Speed Cameras
Avoid imitations
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Thud, "Second beadwindow call in 3 days, methinks - you got summat against our company?"
Nah, used to work for the same one, just in a mischievous mood! Gone back to protect the guilty, now you know that "we" know
Nah, used to work for the same one, just in a mischievous mood! Gone back to protect the guilty, now you know that "we" know
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jindabyne
Declaring that "'speeding' kills!" is like declaring that 'driving motor vehicles kills'. Both propositions are true, but both are meaningless in isolation.
With great respect to your son, paramedics aren't qualified to make informed judgments about the cause of an accident. They arrive after the event, and aren't trained in accident investigation or reconstruction. I don't doubt dealing with the immeditate aftermath of a fatal accident is very emotionally harrowing but, emotion isn't conducive to detached rational reasoning. eg My objective view is that the annual death on the roads figure is reasonable, but I doubt if I could be objective if I lost a loved one in a road accident. Don't misunderstand - I'd like to see lower figures, but not if it means making speed limits even lower.
Of course, if there is an impact, greater speed increases the likelihiood of someone dying rather than being injured but, if that proposition was carried to what some might regard as its logical conclusion, we'd have to limit speed to that which a human body could withstand (without sustaining fatal injury) in the event of an impact.
US Herk is right - inappropriate speed is a potential killer, or at least increases the risk of someone being killed.
Breaking a speed limit isn't necessarily dangerous, any more than driving within a speed limit is necessarily safe.
Declaring that "'speeding' kills!" is like declaring that 'driving motor vehicles kills'. Both propositions are true, but both are meaningless in isolation.
With great respect to your son, paramedics aren't qualified to make informed judgments about the cause of an accident. They arrive after the event, and aren't trained in accident investigation or reconstruction. I don't doubt dealing with the immeditate aftermath of a fatal accident is very emotionally harrowing but, emotion isn't conducive to detached rational reasoning. eg My objective view is that the annual death on the roads figure is reasonable, but I doubt if I could be objective if I lost a loved one in a road accident. Don't misunderstand - I'd like to see lower figures, but not if it means making speed limits even lower.
Of course, if there is an impact, greater speed increases the likelihiood of someone dying rather than being injured but, if that proposition was carried to what some might regard as its logical conclusion, we'd have to limit speed to that which a human body could withstand (without sustaining fatal injury) in the event of an impact.
US Herk is right - inappropriate speed is a potential killer, or at least increases the risk of someone being killed.
Breaking a speed limit isn't necessarily dangerous, any more than driving within a speed limit is necessarily safe.
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Rafloo what utter codswallop!!
SO, you mean that if I drive my Audi RS4 long the road at 165 mph I am dangerougly close to death but if I reduce my speed by 20 mph that reduces the risk of being killed or injured by 100 percent?? (work out the maths 20mph x 5pc)
So if I reduce the speed by further 20mph I become totally invincible do I??? Don't think so matey!!
The speed partnership in Notts have posted this information in a safety leaflet and when it was pointed out that the stats were incorrect they withdrew the notice with very red faces!!
Anyhow its not the speed, its the sudden stop that kills you!!
SO, you mean that if I drive my Audi RS4 long the road at 165 mph I am dangerougly close to death but if I reduce my speed by 20 mph that reduces the risk of being killed or injured by 100 percent?? (work out the maths 20mph x 5pc)
So if I reduce the speed by further 20mph I become totally invincible do I??? Don't think so matey!!
The speed partnership in Notts have posted this information in a safety leaflet and when it was pointed out that the stats were incorrect they withdrew the notice with very red faces!!
Anyhow its not the speed, its the sudden stop that kills you!!
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Well, seeing as this thread is ongoing.... Why dont we lift speed restrictions on motorways between the hours of 0300 and 0600 Autobahn style
Phugoid, i thought RS4's were restricted to 155 mph like most German cars nowadays.
And bringing the AVIATION part back in to the frame, does the aerofoil create enough down force over the rear at these speeds?
As you rightly say its the sudden acceleration that does the damage, so are the brakes cross drilled or grooved?
Phugoid, i thought RS4's were restricted to 155 mph like most German cars nowadays.
And bringing the AVIATION part back in to the frame, does the aerofoil create enough down force over the rear at these speeds?
As you rightly say its the sudden acceleration that does the damage, so are the brakes cross drilled or grooved?
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Excess speed, or the inappropriate use of speed, is held to be a factor in 33% of all collisions.
Studies have shown that for every 1mph reduction in speed there is a 5% reduction in the number of collisions
Studies have shown that for every 1mph reduction in speed there is a 5% reduction in the number of collisions
Statistics also show that 75% of traffic accidents occur within 25 miles of your home.
Figures can be played with to get them to say whatever you like. The government would have you believe taht speed is the main factor in 33% of all collisions, the ABD would have you believe that excess speed only accounts for about 5%.
Personally I think that it is very rarely possible to attribute an accident to one thing. Many factors come into an accident, you would be nieve to think that staying below the speed limit automatically makes you safe.
I'm all for sensible speed limits - such as 30 mph ones in large towns or the generic German 50kph between the netry and exit signs to any village.
But most assuredly NOT the plethora of ridiculous nanny-state limits imposed by the mad vegetarians on bicycles who infest Oxfordshire's councils!
4 star unleaded and tyre smoke are the smell of freedom!
Oh - and NEVER slow down going past schools! Because:
1. Some tw@t will think you're a paedophile leering at the kids.
2. The little buggers will think it's safe to try to run across the road in front of you.
3. If you hit one, it'll probably make a mess of your paintwork.
Remember - the difference between hitting a pedestrian at 20 mph and hitting one at 30 is only the size of the stain left on the road. If they weren't on the pavements or a pedestrian crossing, it must have been their fault in any case.
But most assuredly NOT the plethora of ridiculous nanny-state limits imposed by the mad vegetarians on bicycles who infest Oxfordshire's councils!
4 star unleaded and tyre smoke are the smell of freedom!
Oh - and NEVER slow down going past schools! Because:
1. Some tw@t will think you're a paedophile leering at the kids.
2. The little buggers will think it's safe to try to run across the road in front of you.
3. If you hit one, it'll probably make a mess of your paintwork.
Remember - the difference between hitting a pedestrian at 20 mph and hitting one at 30 is only the size of the stain left on the road. If they weren't on the pavements or a pedestrian crossing, it must have been their fault in any case.
Last edited by BEagle; 6th Mar 2005 at 06:59.
Red On, Green On
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County of Durham has no speed cameras, and the lowest accident rate of any English county.
Cameras havn't saved a single life in Durham ......
Cameras havn't saved a single life in Durham ......
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Durham
...and the other thing I always notice when cruising down the Durham stretch of the A1 is that the local constabulary seem(subjective I know) to have a lot more traffic car patrols than many of the other counties between the Scottish Borders and Rutland.
I'm a firm believer that well-trained constables in cars are more likely to improve the nation's driving standards (speed, middle lane hogging, etc etc) than any number of grey money-making boxes stuck up on a pole at the side of the road!
I'm a firm believer that well-trained constables in cars are more likely to improve the nation's driving standards (speed, middle lane hogging, etc etc) than any number of grey money-making boxes stuck up on a pole at the side of the road!
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Waivar, yep as standard they are limited but its only ellectronic gadgetry..
A friendly word with your automotive ellectrician and the crossing of palms of a few pieces of silver and hey presto, De-restricted and 176 mph!! (genuine!)
Oh and it works for the most of the other german cars too, unless they are already running close to 155 max, then you probably won't notice a difference and isn't worth spending the money on.
And the answers to your other questions, mine are cross drilled discs 365mm front 324 rear and the spoilers are there for a reason not for looks.
Do I take it you also have one of these fine beasts??
Oh and I only use the extra mph responsibly and only on track days!!
A friendly word with your automotive ellectrician and the crossing of palms of a few pieces of silver and hey presto, De-restricted and 176 mph!! (genuine!)
Oh and it works for the most of the other german cars too, unless they are already running close to 155 max, then you probably won't notice a difference and isn't worth spending the money on.
And the answers to your other questions, mine are cross drilled discs 365mm front 324 rear and the spoilers are there for a reason not for looks.
Do I take it you also have one of these fine beasts??
Oh and I only use the extra mph responsibly and only on track days!!
Last edited by Divergent Phugoid!; 6th Mar 2005 at 10:20.
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I've always known as a fighter pilot that speed is life. Anything else is rubbish.
However, I guess there are a lot of posters on this thread who deliberately sit in the outside lane and block the progress of those who have a life to lead and claim that they have paid their road tax and are quite entitled to drive at what they consider to be a safe maximum speed. This is a peculiarly british habit and needs to be actively discouraged by a pass either side law as practised in USA for years.
And for those mentioned above who parsimoniously claim that one should obey all speed limits, of course one should but just remember that nobody is perfect and who wants to be a nobody?
It's not speed that kills but those who do not drive safely.
However, I guess there are a lot of posters on this thread who deliberately sit in the outside lane and block the progress of those who have a life to lead and claim that they have paid their road tax and are quite entitled to drive at what they consider to be a safe maximum speed. This is a peculiarly british habit and needs to be actively discouraged by a pass either side law as practised in USA for years.
And for those mentioned above who parsimoniously claim that one should obey all speed limits, of course one should but just remember that nobody is perfect and who wants to be a nobody?
It's not speed that kills but those who do not drive safely.
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Phugoid
Word to the wise when chipping the 4, increase the oil change frequency as the "on-board" comp's servicing advice can get tad confused.
These days I doubt I could handle an RS4 at full chat but my A4 does 130 comfortably on the 'bahn past Saarbrucken and it's only a 1.8T Sport.
And yes, I felt safe! In fact I think I would have felt more anxious if I couldn't have kept up with the traffic flow.
Regarding the subject though, I guess speed cameras are a necessary feature on the roads these days with everybody driving around in fast versions of their living rooms. Modern cars can and do tend to isolate you from the road and velocities (and dangers) unless you concentrate fully at all times and actually drive your car rather than just guiding it.
There is, however, a case to be made for "information overload" on UK roads, especially at night. The over abundance of road "furniture" in the form of signs, lights, notices, etc, can be and is distracting.
Word to the wise when chipping the 4, increase the oil change frequency as the "on-board" comp's servicing advice can get tad confused.
These days I doubt I could handle an RS4 at full chat but my A4 does 130 comfortably on the 'bahn past Saarbrucken and it's only a 1.8T Sport.
And yes, I felt safe! In fact I think I would have felt more anxious if I couldn't have kept up with the traffic flow.
Regarding the subject though, I guess speed cameras are a necessary feature on the roads these days with everybody driving around in fast versions of their living rooms. Modern cars can and do tend to isolate you from the road and velocities (and dangers) unless you concentrate fully at all times and actually drive your car rather than just guiding it.
There is, however, a case to be made for "information overload" on UK roads, especially at night. The over abundance of road "furniture" in the form of signs, lights, notices, etc, can be and is distracting.
This is a peculiarly british habit and needs to be actively discouraged by a pass either side law as practised in USA for years
We're allowed to overtake on either side, but it doesn't stop the right lane hogs
They just match speed to a kindred soul (or truck) in the left lane, and count how many they can bank up behind them 
Our State (Victoria) is obsessed with speed as a root cause of accidents, and are quite feral in their fund raising: 40kph school area limits, variable freeway limits, cameras (fixed and mobile), time/distance travelled cameras, etc etc. Budget allocation for speeding fine income, $A400million per year, from a population of 5 million
My 285Kw's just seem to get me down the freeway onramp quicker, to join the lemmings at 10kph below the posted limit. Sad, really
Nixor ut Ledo
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Beags You are a little off the mark when referring to speed limits outside schools. The problem is NOT with the little buggers who attend same - it's the feckwit mothers driving them there.
In my day (and I suspect yours) one walked to school. As you grew up you got a bike, but you weren't allowed to bring the bike to school until you had passed the bike test run by the road safety people.
Now, it seems that little Johnny can't manage even 500 metres on his own little legs (either because he's a fat little Johnny or the local paedophile is lurking around every bush) so mummy gets out the 4WD for the journey. Mummy is, as we all know, adept at multi-tasking which is why she is driving Johnny to school, making sure he's got his fat-boy lunch, making sure that even littler Susan isn't throwing up in the baby seat, and is glued to her mobile phoning her mates to arrange their tennis/talk about the good looking bloke that just moved in next door/bollocking her husband for not taking the bin out etc etc. And while she's doing all this she drives out from the school, across a major junction or into the stream of traffic, with nary a look at what the hell is happening.
.......and the normal driver gets penalised!
....... and prats spend time typing the words "It's easy - just stick to the speed limit".
all right, all right - I'll get me coat!
In my day (and I suspect yours) one walked to school. As you grew up you got a bike, but you weren't allowed to bring the bike to school until you had passed the bike test run by the road safety people.
Now, it seems that little Johnny can't manage even 500 metres on his own little legs (either because he's a fat little Johnny or the local paedophile is lurking around every bush) so mummy gets out the 4WD for the journey. Mummy is, as we all know, adept at multi-tasking which is why she is driving Johnny to school, making sure he's got his fat-boy lunch, making sure that even littler Susan isn't throwing up in the baby seat, and is glued to her mobile phoning her mates to arrange their tennis/talk about the good looking bloke that just moved in next door/bollocking her husband for not taking the bin out etc etc. And while she's doing all this she drives out from the school, across a major junction or into the stream of traffic, with nary a look at what the hell is happening.
.......and the normal driver gets penalised!
....... and prats spend time typing the words "It's easy - just stick to the speed limit".
all right, all right - I'll get me coat!
Forgive them Father for they know not what they speak!
Pray tell in the USA you refer please? We may have pass on the right laws...for motorways but there are plenty of rocks parting the flow on our roads. We have folks that think the left lane is the dedicated lane for cruising and it should be reached in as short a distance as is possible...held to the very last second and then the exit is reached by a screeching swerve across all the lanes of traffic. We have those who obey the speed law just as you do....never mind the flow of traffic is 10-30 mph faster than they.....thus the "rock parting the flow". Of course they have to be in the middle of three lanes...not the right hand lane which is supposed to be the "slow" lane. I might also mention the slalom drivers....weaving in and out of traffic dodging rocks and others that are doing a mere 30mph over the speed limit. We cannot leave out the truckers....riding three feet off your bumper as if that might enable you to drive any faster than the traffic in front of you.
Are your countries infested with moronic twits that can get completely baffled on how to accomplish the complicated act of entering or leaving a motorway with all those huge overhead signs that warn of the upcoming exit for miles and miles....or the on ramp that stretches out in front of them for a mile....with broad white stripes designed to funnel them into the traffic after they accelerate to at least 50 mph below the oncoming traffic's speed?
Why is it....you can march a company of troops and they all step off with the same command....or a formation of aircraft can depart with a single command.....but a line of automobiles will depart singularly with the onset of the green light?
However, there is a bright side to this....in a former life I drove big trucks for awhile....triple trailers....105 feet long....as Digger O'Dell the Undertaker says....while driving his hearse.....you get on in front or you get on behind. (Whilst entering the motorway).
It is the one, two, three, four, method of motorway joining....the wee naughty person accelerates down the on ramp (one)....they ride along side the big truck until they see the end of the ramp looming (two)....then they swivel their head left to see....surprise-surprise....a very big truck (three).....and (four) wind up jamming the brakes on and swerving onto the gravel apron there being no way to join the road.
These people are actually having offspring....scary thought that!
Pray tell in the USA you refer please? We may have pass on the right laws...for motorways but there are plenty of rocks parting the flow on our roads. We have folks that think the left lane is the dedicated lane for cruising and it should be reached in as short a distance as is possible...held to the very last second and then the exit is reached by a screeching swerve across all the lanes of traffic. We have those who obey the speed law just as you do....never mind the flow of traffic is 10-30 mph faster than they.....thus the "rock parting the flow". Of course they have to be in the middle of three lanes...not the right hand lane which is supposed to be the "slow" lane. I might also mention the slalom drivers....weaving in and out of traffic dodging rocks and others that are doing a mere 30mph over the speed limit. We cannot leave out the truckers....riding three feet off your bumper as if that might enable you to drive any faster than the traffic in front of you.
Are your countries infested with moronic twits that can get completely baffled on how to accomplish the complicated act of entering or leaving a motorway with all those huge overhead signs that warn of the upcoming exit for miles and miles....or the on ramp that stretches out in front of them for a mile....with broad white stripes designed to funnel them into the traffic after they accelerate to at least 50 mph below the oncoming traffic's speed?
Why is it....you can march a company of troops and they all step off with the same command....or a formation of aircraft can depart with a single command.....but a line of automobiles will depart singularly with the onset of the green light?
However, there is a bright side to this....in a former life I drove big trucks for awhile....triple trailers....105 feet long....as Digger O'Dell the Undertaker says....while driving his hearse.....you get on in front or you get on behind. (Whilst entering the motorway).
It is the one, two, three, four, method of motorway joining....the wee naughty person accelerates down the on ramp (one)....they ride along side the big truck until they see the end of the ramp looming (two)....then they swivel their head left to see....surprise-surprise....a very big truck (three).....and (four) wind up jamming the brakes on and swerving onto the gravel apron there being no way to join the road.
These people are actually having offspring....scary thought that!
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I've always known as a fighter pilot that speed is life. Anything else is rubbish.
Speed cameras are nothing more than another tax, pure & simple. The politicos can prattle on and on about safety, but at the end of the day, it is revenue they're interested in.
This public obsession with safety, however, trivial, really will be the ruin of all of our rights. The prats go on & on about "if it will save just one life, it will be worth it," ignoring the fact that the individual is not nearly as valuable as the collective rights. It's rubbish!
When this fact is pointed out, these same idiots will usually counter with logic such as, "you'd think differently if it was your family!" No, I wouldn't. I might not be happy, but guess what, life is not, never has been, & never will be, Fair. **** happens.
The constant erosion of rights & civil liberties sacrificed on the altar of safety needs to end or else we'll wind up in a police state with cameras watching our every move - wait a minute!
The sad bit is, this has begun to permeate the military to some degree. Safety is paramount in everything we do. If safety is paramount, might as well disband the military - it is quite unsafe to point guns & things & others, kill them, break their stuff and expect no retaliation!
Nixor ut Ledo
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US Herk ... and all the other RAF mates. Just bringing this thread back to an aviation theme. When I first became acquainted with the Vulcan force in 1965 the 1 (B) Gp SOP for the Vulcan was a fairly slim volume. When I left the force in 1974 the SOPs had grown to 2 fairly hefty volumes. And guess what? Vulcans still had accidents and incidents!
Yer can't legislate unforeseen incidents away. Accept the inevitable.
Yer can't legislate unforeseen incidents away. Accept the inevitable.
They also serve who sit and write SOP's. One must not be too free at breaking other's rice bowls. They were hoping for advancement as well.
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Didn't realise the Vulcan had a problem with speed traps!
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SASless,
I knew things had changed since the mid-70s when I revisited the USA in 2002. Your western drivers seemed to be much more laid back when I lived there in the 70s and instances of bad driving were rare. Now it is more crowded and many many people seemed to want to end their life and others on the highway. However, I didn't see any examples of stubborn obstructionism the like of which our drivers are too good at.
Wish we had pass either side and left on red (your right on red is right-on).
I knew things had changed since the mid-70s when I revisited the USA in 2002. Your western drivers seemed to be much more laid back when I lived there in the 70s and instances of bad driving were rare. Now it is more crowded and many many people seemed to want to end their life and others on the highway. However, I didn't see any examples of stubborn obstructionism the like of which our drivers are too good at.
Wish we had pass either side and left on red (your right on red is right-on).