Impossible to find now, but a thorough account of the air war.
Hoobie Schnaps,
I take you have read "Falklands - The Air War" by the British Aviation Research Group. Impossible to find now, but a thorough account of the air war.
The BARG book can still be found second hand, and is absolutely definitive, though not (I'd say) of much use for direct first hand accounts. I saw one last time I was in Keegan's bookshop in Reading.
There are two good books of first hand accounts. One is 'Falklands, Witness of Battles' by Salvador Mafe Huertas
and Jesus Romero Briasco. The other is 'Air War South Atlantic' by Jeff Ethell 
and Alfie-Baby Price 
. Both include many accounts by aircrew from both sides.
Both Huertas and Dr Alfred Price PhD
also produced large numbers of articles based on their researches for the book, some of which were also based on first hand accounts. The magazine Wings of Fame (now absorbed into International Air Power Review) included articles on Skyhawk and Dagger ops with some first hand accounts.
The old part works 'Warplane' and 'Take Off' also included some articles about the Falklands - I remember reading one two- or three-parter that was based on new interviews with Paul Barton, and which had a ribbon diagram showing his 'kill'.
I've never seen any first hand accounts by any of the Punta Arenas det, however
- either Canberra PR9 
or Hercules 
aircrew. Perhaps a fellow PPRuNer can help? 
There are two good books of first hand accounts. One is 'Falklands, Witness of Battles' by Salvador Mafe Huertas
and Jesus Romero Briasco. The other is 'Air War South Atlantic' by Jeff Ethell and Alfie-Baby Price . Both include many accounts by aircrew from both sides.Both Huertas and Dr Alfred Price PhD
also produced large numbers of articles based on their researches for the book, some of which were also based on first hand accounts. The magazine Wings of Fame (now absorbed into International Air Power Review) included articles on Skyhawk and Dagger ops with some first hand accounts.The old part works 'Warplane' and 'Take Off' also included some articles about the Falklands - I remember reading one two- or three-parter that was based on new interviews with Paul Barton, and which had a ribbon diagram showing his 'kill'.
I've never seen any first hand accounts by any of the Punta Arenas det, however
- either Canberra PR9 or Hercules aircrew. Perhaps a fellow PPRuNer can help?
Maybe you should also consider reading books that take more of an overall view of the conflict, there is a very good one by Martyn Middlebrook. I have the second edition which has the title Task Force, I do not know what the current edition is called. However, there is more information in the public domain now than here was back then.
Sharkey Ward's book (yes I have a copy) is indeed controversial - but my take on some of what he said was....
Some Sea Harrier Pilots lacked the expertise in using AI radar - perhaps due to the rundown of fixed wing naval aviation in the 60s/70s. Since Blue Fox wasn't fully functional until they were on their way South - hence a steep learning curve, particularly for those who hadn't used AI radar before.
Due to the FAA run down, the task group commander (Woodward) and many of his staff lacked the skills and experience to use fighter aircraft as a weapon system, perhaps because exercises involving full scale task group situations had not take place. Cold War NATO scenarios yes, but out of area stuff?
Both of these problems are likely to happen again, thanks to losing the Sea Jet. Do we never learn?
As for his hostility to the RAF (and others) maybe it is frustration at the above and the way the Fleet Air Arm got screwed (both before and after the conflict) around by both politicians and senior officers. Nor did they get the recognition they deserved.
Anyway, back to the topic....other books worth considering are Amphibious Assault Falklands by Mike Clapp, and Through Fire And Water by Mark Higgit, the story of HMS Ardent, a forgotten victim of 1982, lost to multiple air attacks.
Also Google or similar should find some interesting articles.
Sharkey Ward's book (yes I have a copy) is indeed controversial - but my take on some of what he said was....
Some Sea Harrier Pilots lacked the expertise in using AI radar - perhaps due to the rundown of fixed wing naval aviation in the 60s/70s. Since Blue Fox wasn't fully functional until they were on their way South - hence a steep learning curve, particularly for those who hadn't used AI radar before.
Due to the FAA run down, the task group commander (Woodward) and many of his staff lacked the skills and experience to use fighter aircraft as a weapon system, perhaps because exercises involving full scale task group situations had not take place. Cold War NATO scenarios yes, but out of area stuff?
Both of these problems are likely to happen again, thanks to losing the Sea Jet. Do we never learn?
As for his hostility to the RAF (and others) maybe it is frustration at the above and the way the Fleet Air Arm got screwed (both before and after the conflict) around by both politicians and senior officers. Nor did they get the recognition they deserved.
Anyway, back to the topic....other books worth considering are Amphibious Assault Falklands by Mike Clapp, and Through Fire And Water by Mark Higgit, the story of HMS Ardent, a forgotten victim of 1982, lost to multiple air attacks.
Also Google or similar should find some interesting articles.
"Nor did they get the recognition they deserved."
If you think that the Navy (and especially the SHar force) didn't get the credit it deserved, you must have been inside since '82. The magnificent contribution has been acknowledged and celebrated again and again, while the contribution of the light blue aviators has been persistently down-played.
As to Ward, his self aggrandising book is almost stomach turning. The bloke plainly did a quite brilliant job as a squadron boss, but he demeans himself with his arrogance and boasting, and plainly resents giving any real credit to even the rival SHar squadron in Corporate, let alone to anyone else.
Which is why he's such a ..........
'controversial'
figure, I guess.
If you think that the Navy (and especially the SHar force) didn't get the credit it deserved, you must have been inside since '82. The magnificent contribution has been acknowledged and celebrated again and again, while the contribution of the light blue aviators has been persistently down-played.
As to Ward, his self aggrandising book is almost stomach turning. The bloke plainly did a quite brilliant job as a squadron boss, but he demeans himself with his arrogance and boasting, and plainly resents giving any real credit to even the rival SHar squadron in Corporate, let alone to anyone else.
Which is why he's such a ..........
'controversial'
figure, I guess.
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Thankyou Jackonicko.
A few words in praise of the Victor crews that launched night after night to refuel themselves and then onward to the Vulcans, Nimrods and Hercs. Having been told that the fleet would never be required to night receive fuel they all converted in double quick time, went out in large formations into the dark and murky South Atlantic night sky and completed complex refuel plans on a scale never seen before. The pressure was very high and built up as the campaign progressed. In spite of very limited back up facilities there were remarkably few failures and some courageous acts. Although greatly respected by those closely involved they gained little praise from the wider world.
A few words in praise of the Victor crews that launched night after night to refuel themselves and then onward to the Vulcans, Nimrods and Hercs. Having been told that the fleet would never be required to night receive fuel they all converted in double quick time, went out in large formations into the dark and murky South Atlantic night sky and completed complex refuel plans on a scale never seen before. The pressure was very high and built up as the campaign progressed. In spite of very limited back up facilities there were remarkably few failures and some courageous acts. Although greatly respected by those closely involved they gained little praise from the wider world.
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My particular hero was the one Chinook that survived the sinking of the Atlantic Conveyor. This aircraft flew endlessly carting men and materiels from ship to shore, barely stopping to swop crews and carrying more than all of the RN Sea Kings put together. I would like to see some numbers, if anyone knows any (that can be released).
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I wrote a quite intriguing paper during the conflict.
Read by Royalty.
Actioned by many, including Royalty.
Yep, I spent the war organising a Royal visit to one of HM flying units.
But currency on the V bomber wasn't in short supply:-(
Read by Royalty.
Actioned by many, including Royalty.
Yep, I spent the war organising a Royal visit to one of HM flying units.
But currency on the V bomber wasn't in short supply:-(
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Nuking Buenos Aires
I find one of Sharkey's statements to be remarkable. On page 248, he says...
"It would have taken much more than a lone Vulcan raid to upset Buenos Aires, and it was rumoured around the fleet that if things went badly for us then the city would indeed be attacked. Maggie would send a Polaris missile without a warhead - and if the Argentines didn't toe the line after that, she would send one with a warhead."
Surely the Falklands conflict would never have degenerated to the point where the UK would have nuked a major Argie city, unless of course the RN has/had conventionally armed Polaris!? Even then, it would have been a major escalation way out of proportion to the original raison d'etre for Operation Corporate! or am I missing something?
Magoo
"It would have taken much more than a lone Vulcan raid to upset Buenos Aires, and it was rumoured around the fleet that if things went badly for us then the city would indeed be attacked. Maggie would send a Polaris missile without a warhead - and if the Argentines didn't toe the line after that, she would send one with a warhead."
Surely the Falklands conflict would never have degenerated to the point where the UK would have nuked a major Argie city, unless of course the RN has/had conventionally armed Polaris!? Even then, it would have been a major escalation way out of proportion to the original raison d'etre for Operation Corporate! or am I missing something?
Magoo
I suspect that the "....rumour around the fleet" was Ward's own.
Total bolleaux even to think that the UK would use a strategic nuclear missile against Argentina.
Never trust a beardy!
Total bolleaux even to think that the UK would use a strategic nuclear missile against Argentina.
Never trust a beardy!
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Agree with BEagle there. I was recently talking to an ex-RM/pongo/SAS/secret agent (depending on how much wine he had drunk), who claimed that the whole war was a set-up job to win Maggie votes. More bolleaux, I'm afraid. As we all know, the only person who would do anything like that resides in No 10 now rather than then. But that, as they say, is another thread.
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Oh sure Zoom GWII and Kosovo were sure-fire vote winners I'd go back to your Daily Mail if I were you
However, Goose Green fought for political aims? More than a few that were there seem to think so.
I'd go back to your Daily Mail if I were youHowever, Goose Green fought for political aims? More than a few that were there seem to think so.
29sqn phantoms end of 82
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"Military Intelligence Blunders" by Col. John Hughes-Watson offers a concise perspective on the road to the war, including the role of the DIS, JIC and FCO in mis-calling Galtieri's intentions.
I/C
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wf1
What?
livng in tents , ever moving runway the royal engineers put straight every night after endless sorties , its still got to be better than mpa 1435 flt tonkas