RN logo's on Flying Kit
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,145
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From: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Look carefully at flying pongos and you will notice an eagle on the arm (can't remember which). Proudly worn I believe.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,968
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From: Devon
In the eyes of Joe Public/certain parts of the media....
If you fly/maintain/work with aircraft of any sort you must be RAF.
If you wear CS95, you must be Army.
If you go to sea...........not interested.
All to do with ignorance and apthy, I fear - something discussed here.
If the Fleet Air Arm enjoyed greater public awareness and understanding, would it have made a difference to the Sea Harrier issue/debate?
If you fly/maintain/work with aircraft of any sort you must be RAF.
If you wear CS95, you must be Army.
If you go to sea...........not interested.
All to do with ignorance and apthy, I fear - something discussed here.
If the Fleet Air Arm enjoyed greater public awareness and understanding, would it have made a difference to the Sea Harrier issue/debate?
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 675
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From: Racedo blows goats
"If the Fleet Air Arm enjoyed greater public awareness and understanding, would it have made a difference to the Sea Harrier issue/debate?"
WEBF
Lately, unless you have been cloned, you are most of the debate. Good way of making it a sticky though.
WEBF
Lately, unless you have been cloned, you are most of the debate. Good way of making it a sticky though.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 71
From: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
[Devils Advocate mode on]
With all this 'jointery' and with the old purple creeping in does the Army and the Navy still need its own aircraft fleets?
Wouldn't it be better for the Army to concentrate on the land, the RN to concentrate on sailing boats and the RAF with flying planes?
The RAF have been flying Harrier's off RN boats for a while now and the RAF have been flying squaddies around for a lot longer. I'm surprised in these days of severe belt tightening that more civil servants aren't asking these sorts of questions. I know its been mentioned before but that was when there was less purple
Of course I'm just playing Devils Advocate on this one.
With all this 'jointery' and with the old purple creeping in does the Army and the Navy still need its own aircraft fleets?
Wouldn't it be better for the Army to concentrate on the land, the RN to concentrate on sailing boats and the RAF with flying planes?
The RAF have been flying Harrier's off RN boats for a while now and the RAF have been flying squaddies around for a lot longer. I'm surprised in these days of severe belt tightening that more civil servants aren't asking these sorts of questions. I know its been mentioned before but that was when there was less purple
Of course I'm just playing Devils Advocate on this one.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,650
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From: Falmouth
Bah
Hey, thats a good idea....introduce a directive into the regs before anyone has any say in the matter and then issue a badge (which doesn't fit on a standard arm without disappearing up yr armpit) and then if anyone objects to the complete and utter waste of money, you can argue that "its in the regulations".
..complete tosh...as a tax payer I want my money back. If the RN are wasting my hard earned money on rubbish like this then I surrender.
Having just spent the last 6 months mulling over LEAN and trying to find ways to make this establishment more efficient, I then discover that its totally irrelevant as the money we have saved by streamling our core business has been squandered on a badge....
come on the Si Clik....whats next? Bright Blue flying boots? how about we embroider the White ensign on our visor covers...or perhaps we could paint the dome red, white and blue.
..complete tosh...as a tax payer I want my money back. If the RN are wasting my hard earned money on rubbish like this then I surrender.
Having just spent the last 6 months mulling over LEAN and trying to find ways to make this establishment more efficient, I then discover that its totally irrelevant as the money we have saved by streamling our core business has been squandered on a badge....
come on the Si Clik....whats next? Bright Blue flying boots? how about we embroider the White ensign on our visor covers...or perhaps we could paint the dome red, white and blue.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: UK
VVHA, The Navy is clearly wasting tax payers money on YOU. If you do not understand the problems of recruiting then you need to get out more! Why should your opinion count? I did not know the military was a democracy!!
Got mine today ……. Not as bad as I guessed it would be, if it gets one new recruit they will pay for themselves, anyway it cant make us look any more stupid at airshows than our lousy fitting overalls already do!
Got mine today ……. Not as bad as I guessed it would be, if it gets one new recruit they will pay for themselves, anyway it cant make us look any more stupid at airshows than our lousy fitting overalls already do!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,650
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From: Falmouth
Yep, That'll do the trick. I can see it now. As soon as a spotty nosed grad spots the badge wrapped around a blokes arm and disappearing up his armpit, he'll be straight of the the recruiters and take along a bus load of his mates too.
No,no. what FOTR needs to do is like Tourist suggests.....
"Bin all the tree huggy, humanitarian aid, peacekeeping TV adverts and show lots of stuff being blown up, harriers/jsf flying low in a hooligan manner, helo's flying lower and in an even more unjustifiably hooliganly manner, more stuff being blown up, people skydiving, windsurfing etc, more explosions, couple of bits of SAR god storm video, lots of people looking dashing at the summer ball with cute fluff on their arm, big finale of more sh1t being blown up.
Recruitment rockets, Tourist gets a Herbert Lott, everybody happy, job done".....
No,no. what FOTR needs to do is like Tourist suggests.....
"Bin all the tree huggy, humanitarian aid, peacekeeping TV adverts and show lots of stuff being blown up, harriers/jsf flying low in a hooligan manner, helo's flying lower and in an even more unjustifiably hooliganly manner, more stuff being blown up, people skydiving, windsurfing etc, more explosions, couple of bits of SAR god storm video, lots of people looking dashing at the summer ball with cute fluff on their arm, big finale of more sh1t being blown up.
Recruitment rockets, Tourist gets a Herbert Lott, everybody happy, job done".....
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: near to the bar
If recruiting is such a problem and we all know it is, (not just with the FAA) why not get the insurers/policy boys at MOD to allow school visits in aircraft without the fear of parliamentary questions or ridiculously high premiums.
Why not have a flight or a rolling commitment shared by squadrons to do the summer fetes/county shows, drop off the marines parachuting team and coordinate with local sea cadets/RNR units and recruiting offices.
Lets reinstate DNR Flight and do the job properly. All these badges on overalls will merely make us look like bl**dy ambulancemen on Holby City!
Whilst I am on the recruiting theme, we could focus the sterling efforts of the recruiters more on the potential and needs of the inividual rather than have them persuade enthusiastic youngsters sign up for an unsuitable career merely to meet a performance target. A number of friends' teenagers have been given advice which, when investigatd on the 'inside', was quite inappropriate to their aspirations and abilities. The fall out from these errors is a far bigger negative than can be corrected by wearing badges and logos.
Why not have a flight or a rolling commitment shared by squadrons to do the summer fetes/county shows, drop off the marines parachuting team and coordinate with local sea cadets/RNR units and recruiting offices.
Lets reinstate DNR Flight and do the job properly. All these badges on overalls will merely make us look like bl**dy ambulancemen on Holby City!
Whilst I am on the recruiting theme, we could focus the sterling efforts of the recruiters more on the potential and needs of the inividual rather than have them persuade enthusiastic youngsters sign up for an unsuitable career merely to meet a performance target. A number of friends' teenagers have been given advice which, when investigatd on the 'inside', was quite inappropriate to their aspirations and abilities. The fall out from these errors is a far bigger negative than can be corrected by wearing badges and logos.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 71
From: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Never, ever, trust someone who feels the need to tell you, he's playing devil's advocate, it normally means he is being a c#ck.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
What exactly is this badge?
Confusion of uniform by the unwashed genpub is fairly routine; back in the days of the awful Thunderbird jacket I was mistaken for a railway employee. But the best I've seen was when a CAA chap with 4 gold rings turned up at the flying club to do some check ride or other - the RAF Movers who inhabit the hangar went into low earth orbit as they thought he was a senior customs officer about to lead a rummage team through their building!
Confusion of uniform by the unwashed genpub is fairly routine; back in the days of the awful Thunderbird jacket I was mistaken for a railway employee. But the best I've seen was when a CAA chap with 4 gold rings turned up at the flying club to do some check ride or other - the RAF Movers who inhabit the hangar went into low earth orbit as they thought he was a senior customs officer about to lead a rummage team through their building!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 39
From: East Sussex
It's a sad sad day when certain Navy pilots on this thread suggest that the Navy's recruitment and retention problems will be solved by this badge!
And as for calling the Bag Boss to snitch..... words fail me!
And as for calling the Bag Boss to snitch..... words fail me!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: UK
The concept of a badge to promote the FLEET AIR ARM is reasonable. The badge may have been given a better reception if the Boys had been given a chance to design one.
A comp with a £500 prize may have got the juices going.
To me a square badge on ovies looks c**p, especially when it looks like the cheap tack we give away on PR stalls.
Surely we want to get the message that there is a Fleet Air Arm in the RN and not that the RN exists. (I'm sure most people know that)
A comp with a £500 prize may have got the juices going.
To me a square badge on ovies looks c**p, especially when it looks like the cheap tack we give away on PR stalls.
Surely we want to get the message that there is a Fleet Air Arm in the RN and not that the RN exists. (I'm sure most people know that)
Last edited by 360Auto; 26th April 2005 at 09:05.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,650
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From: Falmouth
Exactly. Its cheap, tacky and extremely unprofessional. A quick glance around the mess at lunch today and I noticed.......NONE....but most bins are full of them. However, most people seem to be proudly wearing a white ensign on their shoulders....
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10
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From: iow
This is a wind up, right?
I mean. Hoping to raise the public profile of the RN/FAA by giving the aircrew another badge to wear?
Netx you'll be telling us there's an "introduce a friend and you'll get 10 extra flying hours" bonus scheme.
I mean. Hoping to raise the public profile of the RN/FAA by giving the aircrew another badge to wear?
Netx you'll be telling us there's an "introduce a friend and you'll get 10 extra flying hours" bonus scheme.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
From: Anywhere there's ships and aircraft available
Chaps (because you all clearly are).
First I apologise for losing rag and no phone calls or e-mails made.
Here's a few facts (drawn by market research done over the last couple of months):
80% of the public do not know the RN operate aircraft.
The reason for the badges is straightforward and commonsense. If you live anywhere more than 20 miles from Culdrose or Yeovilton your chances of knowing what rank insignia on uniform means is zip. So pictures on TV or in papers of RN crews in green ovies says RAF to most. How do we get over this ? (and its not just a recruiting issue). Do we invent some new trendy badge that has little public recall value (like flags) or do we use the now universal RN logo. This was a striaghtforward exercise that cost less than a months flying pay, is simple and in some areas has been readily accepted. It was not my idea but made sense when proferred.
Showing the proverble kit blowing up pictures does little to inspire the kids of today especially when they tend to be risk averse and prepared to drop everything when it all gets too tough. We need high calibre people and compete with a lot of other organisations after the same skill sets.
We in the RN have to apprecaite that we languish behind the other two services in the desire of young people to do the job. It is in the background and with Air Stations situated to the West of Bristol get little coverage and going to sea does not do it for most.
On the point of schools visits if you ring me (and those in the know know) I will furnish you with a letter to say your visit is DNR sponsored and get the local careers office to coordinate. Your insurance worries are then over.
VVC has a good point about DNR flight and maybe it will return in some form.
Overall I want those in the FAA to go out and promote the job for us. This is the best way to do it and research proves it. Adverts are fine but kids want the truth from those doing the job. Having spoken to loads at length, they are generally impressed but most wish they'd known about the FAA a lot earlier.
rafloo thanks for starting the thread. I think the more we discuss recruiting the more the message hits home that we are all involved and it is not just up to those in DNR (where there is only one active aircrew recruiter).
First I apologise for losing rag and no phone calls or e-mails made.
Here's a few facts (drawn by market research done over the last couple of months):
80% of the public do not know the RN operate aircraft.
The reason for the badges is straightforward and commonsense. If you live anywhere more than 20 miles from Culdrose or Yeovilton your chances of knowing what rank insignia on uniform means is zip. So pictures on TV or in papers of RN crews in green ovies says RAF to most. How do we get over this ? (and its not just a recruiting issue). Do we invent some new trendy badge that has little public recall value (like flags) or do we use the now universal RN logo. This was a striaghtforward exercise that cost less than a months flying pay, is simple and in some areas has been readily accepted. It was not my idea but made sense when proferred.
Showing the proverble kit blowing up pictures does little to inspire the kids of today especially when they tend to be risk averse and prepared to drop everything when it all gets too tough. We need high calibre people and compete with a lot of other organisations after the same skill sets.
We in the RN have to apprecaite that we languish behind the other two services in the desire of young people to do the job. It is in the background and with Air Stations situated to the West of Bristol get little coverage and going to sea does not do it for most.
On the point of schools visits if you ring me (and those in the know know) I will furnish you with a letter to say your visit is DNR sponsored and get the local careers office to coordinate. Your insurance worries are then over.
VVC has a good point about DNR flight and maybe it will return in some form.
Overall I want those in the FAA to go out and promote the job for us. This is the best way to do it and research proves it. Adverts are fine but kids want the truth from those doing the job. Having spoken to loads at length, they are generally impressed but most wish they'd known about the FAA a lot earlier.
rafloo thanks for starting the thread. I think the more we discuss recruiting the more the message hits home that we are all involved and it is not just up to those in DNR (where there is only one active aircrew recruiter).