Congrats 230 (Tiger) Sqn
Tigs - methinks thou doth protest too much.....
We don't get to have parties, we're always on call - and now providing UK cover for SH tasks due to overstretch.
Ah..I've got to go - I can hear the Ginsters lorry reversing up to the door of the crewroom, I just need to put down my pipe and get my boots back on......
At least rescuing dogs beats searching for hours for people you know are already dead (the really glamorous part of SAR).
We don't get to have parties, we're always on call - and now providing UK cover for SH tasks due to overstretch.
Ah..I've got to go - I can hear the Ginsters lorry reversing up to the door of the crewroom, I just need to put down my pipe and get my boots back on......
At least rescuing dogs beats searching for hours for people you know are already dead (the really glamorous part of SAR).
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Crab,
I served from 1971 to 2004 (so I think I am qualified to talk) and regret to have to say that your comments about saving dogs and searching for dead bodies is frankly, offensive and seriously out of order.
I did both during my stint on SAR in my mighty yellow egg whisk, and I can tell you that nothing whatsoever, is more important than finding and recovering people, even those who have perished.
You clearly have a problem with the SH fleet, and it is of course, your right to express that, but please don't sink any fruther from the depths you are currently at by regarding the rescue of an animal (any animal) as 'beating' the recovery of someone who is dead.. On that count you are quite wrong Sir, and shame on you.
Kind regards to all
The Swinging Monkey
'caruthers, time for a grouse I feel'
I served from 1971 to 2004 (so I think I am qualified to talk) and regret to have to say that your comments about saving dogs and searching for dead bodies is frankly, offensive and seriously out of order.
I did both during my stint on SAR in my mighty yellow egg whisk, and I can tell you that nothing whatsoever, is more important than finding and recovering people, even those who have perished.
You clearly have a problem with the SH fleet, and it is of course, your right to express that, but please don't sink any fruther from the depths you are currently at by regarding the rescue of an animal (any animal) as 'beating' the recovery of someone who is dead.. On that count you are quite wrong Sir, and shame on you.
Kind regards to all
The Swinging Monkey
'caruthers, time for a grouse I feel'
Crab
SARboys work for a living? Don't make me laugh! 2 days on and a week off isn't it?
Brilliant paint job on the Puma - bit different to the way it looked when I picked it up from the factory in Yeovil in 1970. Good luck to all on 230 - I had a fantastic time during my (total of) 7 1/2 years in places various (never went to war, though!).
SARboys work for a living? Don't make me laugh! 2 days on and a week off isn't it?
Brilliant paint job on the Puma - bit different to the way it looked when I picked it up from the factory in Yeovil in 1970. Good luck to all on 230 - I had a fantastic time during my (total of) 7 1/2 years in places various (never went to war, though!).
Maybe it is a sad reflection on our litigious and blame-free society that there is always someone ready to take offence at any remark whether it was intended offensively or not and Swinging Monkey, you have stepped into the breach in this case.
ShyTorque was bantering about lost dogs in reference to some of the rather odd jobs that the SAR Force (and I'm sure you were no exception) are asked to do. If a person goes into the water around mainland UK with no survival equipment they are going to be dead in under an hour - I and many others have found themselves searching many square miles of sea for someone who has no chance of survival because the MCA computers ignore the obvious. I like being a rescue pilot because you get to bring them back alive but whilst I agree that a body recovery is important for the relatives, how many hours have you spent searching for a person in the water 2 or 3 hours after they went missing and how many times did you find anything? Coastal drowners are the only ones you are likely to find and then only when they get washed up - anyone who falls overboard out to sea will likely never be found. These are harsh facts of life, not offensive throwaway lines.
ShyTorque was bantering about lost dogs in reference to some of the rather odd jobs that the SAR Force (and I'm sure you were no exception) are asked to do. If a person goes into the water around mainland UK with no survival equipment they are going to be dead in under an hour - I and many others have found themselves searching many square miles of sea for someone who has no chance of survival because the MCA computers ignore the obvious. I like being a rescue pilot because you get to bring them back alive but whilst I agree that a body recovery is important for the relatives, how many hours have you spent searching for a person in the water 2 or 3 hours after they went missing and how many times did you find anything? Coastal drowners are the only ones you are likely to find and then only when they get washed up - anyone who falls overboard out to sea will likely never be found. These are harsh facts of life, not offensive throwaway lines.
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Crab,
What I actually said was that 'your comments' were offensive and out of order, and I stick by that, they are Sir.
What you say is perfectly correct, and indeed we have ALL wasted countless hours searching for things that there is very little or no chance of ever finding, but that is really not the point. You are part of the UK SAR organisation, and part of that remit is to search and recover bodies.
Yes, you correctly point out the harsh facts, but try putting yourself in the position of a relative. Maybe then, you will undertsand that no matter how futile you think your search may be, it IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT in the eyes of those left behind.
Kind regards to you and all the SAR teams
Kind regards
TSM
What I actually said was that 'your comments' were offensive and out of order, and I stick by that, they are Sir.
What you say is perfectly correct, and indeed we have ALL wasted countless hours searching for things that there is very little or no chance of ever finding, but that is really not the point. You are part of the UK SAR organisation, and part of that remit is to search and recover bodies.
Yes, you correctly point out the harsh facts, but try putting yourself in the position of a relative. Maybe then, you will undertsand that no matter how futile you think your search may be, it IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT in the eyes of those left behind.
Kind regards to you and all the SAR teams
Kind regards
TSM
So then TSM - the question is 'would you rather rescue someones pet from the bottom of a cliff or search at sea for hours for someone who cannot possibly have survived because they had no flotation or survival equipment and they have been missing for several hours?' That is the context my remarks, however flippant, were made and if you answer 'pet' then according to your logic that makes you as bad as me - if you answer person in the water then you must have been an exceptionally decicated and professional winchman and I take my hat off to you.
BTW - I don't have a downer on the SH force, quite the opposite in fact, but it's not going to stop me taking the pi** when the opportunity arises 'no quarter given nor expected'
BTW - I don't have a downer on the SH force, quite the opposite in fact, but it's not going to stop me taking the pi** when the opportunity arises 'no quarter given nor expected'
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I feel I must step in to say that I do understand what Crab meant by his comment; I don't think it was actually meant in an offensive tone.
I was a SARBOY in East Asia in the 1990s and I do know what it feels like to search for folks who have nil chance of survival. A life saved is still a life saved, I don't think Crab meant that dogs were more important than folks
He's still a SARBOY W*NK*R though and obviously just jealous he never made it to a proper Tiger Squadron.
I was a SARBOY in East Asia in the 1990s and I do know what it feels like to search for folks who have nil chance of survival. A life saved is still a life saved, I don't think Crab meant that dogs were more important than folks
He's still a SARBOY W*NK*R though and obviously just jealous he never made it to a proper Tiger Squadron.
Thanks Shy - you really know how to make a guy feel wanted.......
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Crab,
If you are asking for my own opinion, then it will always be a person, every time. A pet is just that - a pet! And unless you (not you personaly) are some kind of 'animal rights' guru, then I genuingly cannot see any other priority.
I like to think I was dedicated and professional yes, but I do appreciate the nause of spending hours and hours on futile searches for someone, when there is, as you rightly point out, absolutely no way they could have survived. But it shouldn'y ever matter. They are still someones son, father, mother, child etc and we owe it to them to do all we can, even body recovery.
The fact is, I don't think I could ever put an animal before a human, and even a dead human I think. Risking injury and (potentially) the lives of a helicopter crew is never justified for a dog who has fallen off a cliff. The same cannot be said for a person I feel.
Anyway, if you are still serving as a SAR boy, then I take my hat off to you also. It was by far the best job I ever did, and I would have gladly still been doing it now. Alas, dodgy eyes, Arthur Itis et al all seemed to be against me!!
But don't ever stop taking the pi$$ out of those SH chaps!!
Kind regards
TSM
'Caruthers, is it time for my early morning tipple yet??'
If you are asking for my own opinion, then it will always be a person, every time. A pet is just that - a pet! And unless you (not you personaly) are some kind of 'animal rights' guru, then I genuingly cannot see any other priority.
I like to think I was dedicated and professional yes, but I do appreciate the nause of spending hours and hours on futile searches for someone, when there is, as you rightly point out, absolutely no way they could have survived. But it shouldn'y ever matter. They are still someones son, father, mother, child etc and we owe it to them to do all we can, even body recovery.
The fact is, I don't think I could ever put an animal before a human, and even a dead human I think. Risking injury and (potentially) the lives of a helicopter crew is never justified for a dog who has fallen off a cliff. The same cannot be said for a person I feel.
Anyway, if you are still serving as a SAR boy, then I take my hat off to you also. It was by far the best job I ever did, and I would have gladly still been doing it now. Alas, dodgy eyes, Arthur Itis et al all seemed to be against me!!
But don't ever stop taking the pi$$ out of those SH chaps!!
Kind regards
TSM
'Caruthers, is it time for my early morning tipple yet??'
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Teeteringhead,
If you don't stop all this, I'll have caruthers come round and box your ears my lad!!!
You all take care out there!
Kind regards
TSM
'Caruthers, get your boxing gloves on old boy!'
If you don't stop all this, I'll have caruthers come round and box your ears my lad!!!
You all take care out there!
Kind regards
TSM
'Caruthers, get your boxing gloves on old boy!'
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I remember 230 (FB) Sqn well and have memories of a highly professional outfit. Although I do think the tiger design on the Puma in the early nineties was better. Had a black nose and a fantastic tiger painted on it. Anyone got a copy? Sorry have they dropped the Flying Boat bit?
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Chas did 3 nose panels, the last one being this: c2003
The black and yellow cab has Leslies nose panel on it. Only this and Chas` last one remain in 230 Sqns hands, as 18 Sqn borrowed one and the other is rumoured to have been aquired by Chips the Silver Fox in the early 90s.
The black and yellow cab has Leslies nose panel on it. Only this and Chas` last one remain in 230 Sqns hands, as 18 Sqn borrowed one and the other is rumoured to have been aquired by Chips the Silver Fox in the early 90s.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I wonder if this a/c would be welcomed.
SS
SS
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 3rd Jun 2005 at 18:11.
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Sorry to have to break it to you, Sid, but you seem to have posted two pictures of the first aid kit. 
Edit: So how come I can't see any pics? What format are they, please?
Aah, That's better! The white boxes with red crosses (FAKs) have been replaced by a Gazzle shaped tiger
The RSPCA might have sumfink to say about keeping a tiger on a roof rack on a helicopter though.
Edit: So how come I can't see any pics? What format are they, please?
Aah, That's better! The white boxes with red crosses (FAKs) have been replaced by a Gazzle shaped tiger
The RSPCA might have sumfink to say about keeping a tiger on a roof rack on a helicopter though.
Last edited by ShyTorque; 4th Jun 2005 at 12:14.
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SilsoeSid wibbled:
"I wonder if this a/c would be welcomed."
Indeed it was, for that aircraft was the official escort to the Czech Hind helicopters into French airspace for the 2003 Tiger Meet at Cambrai-Northern France.
It paint job was totally unauthorised, in fact permission was asked - refused - and they painted it anyway. Such high spirits from our french bretheren rarely seen if ever in the 21st century Royal Air Force.
"I wonder if this a/c would be welcomed."
Indeed it was, for that aircraft was the official escort to the Czech Hind helicopters into French airspace for the 2003 Tiger Meet at Cambrai-Northern France.
It paint job was totally unauthorised, in fact permission was asked - refused - and they painted it anyway. Such high spirits from our french bretheren rarely seen if ever in the 21st century Royal Air Force.
