RN Aircrew- Rejected!!
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Pontius,
The RN is now exactly the same.
The reason we have insisted on applicants passing for both is that this group of people have a much better chance of making it to Fast Jet training. Additionally they have much more capacity to deal with ever more complex aircraft.
Just because you have a shortage does NOT mean standards will be lowered as this inevitably leads to higher training wastage.
For Tourist if you can't prove you can be good officer material both at AIB and BRNC you won't get in.
The RN is now exactly the same.
The reason we have insisted on applicants passing for both is that this group of people have a much better chance of making it to Fast Jet training. Additionally they have much more capacity to deal with ever more complex aircraft.
Just because you have a shortage does NOT mean standards will be lowered as this inevitably leads to higher training wastage.
For Tourist if you can't prove you can be good officer material both at AIB and BRNC you won't get in.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
SI Clik, thank you. My source confirms that the RAF P & N tests are unrelated. True a pass in both shows a flow rate training risk and a P/F shows a higher risk.
Provided there are insufficient P/P candidates then I think the system would accept a P pass and an N fail into training but, as I said earlier, the probablity of a further career after failing P trg would be remote and aircrew remote to vanishing point.
Bottom line though is nothing ventured nothing gained and the RN Observer aptitude tests are quite different from the RAF.
Provided there are insufficient P/P candidates then I think the system would accept a P pass and an N fail into training but, as I said earlier, the probablity of a further career after failing P trg would be remote and aircrew remote to vanishing point.
Bottom line though is nothing ventured nothing gained and the RN Observer aptitude tests are quite different from the RAF.
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come-on guys, take the good with the bad and YOU decide the course of action. Careful of 'biting' at a reply that you consider negative on the thread, If you bite as easily to criticism when you are a Mil Pilot (or aircrew), you will not last long. Whether you like the comments or not, take note of them and self-filter the BS. Deep down, there is often a point to all replies to topics like these, and emotions will get you nowhere.
By the Way. Good Luck. I initially became a Nav(25 yrs ago I might add) -having failed Pilot selection. I too told them to 'stick it!', but was convinced to change my mind, and was lucky enough afterwards to somehow re-apply once 'in' and became a FJ pilot 6 years later.
My point is:
Never Give UP!!!
By the Way. Good Luck. I initially became a Nav(25 yrs ago I might add) -having failed Pilot selection. I too told them to 'stick it!', but was convinced to change my mind, and was lucky enough afterwards to somehow re-apply once 'in' and became a FJ pilot 6 years later.
My point is:
Never Give UP!!!
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The average age on my flight upon entry at BRNC was 25...........go figure.
Well at least the standard of people we get under these new recruiting proceedures is better, oh no it isnt is it. Why are we insisting that you have to be fast jet capable from apptitudes, when we are now so desperate that even the observers now get a go at pilot grading. Do you have to pass pilot to be a observer? if not, that seems to be the route to go for. Pass observer aptitude only, join up, do pilot grading, pass become pilot!
Well at least the standard of people we get under these new recruiting proceedures is better, oh no it isnt is it. Why are we insisting that you have to be fast jet capable from apptitudes, when we are now so desperate that even the observers now get a go at pilot grading. Do you have to pass pilot to be a observer? if not, that seems to be the route to go for. Pass observer aptitude only, join up, do pilot grading, pass become pilot!
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My point was that IF you were to slip through the net then you would be joining a Flying training system which would last about 3 years. During which...every day, you would be assessed, tested, questioned...looked at with a fine tooth comb...every day....
You failed on day one. What chance you make it to day 850 ?
You failed on day one. What chance you make it to day 850 ?
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Im interested in why the brits activly seek such young ppl to fly. From what i have heard the ADF tried that a few yrs ago and found that the maturity levels of the final line pilots to be very low and standards dropped a little.
Maybe it's just a yoof/demographic thing?!
It is not uncommen over here for there to be applicants on pilot course in their mid 30's and they still get thru.
EF2020: keep at it mate, pretty soon that brick wall will start to crumble
Maybe it's just a yoof/demographic thing?!
It is not uncommen over here for there to be applicants on pilot course in their mid 30's and they still get thru.
EF2020: keep at it mate, pretty soon that brick wall will start to crumble
Red On, Green On
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You failed on day one. What chance you make it to day 850 ?
One of the oldest guys on the course after me (way back in 78) was already a qualified barrister, and I think 25 - and he was streamed SHAR direct from EFT.
Last edited by airborne_artist; 14th Apr 2005 at 08:33.
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Im not concerned about age....one of my bestest buddies was well over 30 when he started BOC....and he came top....
But the difference with him was that he passed grading, he passed everything....
This bloke failed initial selection....what chance that he'll pass BRNC, BOC etc etc.... there is a reason why he failed and that is he is not good enough....the Flying Training selection process is tried and tested and works....
But the difference with him was that he passed grading, he passed everything....
This bloke failed initial selection....what chance that he'll pass BRNC, BOC etc etc.... there is a reason why he failed and that is he is not good enough....the Flying Training selection process is tried and tested and works....
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So only those that pass first time are "real" pilots then?
What about the applicants that fail, but work their butts of on the areas that need improvement then pass, that show drive and dedication to be in that seat? Dont they have just as much right, if not more to be on that course, in that flight seat, on that sortie?
What about the applicants that fail, but work their butts of on the areas that need improvement then pass, that show drive and dedication to be in that seat? Dont they have just as much right, if not more to be on that course, in that flight seat, on that sortie?
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No, No....im all for drive and determination...BUT this bloke failed the First sortie...in so much as the powers that be said he wasnt even good enough to START flying training...never mind finish it..
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I agree with VEC. It is very easy to pass the buck onto a later stage of training. You need to recruit people who have a very good chance of achieving the aims within a tight timescale.
Now, no disrepect to this guy, most people, if you give them enough time will reach the required standard. But, the problem is that they take so long to get there that they clog the training system up and take valuable hours away from other trainees only to get chopped at a very late stage. This is a waste of limited resources.
You have to have a suitable filter system, it has been in use for many years and is a trusted and tried method, however unfair it might seem to some individuals who fall foul.
EF 2020, I wish you the best of luck, I echoe the setiments of others, that you must keep pushing for what you want, don't just roll over and die.
Now, no disrepect to this guy, most people, if you give them enough time will reach the required standard. But, the problem is that they take so long to get there that they clog the training system up and take valuable hours away from other trainees only to get chopped at a very late stage. This is a waste of limited resources.
You have to have a suitable filter system, it has been in use for many years and is a trusted and tried method, however unfair it might seem to some individuals who fall foul.
EF 2020, I wish you the best of luck, I echoe the setiments of others, that you must keep pushing for what you want, don't just roll over and die.
Red On, Green On
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vecve
While it's true - 2020 has failed the current test standard, it's also true that there are plenty of guys out there who only passed pilot testing (at BH in my day) and went on to complete. The only guys to get chopped from my grading had passed P and O, yet several made wings with only a P pass.
While it's true - 2020 has failed the current test standard, it's also true that there are plenty of guys out there who only passed pilot testing (at BH in my day) and went on to complete. The only guys to get chopped from my grading had passed P and O, yet several made wings with only a P pass.
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That may have been the case many years ago but times change and aircraft change, become more complex and more techno....
The fact is that today you need to pass both P and O and if you don't achieve the required standard then yr out....
The fact is that today you need to pass both P and O and if you don't achieve the required standard then yr out....
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So the person who fails the first round of spec/apitude testing doesn't deserve to be there?
So only the people who pass everything first time are going to be pilots? Im sure there are loads of people out there to prove this wrong.
Yes it's good to have natural ability but isn't it just as good to work really your arse off the achieve what u want. It doesn't make u any less of a pilot/applicant/person, probably makes u more so.
So only the people who pass everything first time are going to be pilots? Im sure there are loads of people out there to prove this wrong.
Yes it's good to have natural ability but isn't it just as good to work really your arse off the achieve what u want. It doesn't make u any less of a pilot/applicant/person, probably makes u more so.
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Hey all,
Can see where everyone is coming from on the thread, and I know the Mil must have a standard which they must adhere to.......
But why when you are briefed about FATS at RAF Cranwell are you told that you are allowed two attempts at them??
Then to find out 1 year later like I did that u wouldn't be able to re-take them!!!!
You Lying Misleading Bas**rds comes to mind!!!!
When I asked why I wasn't to re-take them I was told my scores were abysmal....... and they probably were and I'll tell u why.
Because I was Sh*t Scared of sitting them. To think that this batch of tests to which, ability wise u can do little to prepare for is a major hurdle to overcome. Fitness Tests and Interviews u can really prepare for and have got just a good a chance to pass as anyone, but not FATS. It was only through asking and pestering and proving that I could overcome my nerves did the real me pass FATS Second time around.
My point is, Yes there has to be a standard that we must achieve and rightly so for Training Purposes/Costs. But if you're going to tell me that if I fail, I get another go..... I WANT ANOTHER GO!!!!!!
Can see where everyone is coming from on the thread, and I know the Mil must have a standard which they must adhere to.......
But why when you are briefed about FATS at RAF Cranwell are you told that you are allowed two attempts at them??
Then to find out 1 year later like I did that u wouldn't be able to re-take them!!!!
You Lying Misleading Bas**rds comes to mind!!!!
When I asked why I wasn't to re-take them I was told my scores were abysmal....... and they probably were and I'll tell u why.
Because I was Sh*t Scared of sitting them. To think that this batch of tests to which, ability wise u can do little to prepare for is a major hurdle to overcome. Fitness Tests and Interviews u can really prepare for and have got just a good a chance to pass as anyone, but not FATS. It was only through asking and pestering and proving that I could overcome my nerves did the real me pass FATS Second time around.
My point is, Yes there has to be a standard that we must achieve and rightly so for Training Purposes/Costs. But if you're going to tell me that if I fail, I get another go..... I WANT ANOTHER GO!!!!!!
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vecvechookattack
I'm sorry mate- but I did not "Fail"- I passed pilot with a good scores and ATC but marginally failed Observer- and also, in regards to having to take crtitcism, I can take criticism, but when the criticism is not constructive and purely negative, I think I have the right to respond............Think about it, I'm sure you have the ability to reason......
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Think you are all missing the original point of the post. This guy has "not" failed pilot aptitude, he failed observer. As the RAF doesn't have observers I don't see why this matters. Go to OASC and give it a go with the scores you already have mate.
And don't give up til you have a piece of paper in front of you from a very important person saying "sorry bloke but we're never going to let you in"
And then try again. If its what you want dont give up.
I-C
And don't give up til you have a piece of paper in front of you from a very important person saying "sorry bloke but we're never going to let you in"
And then try again. If its what you want dont give up.
I-C
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If anything, with future Pilots being more 'systems operators' than stick monkeys, it is only right that Observer aptitude is more important. This is why the RN insist on having passed both WELL!.
Typhoon/JSF Pilots don't need the awesome hand-eye co-ordination that Harrier pilots did - the a/c will fly itself. Instead, they will need to operate millions of systems at once which really maxes you out. I presume this is how pilot and obs aptitudes differ. Pilot being purely the hand-eye/reaction stuff, with Obs being all the horrible-all-at-once-things that make you sweat like MJ/calculations stuff.
To be blunt, if you can't do it in front of a PC in a small room, how can you expect to do it a 500 kts whilst trying to bomb someone with missiles coming at you?
Typhoon/JSF Pilots don't need the awesome hand-eye co-ordination that Harrier pilots did - the a/c will fly itself. Instead, they will need to operate millions of systems at once which really maxes you out. I presume this is how pilot and obs aptitudes differ. Pilot being purely the hand-eye/reaction stuff, with Obs being all the horrible-all-at-once-things that make you sweat like MJ/calculations stuff.
To be blunt, if you can't do it in front of a PC in a small room, how can you expect to do it a 500 kts whilst trying to bomb someone with missiles coming at you?
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Exactly....well said that man.
Now bugger off and let us (who did pass both aptitudes well and subsequently sailed through flying training) defend those who are not clever enough to answer a few tricky maths questions.
Now bugger off and let us (who did pass both aptitudes well and subsequently sailed through flying training) defend those who are not clever enough to answer a few tricky maths questions.
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There are more than one well known RN pilots who have never passed pilot aptitude at all, and many who got great aptitude scores that get chopped. That shows the quality of the system to me.