You Have A Week
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1. Bring back Bruggen
2. Bring back Laarbruch
3. Bring back Gut
4. Bring back Wildenwrath.
5. BRING BACK RAFG.
We had a sense of pride and purpose then.
And dont say we dont need it, the Army and the Yanks are still there. We did not need to be the first to leave.
2. Bring back Laarbruch
3. Bring back Gut
4. Bring back Wildenwrath.
5. BRING BACK RAFG.
We had a sense of pride and purpose then.
And dont say we dont need it, the Army and the Yanks are still there. We did not need to be the first to leave.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Scrap the RAF, RN and Army. Give all the money to the soapdodgers, immigrants, criminals and those that couldnt be arsed to work at school.
Oh - its sort of happening now
Oh - its sort of happening now
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KPAX
Didn't Healy say something like that in '66????
Cost a lot of lives that descision. You saw/heard what happened to the MoD over that guy that died for the want of a Flak Jacket. What's going to happen when a ship get's sunk for the want of decent air defence?
The Uk's government have stated the above....
The Argentiean Government have stated that they will pursue a peacefull solution to the Malvinas problem
.... Note in both cases its THE POLITICIANS that have made these statements. And we all know the worth of a politicians word dont we?
Britain will never go to a major conflict again without one of it's major allies, quote from Parliament 3-4 years ago
Cost a lot of lives that descision. You saw/heard what happened to the MoD over that guy that died for the want of a Flak Jacket. What's going to happen when a ship get's sunk for the want of decent air defence?
The Uk's government have stated the above....
The Argentiean Government have stated that they will pursue a peacefull solution to the Malvinas problem
.... Note in both cases its THE POLITICIANS that have made these statements. And we all know the worth of a politicians word dont we?
An Opinion
SRENNAPS
I totally agree with regards to RAFG. Station exercises are a waste of time according to some. I wonder how many OC Admin Wgs there are floating about the place that could competently assume their traditional role of OC Ground Defence of a frontline flying unit?
I also have asked myself that since the closure of RAFG how many juniors have the experience to be effective in the guarding role? Some may say it is easy, as an ex TACEVAL DS I can say that for the majority it was not. The strength of RAFG was the MINEVAL, MAXEVAL and the TACEVAL.
I know my opinion is not popular in this day and age and it is easy to be a WIWIRAFG type bod but the attitude there was oustanding. The Ops types Operated, the Support types Supported and the Eng types Engineered. All of this engendered the RAFG ethos and in summary that meant "We Can Do" at ALL levels and as a maxim that Can Do turned into a Did Do.
I know I will be shouted at now bt with a skin full of Mess champagne I rest my case.
Good night Gentlemen and Ladies!
PS Despite the vicious rivalries we stil drank lager bier together!!
I totally agree with regards to RAFG. Station exercises are a waste of time according to some. I wonder how many OC Admin Wgs there are floating about the place that could competently assume their traditional role of OC Ground Defence of a frontline flying unit?
I also have asked myself that since the closure of RAFG how many juniors have the experience to be effective in the guarding role? Some may say it is easy, as an ex TACEVAL DS I can say that for the majority it was not. The strength of RAFG was the MINEVAL, MAXEVAL and the TACEVAL.
I know my opinion is not popular in this day and age and it is easy to be a WIWIRAFG type bod but the attitude there was oustanding. The Ops types Operated, the Support types Supported and the Eng types Engineered. All of this engendered the RAFG ethos and in summary that meant "We Can Do" at ALL levels and as a maxim that Can Do turned into a Did Do.
I know I will be shouted at now bt with a skin full of Mess champagne I rest my case.
Good night Gentlemen and Ladies!
PS Despite the vicious rivalries we stil drank lager bier together!!
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1. Bring back a full taceval regime
2. Let us all practice whilst we can for what we may be called upon to do, if thats low level bombed up and dangerous so be it,
3. Man us for the task, or task us for the manning
4. If you are not actually on ops wear whatever the recognition colour for your service is
5. Stop the unknowing from controlling the knowing
2. Let us all practice whilst we can for what we may be called upon to do, if thats low level bombed up and dangerous so be it,
3. Man us for the task, or task us for the manning
4. If you are not actually on ops wear whatever the recognition colour for your service is
5. Stop the unknowing from controlling the knowing
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sittingstress
Oh how I so agree with you.
I have always had the opinion that when the last "RAFG" station, RAF Bruggen, closed (and I was there), we did not just loose another RAF Station - We Lost a Culture.
It was a culture of pride and meaning. Whether it was at work or at one of the many social occasions that took place, the majority of people GENUINELY enjoyed themselves and felt part of something.
The Can Do Attitude out weighed the negative attitude. Leadership supported everybody at all levels and this led to “real” high morale within the community instead of “pretending” high morale made in a political statement.
I am starting to waffle on, but unless you experienced life in RAFG, you can never understand what I mean. It was a huge loss that can never be replaced by any “5 ideas that would make the RAF a better force”
Oh how I so agree with you.
I have always had the opinion that when the last "RAFG" station, RAF Bruggen, closed (and I was there), we did not just loose another RAF Station - We Lost a Culture.
It was a culture of pride and meaning. Whether it was at work or at one of the many social occasions that took place, the majority of people GENUINELY enjoyed themselves and felt part of something.
The Can Do Attitude out weighed the negative attitude. Leadership supported everybody at all levels and this led to “real” high morale within the community instead of “pretending” high morale made in a political statement.
I am starting to waffle on, but unless you experienced life in RAFG, you can never understand what I mean. It was a huge loss that can never be replaced by any “5 ideas that would make the RAF a better force”
TAC Int Bloke
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If you're going to bring back RAFG can we have Gatow back too please? I see the 'Dutch airforce' types like SRENNAPS didn't mention us, Mind you I always knew those down the zone had forgotten us on the real front-line!
Yes, Him
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1. Bring back a full taceval regime
Seriously, I'm astonished if units no longer have MiniVal, MaxiVal and TacEval. It wasn't just RAFG had 'em BTW, every station did. Well. every flying station. (That bloody siren).
As for the main point of the thread, there's still six days to have a think...
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5 Allow service personnel to park within a reasonable walking distance of their place of work instead of giving priority to hire cars, workmen, gay disabled mothers etc
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16 Blades,
From my memory in service the reason the RN and Army appeared, from the RAF point of view, to be a"small flying clubs" is because they manned their organisation with the minimum number of HQ staffs and avoided the PTC/STC growth machine. In addition I suspect that if youtot up the Army holdings they nearly match the RAF for a/c numbers.
Finally, my buddies still serving tell me that the RN FJ guys are turning out to be pretty good mud-movers and can be trained in half the time - anyway did the FAA not always win the bombing competition?
Finally, finally, I seem to recall it is only the FAA who have shot down an enemy a/c in anger since WW2. So itseems pretty clear to me that FJ a/c operating from survivable moving airfields and flown by the FAA seems to be a good option.
From my memory in service the reason the RN and Army appeared, from the RAF point of view, to be a"small flying clubs" is because they manned their organisation with the minimum number of HQ staffs and avoided the PTC/STC growth machine. In addition I suspect that if youtot up the Army holdings they nearly match the RAF for a/c numbers.
Finally, my buddies still serving tell me that the RN FJ guys are turning out to be pretty good mud-movers and can be trained in half the time - anyway did the FAA not always win the bombing competition?
Finally, finally, I seem to recall it is only the FAA who have shot down an enemy a/c in anger since WW2. So itseems pretty clear to me that FJ a/c operating from survivable moving airfields and flown by the FAA seems to be a good option.
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Five ways to make the RAF better................
Give the FJs to the Navy
Give the SH force to the Army
Let Branson do most of the transport
Get rid of that horrible mess kit
Remove slot machines from the mess
Running for cover
Give the FJs to the Navy
Give the SH force to the Army
Let Branson do most of the transport
Get rid of that horrible mess kit
Remove slot machines from the mess
Running for cover
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16 blades,
you wrote:
"Give ALL air assets to the professional aviators (RAF), not Soldiers or Sailors with a part-time aviation hobby and a small flying club."
Donning my psychanalysts head, I note that you felt the need to clarify the professional aviator comment with the embracketed "RAF"
I see some possible conclusions from this, lie back on my couch.
1. Best Case.
You are aware that the words "RAF" and "professional" being used in the same sentence is tantamount to contravention of the trade descriptions act. You are using self-deprecating sarcastic humour and are therefore vastly too advanced for the banter level of your service. Congratulations, you are sane. If you are also able to fly competently, feel free to join the FAA.
2. You are aware that the words "RAF" and "professional" being used in the same sentence is considered by those not in the RAF as being tantamount to contravention of the trade descriptions act. You however persist in your delusions of service adequacy despite all the evidence. This I am calling the Melchett case. (a blind unwillingness too look facts in the face will see us through!)
3. Sad Case.
You are not in the RAF. This would explain your obvious misunderstanding of their capabilities. All your knowledge has been garnered from a dogeaten copy of a Commando comic found in grandads potting shed. Does your mummy know you are able to sign on to the PC?
you wrote:
"Give ALL air assets to the professional aviators (RAF), not Soldiers or Sailors with a part-time aviation hobby and a small flying club."
Donning my psychanalysts head, I note that you felt the need to clarify the professional aviator comment with the embracketed "RAF"
I see some possible conclusions from this, lie back on my couch.
1. Best Case.
You are aware that the words "RAF" and "professional" being used in the same sentence is tantamount to contravention of the trade descriptions act. You are using self-deprecating sarcastic humour and are therefore vastly too advanced for the banter level of your service. Congratulations, you are sane. If you are also able to fly competently, feel free to join the FAA.
2. You are aware that the words "RAF" and "professional" being used in the same sentence is considered by those not in the RAF as being tantamount to contravention of the trade descriptions act. You however persist in your delusions of service adequacy despite all the evidence. This I am calling the Melchett case. (a blind unwillingness too look facts in the face will see us through!)
3. Sad Case.
You are not in the RAF. This would explain your obvious misunderstanding of their capabilities. All your knowledge has been garnered from a dogeaten copy of a Commando comic found in grandads potting shed. Does your mummy know you are able to sign on to the PC?
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Aah jolly dee! A fish-head / TWA / crab p!ssing match. Should make for some fun posts once folk trickle out of happy hour to dribble beer on their keyboards.
Running away bravely to the pub for IPA and Lagavulin before the incoming hits!
Running away bravely to the pub for IPA and Lagavulin before the incoming hits!
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Maple 01
My Sincere apologies,
I must admit I did forget Gatow last night. I can’t understand why cause I tried desperately to get posted there after my first tour at Bruggen finished. For one reason or another I never managed to get to Berlin in those early days.
Then I did some time in UK and they pulled the bloody wall down???? Whose idea was that then?
I’m convinced to this day it was all a plot to stop me riding on the “Berlin Train”
My Sincere apologies,
I must admit I did forget Gatow last night. I can’t understand why cause I tried desperately to get posted there after my first tour at Bruggen finished. For one reason or another I never managed to get to Berlin in those early days.
Then I did some time in UK and they pulled the bloody wall down???? Whose idea was that then?
I’m convinced to this day it was all a plot to stop me riding on the “Berlin Train”
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Old post ressurection....
In reply to icarusthesecond:
Why not merge the FAA and AAC into the RAF as was done in 1918? The whole point of the RAF wa to stop pongos and fishheads going where God never intended they should!
Agree with getting Branson to do the AT, and banning slot machines (they cost so much money when you're pissed at happy hour!) and
Why not merge the FAA and AAC into the RAF as was done in 1918? The whole point of the RAF wa to stop pongos and fishheads going where God never intended they should!
Agree with getting Branson to do the AT, and banning slot machines (they cost so much money when you're pissed at happy hour!) and
Bismark, Bismark, Bismark!
If we're going to start that argument again, maybe you should re-read your moth-eaten copy of Sharky Wards' book again and check to see the name (and service) of the guy who claimed the first kill in the Falklands, and the names of those that claimed the rest. Might surprise you.
The FAA FJ's can't really claim to have done much since then though can they!!
BV
The FAA FJ's can't really claim to have done much since then though can they!!
BV
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Improve the quality of life of everyone in the Forces and not just the RAF.
Better accomodation for all. Make the forces move into the 20th Century would be a start, let alone the 21st century. retention is poor, you only need to spend a few mins walking around any service camp to see the state of some of them. The police dogs live better. I have just been to a unit where the work force have no telephones, no running water, and the nearest toilet for anybody below SNCO is about a 15 min walk away. All contary to the Shops and factory act.
Just treat everyone like adults would be a useful starting point.
Better accomodation for all. Make the forces move into the 20th Century would be a start, let alone the 21st century. retention is poor, you only need to spend a few mins walking around any service camp to see the state of some of them. The police dogs live better. I have just been to a unit where the work force have no telephones, no running water, and the nearest toilet for anybody below SNCO is about a 15 min walk away. All contary to the Shops and factory act.
Just treat everyone like adults would be a useful starting point.
I'matightbastard
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Get rid of the Tornado, the Jaguar, that new thingie and also the Sea Harrier. Then re-equip with Spitfires. Thousands of them. Think how many Spits you could buy for one Tornado and you wouldn't even have to pay people to fly them.
Also a few Lancasters in case the natives get a bit restless and a handfull of Short Sunderlands.
Also one Vulcan
Also a few Lancasters in case the natives get a bit restless and a handfull of Short Sunderlands.
Also one Vulcan
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1. Advertise some sort of photocall like 'big brew up' and fire the people who show up in uniform as they're clearly not busy enough during the working week.
2. Make stupid ideas a sackable offence, or at least resultant in a forfeit like 'next for OOA'. This would deter morons with nothing better to do like the Rucksack Policy Desk. PEd staff, whilst not necessarily responsible for the OFT, are guilty by association.
3. Make all officers serve 1yr in the ranks with the option to fire anyone who turns out to be a w@nker - we can be selective nowadays yet too many still manage to bluff it until we're stuck with them...
4. Perhaps, just perhaps, look at our end product - a flying aircraft - and work backwards who we need to keep and who we can afford to civilianise. Controversial I know...
2. Make stupid ideas a sackable offence, or at least resultant in a forfeit like 'next for OOA'. This would deter morons with nothing better to do like the Rucksack Policy Desk. PEd staff, whilst not necessarily responsible for the OFT, are guilty by association.
3. Make all officers serve 1yr in the ranks with the option to fire anyone who turns out to be a w@nker - we can be selective nowadays yet too many still manage to bluff it until we're stuck with them...
4. Perhaps, just perhaps, look at our end product - a flying aircraft - and work backwards who we need to keep and who we can afford to civilianise. Controversial I know...
Last edited by FOMere2eternity; 12th Dec 2005 at 18:49.