RAF dropped by SAS
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RAF dropped by SAS
Daily Telegraph: RAF 'not good enough' for SAS parachute training
The Special Air Service is to move its parachute training to the United States because it believes that the Royal Air Force no longer has the skills to train its soldiers in Britain. SAS officers and the Parachute Regiment have accused the RAF of being more interested in preserving "jobs for the boys" than providing adequate parachute training for live operations, according to a leaked e-mail.......
A Special Forces e-mail passed to The Telegraph, titled "What is going on with Britain's parachute training school?", said the SAS "in exasperation" had withdrawn from the RAF's High Altitude Low Opening (Halo) course to train with the US special forces at Fort Bragg. The SAS and members of the Paras' Pathfinders platoon use Halo as a highly-skilled method to drop behind enemy lines.
Matters came to a head when the SAS "had enough of asking for the course to be updated to prepare troopers more realistically for the hard business of jumping from 25,000 feet at night, with large operational loads, onto dark and unmarked drop zones". This "shocked the RAF out of its complacency" and a new course was devised at the parachute training school in Brize Norton, Oxon. But, the e-mail said, RAF officers at the Parachute Department headquarters in High Wycombe "have not delivered the end product".
"Those in the know at Hereford [where the SAS is based] will tell you that this is because they do not understand the difficulties of jumping on to unmarked DZs [Drop Zones] at night because they have never done it." While RAF officers talked about it, very few did "hard-core" parachuting familiar to the SAS's air troop. "Yet, those officers would be the first to try to bask in the reflected glory of the SAS, often implying they were some form of superior being as they 'taught the SAS'," the e-mail added.
Britain is unique in having its parachute training controlled by officers from a branch with no operational experience, the RAF, to train the Paras, Royal Marines and SAS. While the NCO instructors "are well respected as pure parachutists" the Army has bitterly complained that not enough thought is given to teaching operational skills. There appeared to be some movement towards allowing Army instructors in when Wg Cdr Nigel Gorman, the parachute school's head, supported the proposal. But at High Wycombe "this was seen as a threat to the whole business of jobs for the boys", the e-mail said.
Wg Cdr Gorman, who the e-mail called "a breath of fresh air for the operational community", is now facing a disciplinary tribunal on bullying and corruption charges made by colleagues last December.
A source at the Ministry of Defence's Directorate of Air Operations said a five-year study had recommended to the director of Special Forces and the Parachute Regiment's commander that more instructors were needed from "an operational background". A senior Parachute Regiment officer criticised the "flat earth society" in the RAF who did not want change. "They want more time training themselves than those who are doing a job in the front line," he said. "They are not providing us with the right sort of training."
An MoD spokesman said all the parachute courses were under constant evaluation to ensure that they met the correct standards. "The Parachute Training School works very closely with all users to develop appropriate and tailor-made courses," she added. While there were no immediate plans to introduce instructors from the Army or Royal Navy, "suitably qualified instructors could be considered in the future".
It is also believed that training could be privatised with a contract going to Serco, a civilian company. The MoD said there were no plans to involve external contractors or "civilianise" RAF instructors.
The Special Air Service is to move its parachute training to the United States because it believes that the Royal Air Force no longer has the skills to train its soldiers in Britain. SAS officers and the Parachute Regiment have accused the RAF of being more interested in preserving "jobs for the boys" than providing adequate parachute training for live operations, according to a leaked e-mail.......
A Special Forces e-mail passed to The Telegraph, titled "What is going on with Britain's parachute training school?", said the SAS "in exasperation" had withdrawn from the RAF's High Altitude Low Opening (Halo) course to train with the US special forces at Fort Bragg. The SAS and members of the Paras' Pathfinders platoon use Halo as a highly-skilled method to drop behind enemy lines.
Matters came to a head when the SAS "had enough of asking for the course to be updated to prepare troopers more realistically for the hard business of jumping from 25,000 feet at night, with large operational loads, onto dark and unmarked drop zones". This "shocked the RAF out of its complacency" and a new course was devised at the parachute training school in Brize Norton, Oxon. But, the e-mail said, RAF officers at the Parachute Department headquarters in High Wycombe "have not delivered the end product".
"Those in the know at Hereford [where the SAS is based] will tell you that this is because they do not understand the difficulties of jumping on to unmarked DZs [Drop Zones] at night because they have never done it." While RAF officers talked about it, very few did "hard-core" parachuting familiar to the SAS's air troop. "Yet, those officers would be the first to try to bask in the reflected glory of the SAS, often implying they were some form of superior being as they 'taught the SAS'," the e-mail added.
Britain is unique in having its parachute training controlled by officers from a branch with no operational experience, the RAF, to train the Paras, Royal Marines and SAS. While the NCO instructors "are well respected as pure parachutists" the Army has bitterly complained that not enough thought is given to teaching operational skills. There appeared to be some movement towards allowing Army instructors in when Wg Cdr Nigel Gorman, the parachute school's head, supported the proposal. But at High Wycombe "this was seen as a threat to the whole business of jobs for the boys", the e-mail said.
Wg Cdr Gorman, who the e-mail called "a breath of fresh air for the operational community", is now facing a disciplinary tribunal on bullying and corruption charges made by colleagues last December.
A source at the Ministry of Defence's Directorate of Air Operations said a five-year study had recommended to the director of Special Forces and the Parachute Regiment's commander that more instructors were needed from "an operational background". A senior Parachute Regiment officer criticised the "flat earth society" in the RAF who did not want change. "They want more time training themselves than those who are doing a job in the front line," he said. "They are not providing us with the right sort of training."
An MoD spokesman said all the parachute courses were under constant evaluation to ensure that they met the correct standards. "The Parachute Training School works very closely with all users to develop appropriate and tailor-made courses," she added. While there were no immediate plans to introduce instructors from the Army or Royal Navy, "suitably qualified instructors could be considered in the future".
It is also believed that training could be privatised with a contract going to Serco, a civilian company. The MoD said there were no plans to involve external contractors or "civilianise" RAF instructors.
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If the DT is correct, it looks as if HQSTC is in the wrong here. This is a very specialised requirement requiring the very best resources and training. The SAS have done the right thing if the RAF can't/won't provide what they need.
Any pongoes out there like to comment on contracting para training out to civvy street?
Any pongoes out there like to comment on contracting para training out to civvy street?
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"Good heavens Carruthers...you mean these Brown Jobs want more than the tethered balloon thingy? Absolutely not old chap! Why, they'll be asking us to disband the UAS system next!"
Last edited by AllTrimDoubt; 1st Apr 2005 at 07:06.
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The MoD said there were no plans to involve external contractors or "civilianise" RAF instructors
My own experience is that the SF-attached PJIs were as keen as mustard, but held back by the attitudes of their "management".
Very recently I've been organising a parachuting and re-union w/e (static line only) - and surprise, surprise, RAF having none of it on any of their "manor". RN only too happy to help and have given us an airfield for 24 hours, no probs.
If they cannot provide the training....can they provide the aerial support needed for actual ops? One thing about it.....there is more than a little bit of parachuting done at Fort Bragg. It starts with the 18th Airborne Corps Commander and goes down the chain....not to mention the SF commands, and the SF School.
Tell the lads to visit the jump club at Raeford Airport on their time off....great fun there...good food too....a drink might be found too.
Tell the lads to visit the jump club at Raeford Airport on their time off....great fun there...good food too....a drink might be found too.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
AFAIK the SAS quote:
"Yet, those officers would be the first to try to bask in the reflected glory of the SAS, often implying they were some form of superior being as they 'taught the SAS'," the e-mail added
Is right on the money. We had a first class presentation by an ex-PTS officer. He illustrated his talk with superb slides and tails of dearing do (SIC) and said that he and the PJIs tried out all the parachutes and techniques before letting the pongoes use the new kit.
Yup they definitely thought they were the bees knees as they got to do all the trials and testing.
"Yet, those officers would be the first to try to bask in the reflected glory of the SAS, often implying they were some form of superior being as they 'taught the SAS'," the e-mail added
Is right on the money. We had a first class presentation by an ex-PTS officer. He illustrated his talk with superb slides and tails of dearing do (SIC) and said that he and the PJIs tried out all the parachutes and techniques before letting the pongoes use the new kit.
Yup they definitely thought they were the bees knees as they got to do all the trials and testing.
PJI's...Oh dear a dying trade me thinks. Along with the PTI trade that they draw from. That'll be civilianised soon, cheaper.#
Never come across such a bunch of self-centred posers in all my life... you can bet your bottom dollar they will not lend a hand unloading etc.
Too busy by the pool tanning....
Just deserts me thinks!!
Never come across such a bunch of self-centred posers in all my life... you can bet your bottom dollar they will not lend a hand unloading etc.
Too busy by the pool tanning....
Just deserts me thinks!!
Short Blunt Shock
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Better still, bin the whole bloody branch and spend the money on enough aircraft to support the training task AND the operational task at the same time. At the moment, we struggle to do both.
16B
16B
Does the Tele program..."Keeping up Appearances" ring a bell?
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I'm with Chutley on this one - more mountain Bikes and fewer handlebars 
Anyway, most of the real jumping is done from serviceable aircraft of another hue as the old joke goes. How many of them do the RAF have now ?
Incredibly funny jokes aside, another indictment of today's lack of joined up management I think.
Anyway, most of the real jumping is done from serviceable aircraft of another hue as the old joke goes. How many of them do the RAF have now ?
Incredibly funny jokes aside, another indictment of today's lack of joined up management I think.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Chutley, 'blokes in tracksuits'? In the fitness suite we had a bird sans tracksuite. Now that got the blokes in. Shame is she married one of the customers and he took her back to Italy with him.
Her replacement OTOH kept everyone out of the suite!
Her replacement OTOH kept everyone out of the suite!
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Perhaps the hooligans near the Welsh border will get someone to teach them how to shoot straight, and avoid shooting each other. I can remember when 2 of them missed their targets and the bullets riccochetted back into themselves.
Job for professionals, like RAF Regt instructors perhaps?
Job for professionals, like RAF Regt instructors perhaps?
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Have they ever considered asking good old thirsty six at RAAF Richmond.....been dooin it for years (at least 20)....or is that a well kept rumour....
Learmonth at night from hi level with no lights is a very dark place indeed.
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Learmonth at night from hi level with no lights is a very dark place indeed.
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