Human Rights & haircuts
Join Date: Dec 1999
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I am comfrotable with the differences between admin and DFDA action (having used both), and I guess it is pretty plain to most of us that losing your sec clearance can pretty well be the end of career depending on who and what you are...
I cant quote the exact case to refer to, as my USO was relaying to me an anecdote as applied to a airman at my current unit who redressed an action based on the court case result (and I can remember how sensitive Redresses are as far as -in-Confidence goes, so not willing to push my luck right now)
I will however see if I can find out...
I cant quote the exact case to refer to, as my USO was relaying to me an anecdote as applied to a airman at my current unit who redressed an action based on the court case result (and I can remember how sensitive Redresses are as far as -in-Confidence goes, so not willing to push my luck right now)
I will however see if I can find out...
Join Date: Jan 2005
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FishHead
Let's agree to disagree... I suggest you get your hands on the relevant DEFGRAM. The CDF directive WRT overseas travel restrictions seems rather black and white to me.
Whilst not an authoritative reference:
"Last year CDF Gen Peter Cosgrove directed that ADF commanders do not approve leave for ADF personnel intending to travel to any global areas covered by foreign affairs advisories for non-essential travel."
http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armyn...es/story10.htm
I'm not trying to be a smart arse... I just don't like the idea of people booking and paying for overseas holidays and getting caught out at the last moment.
Forewarned is forearmed.
Let's agree to disagree... I suggest you get your hands on the relevant DEFGRAM. The CDF directive WRT overseas travel restrictions seems rather black and white to me.
Whilst not an authoritative reference:
"Last year CDF Gen Peter Cosgrove directed that ADF commanders do not approve leave for ADF personnel intending to travel to any global areas covered by foreign affairs advisories for non-essential travel."
http://www.defence.gov.au/news/armyn...es/story10.htm
I'm not trying to be a smart arse... I just don't like the idea of people booking and paying for overseas holidays and getting caught out at the last moment.
Forewarned is forearmed.
Last edited by Point0Five; 11th Mar 2005 at 07:09.
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Dude, Man Up.
You knew the rules when you joined, I don't fancy going to work daily with a bunch of vain, mirror-kissing Tony and Guy styled freaks when I can get away with a tidy conservative £6 chop from the station butchers.
Whats next?
fashion parades in the mess?
Jeans in the bar on working days?
Now don't suggest you would support mullets or "Scruffy look" in the bar!
You knew the rules when you joined, I don't fancy going to work daily with a bunch of vain, mirror-kissing Tony and Guy styled freaks when I can get away with a tidy conservative £6 chop from the station butchers.
Whats next?
fashion parades in the mess?
Jeans in the bar on working days?
Now don't suggest you would support mullets or "Scruffy look" in the bar!
Just an other digit
Join Date: Aug 2001
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BEagle
He was in BA, the last I heard which was, admittedly, a couple of years ago. Although if he's flying a 7 to barbados, I assume he's still with them.
He was in BA, the last I heard which was, admittedly, a couple of years ago. Although if he's flying a 7 to barbados, I assume he's still with them.
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FishHead
Mate, you need to be sure of your facts. The rules for ADF members and pubic serpents are not the same.
My understanding of the RAAF position is that, in addition to the restrictions on travel to places mentioned in DFAT despatches, a number of specific directives have been issued relating to travel through the Middle East. If you disregard the directives, you will likely end up on at least one fizzer.
Sounds like second hand hearsay to me. It's true that there have been recent cases in the Federal Court that have ruled on the validity of some RAAF orders. However, to my knowledge, travel directives were not the subject of the litigation in question.
I look forward to your reply.
Mate, you need to be sure of your facts. The rules for ADF members and pubic serpents are not the same.
My understanding of the RAAF position is that, in addition to the restrictions on travel to places mentioned in DFAT despatches, a number of specific directives have been issued relating to travel through the Middle East. If you disregard the directives, you will likely end up on at least one fizzer.
I cant quote the exact case to refer to, as my USO was relaying to me an anecdote as applied to a airman at my current unit who redressed an action based on the court case result
I will however see if I can find out...
Last edited by Argus; 13th Mar 2005 at 05:38.
Am I missing something here?
When we sign on, we know the basic rules and by signing on agree to obey those rules. You can't pick and choose the ones to obey and ignore those you don't like. If you don't like it why get involved in the first place?
harrumph
When we sign on, we know the basic rules and by signing on agree to obey those rules. You can't pick and choose the ones to obey and ignore those you don't like. If you don't like it why get involved in the first place?
harrumph
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insty
Fair point, but surely you have to admit it's about time some QRs are due for updating. Although saying that I for one will take great pleasure in riding a horse to work, during my last week as a number, and presenting it to the SWO to look after. I guess some are there to be abused.
Fair point, but surely you have to admit it's about time some QRs are due for updating. Although saying that I for one will take great pleasure in riding a horse to work, during my last week as a number, and presenting it to the SWO to look after. I guess some are there to be abused.
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This was about mustaches, wasn't it?!? 
Since you asked, we colonial cousins do have more restrictive regs than our NATO allies, as evident by the German Öberst Hans von Diddeldörf here at SHAPE:
Now that's not very military now, is it???
Our are not allowed to extend beyond the sides of our mouths, so this one is fully acceptable and considered totally professional:
See the difference? Much better, right?
Cheers! M2
Since you asked, we colonial cousins do have more restrictive regs than our NATO allies, as evident by the German Öberst Hans von Diddeldörf here at SHAPE:
Now that's not very military now, is it???
Our are not allowed to extend beyond the sides of our mouths, so this one is fully acceptable and considered totally professional:
See the difference? Much better, right?
Cheers! M2
Thread Starter
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Insty said:
If you don't like it why get involved in the first place?
When I joined up, the RAF had 150,000 personell. PC was a ZX spectrum or Commodore 64 (rather than tree hugging) and financial constraint had not yet been invented. I was expected to do the job of 1 man, well perhaps one and a very little bit if career minded, and I did think that career prospects were realistic. Men were men, and WRAFs were ..... well lets not go there, however morale was a dam sight higher than it has been for a decade, and that was with siren equipped minis waking you up a 4am every other week.
None of these have changed for the better, but they have all changed never-the-less.
Air Force Law is ancient and unlikely to stand up in court if challenged, and by bowing to Europe, the rights of the individual have changed................or have they?
If you don't like it why get involved in the first place?
When I joined up, the RAF had 150,000 personell. PC was a ZX spectrum or Commodore 64 (rather than tree hugging) and financial constraint had not yet been invented. I was expected to do the job of 1 man, well perhaps one and a very little bit if career minded, and I did think that career prospects were realistic. Men were men, and WRAFs were ..... well lets not go there, however morale was a dam sight higher than it has been for a decade, and that was with siren equipped minis waking you up a 4am every other week.
None of these have changed for the better, but they have all changed never-the-less.
Air Force Law is ancient and unlikely to stand up in court if challenged, and by bowing to Europe, the rights of the individual have changed................or have they?
Last edited by Yozzer; 13th Mar 2005 at 16:31.
Fat Albert
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I fully agree with insty66. We all knew or should have known what we were getting ourselves into when we signed onthe line. Are we not all volunteers?
I would be the first to admit that the service I joined some 28 years ago is almost unrecognisable now, however the same basic standards and discipline are still required to ensure that we remain an effective and cohesive organisation.
All this PC and human rights rubbish that we are forced to endure today does nothing for morale.
An effective fighting force requires fit, able bodied people who are prepared to accept a degree of discipline. This is ever more important as the size of the forces shrinks and we are required to work under ever increasing pressure.
I would be the first to admit that the service I joined some 28 years ago is almost unrecognisable now, however the same basic standards and discipline are still required to ensure that we remain an effective and cohesive organisation.
All this PC and human rights rubbish that we are forced to endure today does nothing for morale.
An effective fighting force requires fit, able bodied people who are prepared to accept a degree of discipline. This is ever more important as the size of the forces shrinks and we are required to work under ever increasing pressure.
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"One-eye" was in the Army a few years back I had a boss who got very pi$$ed off with us constantly trying to grow longer sideburns (as was the fashion). His solution was simple and effective - he used a thick permanent black marker pen to identify the line below which hair was not permitted to grow.
All very amusing and it worked very well.
All very amusing and it worked very well.
Suspicion breeds confidence
You used to have to fill in a "Beard Chit" in the RN. Tashes were a no no, but they may have changed. Personally I did not favour beards it makes Jack look like a Viking warrior.
None but a blockhead
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I thought cooks and Maltese were allowed to wear full beards in the RN - everyone else had to get permission and the 28-day ABF inspection?
On the other subject, I once arranged tiny things in interesting configurations for a company which made whoosh-bang-nasties and other underwing poddage painted various shades of drab. Nobody told me when I joined that certain holiday destinations were verboten, but it was made apparent to someone who asked that his intended sojourn over the iron curtain (then still keeping the gangsters away) would result in massive career realignment.
Mind you, at the time the corporate attitude to human rights was that if you worried about such things you really ought to be hugging a tree somewhere else. Corporate culture was mostly about extracting as much money from the MOD as possible, building things that broke a lot and then getting the pals at the MOD and the FO to flog 'em off to people who either didn't need them or shouldn't have them. In either case, as the stuff didn't work very well no damage was done, and as the company was a fully paid up member of Uncle Arnie's Revolving Door Club it was always possible to find a well-padded seat for a well-padded backside from Whitehall or elsewhere who felt the need to make a move following some particularly bare-faced (look, no 'tache!) bit of chicanery.
I didn't last very long, which was a very good thing for all concerned. I'm sure the personnel officer at the company (very, very old-school Stanmore. "We really don't know what to do with you, old chap" was a typical item at our regular meetings) chortled as he tore up the paperwork. I now nobly support crown and country by contributing copious time and money to the upkeep of the brewing, distilling and salacious publishing industries, and choose not to wear any form of facial hair (except at weekends).
R
On the other subject, I once arranged tiny things in interesting configurations for a company which made whoosh-bang-nasties and other underwing poddage painted various shades of drab. Nobody told me when I joined that certain holiday destinations were verboten, but it was made apparent to someone who asked that his intended sojourn over the iron curtain (then still keeping the gangsters away) would result in massive career realignment.
Mind you, at the time the corporate attitude to human rights was that if you worried about such things you really ought to be hugging a tree somewhere else. Corporate culture was mostly about extracting as much money from the MOD as possible, building things that broke a lot and then getting the pals at the MOD and the FO to flog 'em off to people who either didn't need them or shouldn't have them. In either case, as the stuff didn't work very well no damage was done, and as the company was a fully paid up member of Uncle Arnie's Revolving Door Club it was always possible to find a well-padded seat for a well-padded backside from Whitehall or elsewhere who felt the need to make a move following some particularly bare-faced (look, no 'tache!) bit of chicanery.
I didn't last very long, which was a very good thing for all concerned. I'm sure the personnel officer at the company (very, very old-school Stanmore. "We really don't know what to do with you, old chap" was a typical item at our regular meetings) chortled as he tore up the paperwork. I now nobly support crown and country by contributing copious time and money to the upkeep of the brewing, distilling and salacious publishing industries, and choose not to wear any form of facial hair (except at weekends).
R
