Grey F-117s
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Grey F-117s
Although i've known about this for some time, another forum posted a pic of it recently....
Just doesn't look right does it, painted grey. The USAF painted the F-117 grey to determine whether daytime operations were feasable.
Can't imagine a B-2A grey either (or gray as our over the pond ally likes to call it)
Is this the end of proper 'camo' schemes for NATO aircraft? Pretty much all of the front line aircraft in the UK, US and Europe are now Grey, apart from the Germans and our new partners of Eastern Europe!
Just doesn't look right does it, painted grey. The USAF painted the F-117 grey to determine whether daytime operations were feasable.
Can't imagine a B-2A grey either (or gray as our over the pond ally likes to call it)
Is this the end of proper 'camo' schemes for NATO aircraft? Pretty much all of the front line aircraft in the UK, US and Europe are now Grey, apart from the Germans and our new partners of Eastern Europe!
Back in the late 80's the colour scheme on our Gazelles and Lynx went from olive drab and matt black, to a pale grey and a lighter shade of green. Very effective camouflage, particularly down in the dirt, at about 2kms, where everything goes shades of grey
Pity that the effect was spoiled on the Lynx by the shiny aircraft sides - any Lynx crew will, I'm sure, empathise!
Pity that the effect was spoiled on the Lynx by the shiny aircraft sides - any Lynx crew will, I'm sure, empathise!
The gray is supposed to be the better color than black....the Air Force powers that be ordained that if you fly at night...you must fly in a black airplane....never mind the facts. The original paint scheme was a camo style with gray and green if I recall correctly. It is in the resource material on the early models prior to the first crash in California that blew the lid off the project. The Military channel referenced that and had video of the aircraft in that paint scheme.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Back in the 70s a civil servant who was interested in these things noticed how the RAF had several different, but identically styled, perhaps the most interesting was the brown and brown desert camouflage in gloss!
He got to wondering why different schemes were chosen and by whom. It turned out that 'it was a good idea' probably from some war-time airship and that following instructions everyone just got on and painted everything. The V-force hi-gloss cam/wht was intended for low level concealment and anti-flash. The rest, he found had no real scientific basis.
The first question he asked was why? Was it to hide them on the ground or in the air? The answer, perhaps surprisingly, was to hide them on the ground.
Remember this was just 3 years after the 6-day war and pre-HAS days. The upshot was that Lightnings in Germany went green and desert transports went pink. Or rather should have gone pink.
He had a trial mounted with a Herc at Kingsfield strip painted in pink. Part of the aircraft was concealed with camnet and it was parked at the side of the strip. The colour photo showed it was damn near invisible. Possibly not effective against PIs but to a passing FJ very effective.
Thereafter the RAF seemed to get a grip on its colour schemes. The Chocolate Bomber was one attempt but they got the NSN wrong. The Hemp Nimrods were very difficult to see on the ground at ISK especially in sodium lighting which was vogue at the time.
Eventually as the threat changed so did the colour schemes change to air-to-air camouflage and the near universal dull grey. BWOS did trials on an aircraft (Tornado model I think) with adaptive lighting. As you looked towards the flying aircraft it would 'block' light from the background. Their solution was to light the aircraft to match the background.
The corollary to this was the change of trainer aircraft from silver/dayglo red to gloss black.
This brings us back to the beginning. Black contrasts more than grey be it by day or by night. Cheers.
He got to wondering why different schemes were chosen and by whom. It turned out that 'it was a good idea' probably from some war-time airship and that following instructions everyone just got on and painted everything. The V-force hi-gloss cam/wht was intended for low level concealment and anti-flash. The rest, he found had no real scientific basis.
The first question he asked was why? Was it to hide them on the ground or in the air? The answer, perhaps surprisingly, was to hide them on the ground.
Remember this was just 3 years after the 6-day war and pre-HAS days. The upshot was that Lightnings in Germany went green and desert transports went pink. Or rather should have gone pink.
He had a trial mounted with a Herc at Kingsfield strip painted in pink. Part of the aircraft was concealed with camnet and it was parked at the side of the strip. The colour photo showed it was damn near invisible. Possibly not effective against PIs but to a passing FJ very effective.
Thereafter the RAF seemed to get a grip on its colour schemes. The Chocolate Bomber was one attempt but they got the NSN wrong. The Hemp Nimrods were very difficult to see on the ground at ISK especially in sodium lighting which was vogue at the time.
Eventually as the threat changed so did the colour schemes change to air-to-air camouflage and the near universal dull grey. BWOS did trials on an aircraft (Tornado model I think) with adaptive lighting. As you looked towards the flying aircraft it would 'block' light from the background. Their solution was to light the aircraft to match the background.
The corollary to this was the change of trainer aircraft from silver/dayglo red to gloss black.
This brings us back to the beginning. Black contrasts more than grey be it by day or by night. Cheers.
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Pontius Nav, I wonder if the civil servant that you refer to was a Mr Barley (Phil I think) working out of Farnborough, he of Barley Grey fame. a world class specialist on concealment tucked away in a tin shed. He was amazed that the paint finish on RAF aircraft was dictated by the requirements of the engineers rather than that of camouflage and was most insistant on things like the gloss content of the paint. An unsung hero in his way.
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Give the F/A-22 a few years to get its JDAMs hitting the right spot and the F-117 will be history. Painting it grey is just another way to try and justify such high costs for such a small fleet of unusually unique aircraft.
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"Can't imagine a B-2A grey either (or gray as our over the pond ally likes to call it)"
Errrmm hate to tell you this Razor but the B2 is already grey (gray) in colour - FS36118 Gunship Grey if I'm not mistaken!
Coat already on and going for the door....
Errrmm hate to tell you this Razor but the B2 is already grey (gray) in colour - FS36118 Gunship Grey if I'm not mistaken!
Coat already on and going for the door....
you know what i mean't 
Done some research...tips on why the color changes
Copies of some posts made at various web sites about the 117 paint changes....no idea on how credible any of these are....
1) (US Air Force ???) Air Force's Monthly ran a article on painting 2 aircraft grey to see if suitable for day operations. Which included testing with other aicraft.
2) Last year the USAF painted one F-117 with the same paint as the Raptor uses, because they wanted the plane to have the ability to strike during the day.
The F-117 is a 1st gen stealth, and its ageing, its not as "black" as it used to be, we have better stealth aircraft now so it doesn't have to be so secretive. So to make it more useful they want some that can fly in the daytime. As far as I know they have only painted one F-117 the color of the Raptor, but i would assume that they will paint some more.
But dont think this means that the B-2 will go grey, its much better then the nighthawk.
Actually I wouldn't be suprised if they are planning on painting the Raptor black, obviously not all but around 6 to 12 of them. So when we first attack a country we can use the state of art F-22, along with our bombers, so they are all black, and the F-22's could clear the skies at nightime.
3) My February issue of Flight Journal has a camo F-117 on the cover. Its sort of a grey/olive scheme, gray on the bottom but a camo pattern on top.
It says:
"The night-only F-117 is being evaluated for daytime operations, hence the light-gray color scheme."
It was taken near Holloman AFB in NM. Flown by the 53rd Test and Evaluation group.
4) According to Ben Rich [re: Lookheed Skunkworks fame], black is NOT the the ideal color for low observeble aircraft operating at night. Ben said, several years ago, the color scheme most difficult to detect visually is actually more of a 'pastel', but higher-ups didn't feel it proper to paint military aircraft in such ways. Can grey be consisered a pastel?
1) (US Air Force ???) Air Force's Monthly ran a article on painting 2 aircraft grey to see if suitable for day operations. Which included testing with other aicraft.
2) Last year the USAF painted one F-117 with the same paint as the Raptor uses, because they wanted the plane to have the ability to strike during the day.
The F-117 is a 1st gen stealth, and its ageing, its not as "black" as it used to be, we have better stealth aircraft now so it doesn't have to be so secretive. So to make it more useful they want some that can fly in the daytime. As far as I know they have only painted one F-117 the color of the Raptor, but i would assume that they will paint some more.
But dont think this means that the B-2 will go grey, its much better then the nighthawk.
Actually I wouldn't be suprised if they are planning on painting the Raptor black, obviously not all but around 6 to 12 of them. So when we first attack a country we can use the state of art F-22, along with our bombers, so they are all black, and the F-22's could clear the skies at nightime.
3) My February issue of Flight Journal has a camo F-117 on the cover. Its sort of a grey/olive scheme, gray on the bottom but a camo pattern on top.
It says:
"The night-only F-117 is being evaluated for daytime operations, hence the light-gray color scheme."
It was taken near Holloman AFB in NM. Flown by the 53rd Test and Evaluation group.
4) According to Ben Rich [re: Lookheed Skunkworks fame], black is NOT the the ideal color for low observeble aircraft operating at night. Ben said, several years ago, the color scheme most difficult to detect visually is actually more of a 'pastel', but higher-ups didn't feel it proper to paint military aircraft in such ways. Can grey be consisered a pastel?
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Years ago, the cam experts fitted a tank with lightbulbs and stuck it on the horizon in normal daylight. When the lights were switched on the thing damn near disappeared!
It seems that if a light system could be made lightweight enough to be fitted to aircraft, it could be a very effective daytime [obviously, stupid!] camouflage... Mind you, you'd have to remove the fuses before night ops - or handcuff the co-pilot's hands to his ankles!
After the first week of the first Red Flag, the American crews told the Vulcan operators that the standard European cam was still pretty effective, even against the desert background; but as soon as the white underside was exposed during maneouvre, the thing could be spotted from miles away. That caused the 'wrap round' camouflage scheme that appeared on the Vulcans soon after. Disruption of regular shape appears to be the most effective cam, as seen on some of the more whacky zig-zag paint jobs of a lot of warships during WWII.
It seems that if a light system could be made lightweight enough to be fitted to aircraft, it could be a very effective daytime [obviously, stupid!] camouflage... Mind you, you'd have to remove the fuses before night ops - or handcuff the co-pilot's hands to his ankles!
After the first week of the first Red Flag, the American crews told the Vulcan operators that the standard European cam was still pretty effective, even against the desert background; but as soon as the white underside was exposed during maneouvre, the thing could be spotted from miles away. That caused the 'wrap round' camouflage scheme that appeared on the Vulcans soon after. Disruption of regular shape appears to be the most effective cam, as seen on some of the more whacky zig-zag paint jobs of a lot of warships during WWII.
Perhaps the WW2 Spitfire recce mates knew the answer all along - PRU blue!
Barley was indeed an unsung expert - few people realised how many different shades of grey there were on a RAF Phantom. Not just because they were usually covered in soot, hydraulic oil and engine oil, but because there really were at least 3 diffrent greys on each F4.
The VC10 grey colour was initially known as 'John Major Grey'!
Perhaps they should get Lawrence Llewellyn-Bone to dream up a nice pastel scheme for the TypHoon? "I'm seeing eau-de-nil with highlights in cerise....?"
Perhaps the most useless camouflage ever was the old Ascot "2 shades of shiny $hit" used on the Whistling Tit, Andover and early Hercs?
Barley was indeed an unsung expert - few people realised how many different shades of grey there were on a RAF Phantom. Not just because they were usually covered in soot, hydraulic oil and engine oil, but because there really were at least 3 diffrent greys on each F4.
The VC10 grey colour was initially known as 'John Major Grey'!
Perhaps they should get Lawrence Llewellyn-Bone to dream up a nice pastel scheme for the TypHoon? "I'm seeing eau-de-nil with highlights in cerise....?"
Perhaps the most useless camouflage ever was the old Ascot "2 shades of shiny $hit" used on the Whistling Tit, Andover and early Hercs?
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I see that most of the Tonka GR4's have had their radome painted grey, however it is a different shade of grey to the fuselage. Why two tone? Must say, it does look better!
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Rumour I hear is that all the remaining F3s (yes both of them!) are to shed their 'Air Defence' Grey scheme in favour of the same overall dark grey scheme as used on the Tonkka GR4s.
Anyone know if this is true....
Still I suppose it makes the stock holding easier - only one type of paint ("Grey - Aircraft for the use of") required. Probably supplied by Humbrol too.....!!!
Anyone know if this is true....
Still I suppose it makes the stock holding easier - only one type of paint ("Grey - Aircraft for the use of") required. Probably supplied by Humbrol too.....!!!
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If my memory is correct, the USAF employed an aviation artist called Keith Ferris in the mid-70s to produce a "new" low-observable paint scheme and he came up with a three-tone grey that was much more effective than the multi-green scheme in current use on the F-4s and the light blue on the F-15s. The Ferris scheme included a false canopy outline on the underside of the fuselage but this was not particulary effective.
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A few years ago I did see a clip of film on cam schemes and in WW2 a big prob was the time it took for a Catalina to get (anywhere really!!) a good visual with any schnorkel before the sub panicked and went glug, glug, glug. They tried the method mentioned earlier and fitted lights along the leading edges, tied in with a sensor to measure ambient light and to adjust the intensity of those leading edge lights accordingly. Cor!!!! Worked a treat!
Also splinter camoulflage was used on many ships - not to make it invisible, but to create confusion as to which way it was actually travelling. Many leading artists of the day were involved in creating these schemes, which brings me on to this final question. Anyone fancy flying a Damien Hirst Tonka maybe? (hopefully not split down the middle though...)
Also splinter camoulflage was used on many ships - not to make it invisible, but to create confusion as to which way it was actually travelling. Many leading artists of the day were involved in creating these schemes, which brings me on to this final question. Anyone fancy flying a Damien Hirst Tonka maybe? (hopefully not split down the middle though...)
Still I suppose it makes the stock holding easier - only one type of paint ("Grey - Aircraft for the use of") required. Probably supplied by Humbrol too.....!!!
Well, my theory was that the ubiquitous 'pusser', so well-loved by the Senior Service, ordered vast quantities of 'Paint, Grey, War Canoes for the Painting with' back in the days when we had large numbers of jolly splendid ships like HMS Valiant. The yoof of the day, doing its National Service, would paint everything in sight that wasn't breathing or face another night in the barrel at the mercy of hairy stokers.
Then came defence cuts. But there were all these tins of paint... Staff solution - paint everything and everything in 'orrible warship grey.
So they did....
Well, my theory was that the ubiquitous 'pusser', so well-loved by the Senior Service, ordered vast quantities of 'Paint, Grey, War Canoes for the Painting with' back in the days when we had large numbers of jolly splendid ships like HMS Valiant. The yoof of the day, doing its National Service, would paint everything in sight that wasn't breathing or face another night in the barrel at the mercy of hairy stokers.
Then came defence cuts. But there were all these tins of paint... Staff solution - paint everything and everything in 'orrible warship grey.
So they did....
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Also splinter camoulflage was used on many ships - not to make it invisible, but to create confusion as to which way it was actually travelling
