to bang out or not to bang out
Whacy Wheeler
I was at Whacky's dinning out night at Cranwell. As I remember he retired to be a Justice of The Peace somewhere in Nottingham but I heard he had passed away a few years later.
Was any one asked to take his daughter to a summer ball, apparently if you took her you were in for a memorable night!!!!!
Was any one asked to take his daughter to a summer ball, apparently if you took her you were in for a memorable night!!!!!
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That was it ...
ace db - 'Ace Douglas Bader' to which WW would respond 'no he wasn't, he was a
'
I wouldn't have liked to come up against him in court! Sad to hear he's not around, though - one of life's 'characters'
ace db - 'Ace Douglas Bader' to which WW would respond 'no he wasn't, he was a
'I wouldn't have liked to come up against him in court! Sad to hear he's not around, though - one of life's 'characters'
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
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Didn't know he had passed away, very sad... His dining out night speech was fabulous. Quite relevant to what the services ask today of its aircrew. Part of it was to remind pilots that although they had the glamorous lifestyle and pretty girls, they were exactly the same as troops in the trenches, there to go into harms way. 'When the Queen pays you the Shilling, one day she might ask for her money back, remember you are just a number so live with it!!' It all brought a tear to the eye.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Never had to do a roll with a parachute on but I have lost count the number of times I have done para rolls tripping on nothing more than a pebble and come up dusty but unhurt.
Practice bleeding may be a pain but far less painful than the real thing.
Practice bleeding may be a pain but far less painful than the real thing.
Controlled parachute rolls are great for training, but I can assure you and I do speak from experience, that landing under a normal (not a sporty thing) parachute is more akin to the proverbial "sack of spuds".
To do one in a 20 to 40 knt crosswind must be bloody frightening!!
To do one in a 20 to 40 knt crosswind must be bloody frightening!!
Jimgriff,
Maybe I'm being a bit dull here but ......
Surely left to its own devices doesn't a parachute just go with the wind, therefore all basic chutes land downwind. There are vents at the back of a standard ejection seat chute to make it go forwards so that a concious participant can steer into wind. Crosswind landings therefore only come when someone has tried to mess with the laws of nature
I was in no state to try and steer anything during either of my descents, landed like your sack of spuds and then some!!
Any other ejectees like to offer their experiences?
T
Maybe I'm being a bit dull here but ......
Surely left to its own devices doesn't a parachute just go with the wind, therefore all basic chutes land downwind. There are vents at the back of a standard ejection seat chute to make it go forwards so that a concious participant can steer into wind. Crosswind landings therefore only come when someone has tried to mess with the laws of nature
I was in no state to try and steer anything during either of my descents, landed like your sack of spuds and then some!!
Any other ejectees like to offer their experiences?
T
Red On, Green On
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Controlled parachute rolls are great for training, but I can assure you and I do speak from experience, that landing under a normal (not a sporty thing) parachute is more akin to the proverbial "sack of spuds".
Also much easier jumping at night - the comparative lack of visual clues is an advantage.
How many on this board have stepped out - ie left a non-viable aircraft that was not fitted with a seat? A stude and his instructor at RN EFTS in 1979 had to leave their Dog. Stude landed sunnyside in the cow meadow, QFI finished easy-over in the slurry pit...
What one has to remember is that the majority of "Emergency" chutes are the smallest parachute that can safely place a pilot on the ground without too much damage.
The size of the chute is dictated by the space that can be allocated to store it on the seat. This usually works out to be a 24 foot 'chute or even slightly smaller on modern seats with a aeroconical 'chute. Design does vary the descent speed, but not that much.
Most sport chutes for trainees who use the round chutes before graduating to the square stuff are 28 foot in diameter and even these have a fair decent rate. Troop chutes are more often than not 32 foot in diameter to accomodate the kit they carry, but this is let down to ground out brefore the chap(ess).
The other factor in this is that sprts parachutists usually wait for fine weather before jumping and this isnt always a factor that an emergency ejectee has much control over.
The size of the chute is dictated by the space that can be allocated to store it on the seat. This usually works out to be a 24 foot 'chute or even slightly smaller on modern seats with a aeroconical 'chute. Design does vary the descent speed, but not that much.
Most sport chutes for trainees who use the round chutes before graduating to the square stuff are 28 foot in diameter and even these have a fair decent rate. Troop chutes are more often than not 32 foot in diameter to accomodate the kit they carry, but this is let down to ground out brefore the chap(ess).
The other factor in this is that sprts parachutists usually wait for fine weather before jumping and this isnt always a factor that an emergency ejectee has much control over.
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Interesting thread.
I was the "civvy" or is that "silly" who landed the Gnat in the field.
CAA say seats must be live in swept wing but not straight.
Having tryed it, I would land a JP in a field every time if I could and since I've had my one chance.... step out of a swept wing jet.
Not planning on trying it again though!
I was the "civvy" or is that "silly" who landed the Gnat in the field.
CAA say seats must be live in swept wing but not straight.
Having tryed it, I would land a JP in a field every time if I could and since I've had my one chance.... step out of a swept wing jet.
Not planning on trying it again though!
The descent rate of a 24 foot diameter chute even with a 20 knot wind to drag you about beats an arrival at a 450 knots with the same approach angle. Any landing except directly downwind (facing upwind/drifting rearwards down wind)....that is...feet, butt, head...hospital....will usually allow for relatively minor injuries.
The dragging part can become tiresome....after about the third hedgerow and fifth barbed wire fence....it becomes tedious at best. The real thrill is to cross a motorway in that fashion....been there...done that. Some genius wanting to have a laugh put a half brick in the end of the windsock. For sure it felt a bit windy but the windsock was not at half straight, now was it?
Someone remember the second floor breaking and entering in the housing estate across from the Sunderland Airport years ago? Done on a windy day by a sport jumper. Jumper smashed through the second floor of the flat....stood up...rendered a Cheerio and was snatched back out of the window by the chute blowing over the rooftop....pulled him up and over the roof...broke his leg when he landed on the other side. The old dear in the flat had a heart attack due to all the commotion and sight of the alien creature that destroyed her windows. Ambulance arrived to pick up the casualty....took the jumper thinking he was the patient....left the heart attack victim upstairs unknowlingly. Second unit had to be dispatched to fetch grandma with the heart attack.
The dragging part can become tiresome....after about the third hedgerow and fifth barbed wire fence....it becomes tedious at best. The real thrill is to cross a motorway in that fashion....been there...done that. Some genius wanting to have a laugh put a half brick in the end of the windsock. For sure it felt a bit windy but the windsock was not at half straight, now was it?
Someone remember the second floor breaking and entering in the housing estate across from the Sunderland Airport years ago? Done on a windy day by a sport jumper. Jumper smashed through the second floor of the flat....stood up...rendered a Cheerio and was snatched back out of the window by the chute blowing over the rooftop....pulled him up and over the roof...broke his leg when he landed on the other side. The old dear in the flat had a heart attack due to all the commotion and sight of the alien creature that destroyed her windows. Ambulance arrived to pick up the casualty....took the jumper thinking he was the patient....left the heart attack victim upstairs unknowlingly. Second unit had to be dispatched to fetch grandma with the heart attack.
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In answer to the origional Q - bang out every time if you can't AFL it onto an airfield. You may well walk away from the ejection (or at least get carried away ALIVE). There is only a slim chance of getting away with AFLing onto a "flat bit of ground" in a jet (even a little trainer).
Ref pretty para roll on landing - double figures in training parachute jumps + zero on pretty landings. Arrived like a sack of s##t every time!!!::
ref high wind speeds - if the donk has stopped I don't care, I'll hit the deck slower in the chute than in the jet and the chute will not break up and kill me! Bones mend, mince don't!
RAF stops peace-time flying if wind exceeds 40kts ::
:
Ref pretty para roll on landing - double figures in training parachute jumps + zero on pretty landings. Arrived like a sack of s##t every time!!!::
ref high wind speeds - if the donk has stopped I don't care, I'll hit the deck slower in the chute than in the jet and the chute will not break up and kill me! Bones mend, mince don't!
RAF stops peace-time flying if wind exceeds 40kts ::
:
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I can confirm that the British 24-ft 'Irvin Oscillator' is a highly unpleasant ride, and the best one can hope is to arrive on the upswing. (I didn't, ankle still twinges occasionally.) The US 'C9' ejection seat canopy was far better and you could kill the tendency to oscillate by releasing the centre rear 4 lines after opening ('four-line cut'), which also gave some forward drive and steerability. The same effect can be achieved on the Irvin, if you have a hookblade knife handy, and after that first ride I always did.
GV,
Cutting the lines would surely only work in the event you had a long descent? I would have thought that following a low level ejection, a guy wouldn't be compus mentis (sp?) enough to do that. I take it ejectees are a bit overcome for a short while afterwards are they?
Cutting the lines would surely only work in the event you had a long descent? I would have thought that following a low level ejection, a guy wouldn't be compus mentis (sp?) enough to do that. I take it ejectees are a bit overcome for a short while afterwards are they?
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Jobza,
Good point - but with a higher deployment it would help. The US system had a couple of loops ('four-line jettison') which gave the option of doing it. If unconscious/injured you certainly would not want any forward drive, as you might arrive facing downwind.
Good point - but with a higher deployment it would help. The US system had a couple of loops ('four-line jettison') which gave the option of doing it. If unconscious/injured you certainly would not want any forward drive, as you might arrive facing downwind.
hi all
Civvie parachutists, even with fully steerable chutes, generally knock off when the wind reaches 20kts(apart from the real nutters). Some of them put pressure on the drop pilots to take them up when the wind is greater than 20kts, but generally sense prevails. Given the amount of minor injuries that happen routinely(ankles, bruises,cuts,etc), parachuting is risky enough without factoring in stupidity.
Incidentally, a friend of mine ejected from a SHAR at low-level and was in the air for 0.6 seconds. The aircraft remained aloft for about the same. not much time for decision-making there.
regards
TDD
Civvie parachutists, even with fully steerable chutes, generally knock off when the wind reaches 20kts(apart from the real nutters). Some of them put pressure on the drop pilots to take them up when the wind is greater than 20kts, but generally sense prevails. Given the amount of minor injuries that happen routinely(ankles, bruises,cuts,etc), parachuting is risky enough without factoring in stupidity.
Incidentally, a friend of mine ejected from a SHAR at low-level and was in the air for 0.6 seconds. The aircraft remained aloft for about the same. not much time for decision-making there.
regards
TDD
