Things that I Love...
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grammar shmamar. point proven. 
I did get in though... just making some observations on my way through.
As for point 6... I am making no assumptions here. Not all the guys and girls I met along the way had tried drugs... but all their answers were 'no'
And as for Uni, it is the life experience, as much as the educational that is important. The 18-year-old DE boys and girls have a lot to learn, which the military isn't necessarily best suited to teach.
I did get in though... just making some observations on my way through.
As for point 6... I am making no assumptions here. Not all the guys and girls I met along the way had tried drugs... but all their answers were 'no'
And as for Uni, it is the life experience, as much as the educational that is important. The 18-year-old DE boys and girls have a lot to learn, which the military isn't necessarily best suited to teach.
‘an RAF officer is an officer first and pilot second’
Adapting a well-known quote I reckon that integrity is the one quality that guarantees all others. You can teach piloting skills but you can't teach integrity.
Adapting a well-known quote I reckon that integrity is the one quality that guarantees all others. You can teach piloting skills but you can't teach integrity.
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And as for Uni, it is the life experience, as much as the educational that is important. The 18-year-old DE boys and girls have a lot to learn, which the military isn't necessarily best suited to teach.
NFS
Gentleman Aviator
integrity is the one quality that guarantees all others
Once you can convincingly fake integrity and honesty - you've really got it made!
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stupidous
Strewth - you really asked for that lot! Consider - don't you think your initial post came across as a tad narrow-minded and therefore unlikely to get "serious" responses to the questions you posed?
Problem we have got with you sport is:
a. R U just a wind-up merchant?
b. R U serious?
c. From where / what are you coming from?
Solution is:
a. When did you join the RAF (full time)?
b. As what?
c. What do you fly?
d. As what?
e. What did you want to be doing?
Read and digest some of the answers you got. The "English" corrections you REALLY asked for. Some of the other "pearls" should give you sage words to ponder as you continue to learn every day of your career
Strewth - you really asked for that lot! Consider - don't you think your initial post came across as a tad narrow-minded and therefore unlikely to get "serious" responses to the questions you posed?
Problem we have got with you sport is:
a. R U just a wind-up merchant?
b. R U serious?
c. From where / what are you coming from?
Solution is:
a. When did you join the RAF (full time)?
b. As what?
c. What do you fly?
d. As what?
e. What did you want to be doing?
Read and digest some of the answers you got. The "English" corrections you REALLY asked for. Some of the other "pearls" should give you sage words to ponder as you continue to learn every day of your career
Red On, Green On
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And as for Uni, it is the life experience, as much as the educational that is important. The 18-year-old DE boys and girls have a lot to learn, which the military isn't necessarily best suited to teach.
My father had been very much involved (in the MOD) with the 82 South Atlantic skirmish, as he was the last Captain of Endurance ashore. In the wash-up it was discovered that a lot of the dashing, good at writing joined up, graduate officers had not performed that well when the battle was raging, while those who were perceived as dull/ordinary had been able to keep on the task despite the pressure.
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Well, seeing as you haven't got yourself all the way through training yet, I may yet get to welcome you to the Supply Branch yet!
Step closer, oh young grad demigod. I have a McDonalds 5 Star certificate I'd like to insert somewhere painful, along with my Degree from the University of Life - a place that exists outside the Uni bar.
Oh - the RAF Regt Instructors at Cranwell love to be kept in their place. Crack on.
Step closer, oh young grad demigod. I have a McDonalds 5 Star certificate I'd like to insert somewhere painful, along with my Degree from the University of Life - a place that exists outside the Uni bar.
Oh - the RAF Regt Instructors at Cranwell love to be kept in their place.
Crack on.
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jeez i get pi**ed off when idiots start implying that you have to have gone to uni to be any good at anything, and that all officers should come from uni because they have better "life skills". BOLLOXS!!! sure we need uni grads, but equally we need young DE guys, each bring something different to the party through their experiences and perspectives. what we dont need are arrogant fools who think that they are better than anyone else because of their background, especially when they havent proved themselves!
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J , wise words.
stupidous: take heed
You may be getting an inkling into why we strive to attract the "kinds" of people we do. There is a lot more to being an effective member of this team than you appear to grasp at the moment. We will take almost any one!!!!
We only tend to keep the ones that make the whole greater than the sum of the individual parts (to misquote someone!).
stupidous: take heed
You may be getting an inkling into why we strive to attract the "kinds" of people we do. There is a lot more to being an effective member of this team than you appear to grasp at the moment. We will take almost any one!!!!
We only tend to keep the ones that make the whole greater than the sum of the individual parts (to misquote someone!).
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stupido
You say: And as for Uni, it is the life experience, as much as the educational that is important. The 18-year-old DE boys and girls have a lot to learn, which the military isn't necessarily best suited to teach.
I have a moment or 2 on my hands for a little light reading; perhaps you would care to publish a list of features in this 'life experience' thing that you feel that the RAF needs so much. Bear in mind that many of us here will have either been to uni or put kids through uni, or we might even have done both. Please exclude such desirable qualities as learning how to:
a. Sleep for 18 hours a day.
b. Turn a perfectly pleasant terraced house into a stinking sh*thole within moments of moving in.
c. Steal your colleagues' food because you've run out of money again.
d. Same re booze.
e. Nick your colleagues' CDs and not return them until they are scratched to b*ggery.
f. Refuse to pay your share of the phone bill 'cos I was only on the phone for 2 minutes last month'.
g. Fail to establish a sensible balance between work and play.
h. Have 6 months of holidays per annum and still hand in your projects late.
i. Take drugs.
j. Cram a 12 month course on psychcr*p into a full 3 years.
k. Expect to be offered a highly-paid job immediately on leaving uni as you now have a degree.
I'm ready so start compiling.
You say: And as for Uni, it is the life experience, as much as the educational that is important. The 18-year-old DE boys and girls have a lot to learn, which the military isn't necessarily best suited to teach.
I have a moment or 2 on my hands for a little light reading; perhaps you would care to publish a list of features in this 'life experience' thing that you feel that the RAF needs so much. Bear in mind that many of us here will have either been to uni or put kids through uni, or we might even have done both. Please exclude such desirable qualities as learning how to:
a. Sleep for 18 hours a day.
b. Turn a perfectly pleasant terraced house into a stinking sh*thole within moments of moving in.
c. Steal your colleagues' food because you've run out of money again.
d. Same re booze.
e. Nick your colleagues' CDs and not return them until they are scratched to b*ggery.
f. Refuse to pay your share of the phone bill 'cos I was only on the phone for 2 minutes last month'.
g. Fail to establish a sensible balance between work and play.
h. Have 6 months of holidays per annum and still hand in your projects late.
i. Take drugs.
j. Cram a 12 month course on psychcr*p into a full 3 years.
k. Expect to be offered a highly-paid job immediately on leaving uni as you now have a degree.
I'm ready so start compiling.
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As an 18 year old DE I had the following "Life Experiences" with the RAF:
Cheap Beer
Cheap cars
Cheap petrol
Cheap travel
LOA (which increased my salary by 35%)
Friendly ladies
Camaraderie & teamwork
Learning and developing a skill-set that was actually of some use
Earning a salary and contributing towards the country and its economy.
etc.
etc.
Don't come all high and mighty on this forum about university life experiences. I, like many, have done bl**dy well thank you very much, despite the lack of a 'proper' education.
Now, please go away, put on some white tapes, and actually learn what the RAF is all about.
Cheap Beer
Cheap cars
Cheap petrol
Cheap travel
LOA (which increased my salary by 35%)
Friendly ladies
Camaraderie & teamwork
Learning and developing a skill-set that was actually of some use
Earning a salary and contributing towards the country and its economy.
etc.
etc.
Don't come all high and mighty on this forum about university life experiences. I, like many, have done bl**dy well thank you very much, despite the lack of a 'proper' education.
Now, please go away, put on some white tapes, and actually learn what the RAF is all about.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I walked into the staff coffee bar at ANS at Finningley and asked generally - any quantity surveyors here? I got one yes.
Later I wanted a very long masonry drill bit. Once again someone had one.
It was like the motley selection in a prisoner of war camp. Someone was good at something and you could get expert advice on practically anything under the Sun.
All DEs or all grads would just not have given that eclectic mix.
DEs are certainly seen as better prospects as aircrew and given equal apptitude scores - 17 yr old cf 22 yrs old - the 17 yr old will win hands down 5 years later.
Later I wanted a very long masonry drill bit. Once again someone had one.
It was like the motley selection in a prisoner of war camp. Someone was good at something and you could get expert advice on practically anything under the Sun.
All DEs or all grads would just not have given that eclectic mix.
DEs are certainly seen as better prospects as aircrew and given equal apptitude scores - 17 yr old cf 22 yrs old - the 17 yr old will win hands down 5 years later.
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Pontius Nav - was your sojourn to Finningley recent ?
I understand it's closed as a station but it's been years since I've been there. I left Blighty in 1990. It was there that the flying bug bit as a child and I had my first aeros ride as ATC cadet.
Sorry a bit off thread....
Cheers K
I understand it's closed as a station but it's been years since I've been there. I left Blighty in 1990. It was there that the flying bug bit as a child and I had my first aeros ride as ATC cadet.
Sorry a bit off thread....
Cheers K
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Stupidousman
A mate of mine going through flying training at the same time as me was 17 1/2. By the time he was 25 he was a QWI on a harrier squadron. Most green shielders are still kicking around IOT at 25. We had one guy who had done a degree in zoology (sp), was he any better than we DE's? I was equally as qualified to spot a crocodilapigamoose in york as he was. We had one guy who had done a four year degree course in Brewing (top course mind). His only secondary job at linton was to organise a course trip to a brewery. In 14 months he never actually managed it, a four year degree course in brewing and he could not literally organise a piss up in a brewery.
Everyones got their bit to offer so dont come out with this superiority bollox. Oh do you know the RAF are actively recruiting DE's now, not because they are mouldable, they will be offered in service degree courses. Its because it is only the DE that can reach the right rank at a young enough age to hit the brackets to become CAS. A 29 year old first tourist pilot cannot do that.
You are noticed by your lack of replies to anyone on this thread.
A mate of mine going through flying training at the same time as me was 17 1/2. By the time he was 25 he was a QWI on a harrier squadron. Most green shielders are still kicking around IOT at 25. We had one guy who had done a degree in zoology (sp), was he any better than we DE's? I was equally as qualified to spot a crocodilapigamoose in york as he was. We had one guy who had done a four year degree course in Brewing (top course mind). His only secondary job at linton was to organise a course trip to a brewery. In 14 months he never actually managed it, a four year degree course in brewing and he could not literally organise a piss up in a brewery.
Everyones got their bit to offer so dont come out with this superiority bollox. Oh do you know the RAF are actively recruiting DE's now, not because they are mouldable, they will be offered in service degree courses. Its because it is only the DE that can reach the right rank at a young enough age to hit the brackets to become CAS. A 29 year old first tourist pilot cannot do that.
You are noticed by your lack of replies to anyone on this thread.
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I'm probably opening a huge can of worms, but....
I can't quite see what all the fuss is about stupendousman's post. Now obviously if you have a chip on your shoulder about graduates then you can probably read it in a particular way and take huge offence, but I'm not sure that was his point.
As one of the much-vilified-on-this-thread graduate filth, I can see compelling reasons for recruiting a balanced mix of DE and graduates. Surely the whole point of the RAF's lengthy selection procedure is to weed out the best of both worlds?
Tigs - not all of us have a burning passion to be CAS, so there's probably still room for some graduates in the system. Your QWI mate is a fine chap and definitely going places, but I wouldn't swap places with him and give up all the great times I had in my early 20s.
Zoom, sir, can you seriously not think of anything good about a graduate? Do you actually believe that every single one of the tens of thousands of students in the country at any time all fit the mould of your very tired stereotype? Does your only experience of student life come from watching the Young Ones or reading Viz? Here are a couple of ideas to get you started:
Almost all undergrads take a gap year these days and travel the world. A gap year doesn't necessarily mean smoking dope on the beach in Thailand. Some of my friends did things such as - living and working as a farmer in China for a year and becoming fluent in Cantonese, working in French or German ski resorts and becoming conversationally fluent in one of our European allies' languages, building a school in Namibia, redecorating a Romanian prison to turn it into an orphanage and helping to set the whole thing up, Camp America counsellors etc. I put it to you that an 18/19 year old that shows that sort of initiative, independence, self-confidence and yes, teamwork too, has something to offer the RAF.
A graduate will also have picked up a few other 'life skills' along the way. Many will have, as you alluded to, experienced some financial difficulties. The majority will have worked through them - either by employing some strange innovative money-saving schemes, or (this may shatter your illusions) by getting a job. I could list a whole raft of the daft buzz-words of management speak that the world, including the RAF, seem to love talking about too: time-management, inter-personal skills, writing skills, IT skills etc etc. I certainly learned a lot about each of them while I was at university. The things I picked up at university were things I didn't have to be taught by the RAF, and probably saved me from a couple of flight commander interviews. You can also be pretty sure that a graduate applicant has had a couple of years to make a well-balanced decision as to his/her career path too, so you're likely to get a well-motivated recruit.
I'm not trying to say that graduates are better than DE recruits at all. As I said at the beginning, I believe there's a place for both at Cranwell and each has pros and cons. But the implication that anyone who went to university spent 3 years smoking drugs, getting drunk, committing petty crime and staying in bed all day, and therefore has nothing to offer the RAF, is just ridiculous.
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
I can't quite see what all the fuss is about stupendousman's post. Now obviously if you have a chip on your shoulder about graduates then you can probably read it in a particular way and take huge offence, but I'm not sure that was his point.
As one of the much-vilified-on-this-thread graduate filth, I can see compelling reasons for recruiting a balanced mix of DE and graduates. Surely the whole point of the RAF's lengthy selection procedure is to weed out the best of both worlds?
Tigs - not all of us have a burning passion to be CAS, so there's probably still room for some graduates in the system. Your QWI mate is a fine chap and definitely going places, but I wouldn't swap places with him and give up all the great times I had in my early 20s.
Zoom, sir, can you seriously not think of anything good about a graduate? Do you actually believe that every single one of the tens of thousands of students in the country at any time all fit the mould of your very tired stereotype? Does your only experience of student life come from watching the Young Ones or reading Viz? Here are a couple of ideas to get you started:
Almost all undergrads take a gap year these days and travel the world. A gap year doesn't necessarily mean smoking dope on the beach in Thailand. Some of my friends did things such as - living and working as a farmer in China for a year and becoming fluent in Cantonese, working in French or German ski resorts and becoming conversationally fluent in one of our European allies' languages, building a school in Namibia, redecorating a Romanian prison to turn it into an orphanage and helping to set the whole thing up, Camp America counsellors etc. I put it to you that an 18/19 year old that shows that sort of initiative, independence, self-confidence and yes, teamwork too, has something to offer the RAF.
A graduate will also have picked up a few other 'life skills' along the way. Many will have, as you alluded to, experienced some financial difficulties. The majority will have worked through them - either by employing some strange innovative money-saving schemes, or (this may shatter your illusions) by getting a job. I could list a whole raft of the daft buzz-words of management speak that the world, including the RAF, seem to love talking about too: time-management, inter-personal skills, writing skills, IT skills etc etc. I certainly learned a lot about each of them while I was at university. The things I picked up at university were things I didn't have to be taught by the RAF, and probably saved me from a couple of flight commander interviews. You can also be pretty sure that a graduate applicant has had a couple of years to make a well-balanced decision as to his/her career path too, so you're likely to get a well-motivated recruit.
I'm not trying to say that graduates are better than DE recruits at all. As I said at the beginning, I believe there's a place for both at Cranwell and each has pros and cons. But the implication that anyone who went to university spent 3 years smoking drugs, getting drunk, committing petty crime and staying in bed all day, and therefore has nothing to offer the RAF, is just ridiculous.
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly