Engineering with the RAF
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Engineering with the RAF
Not sure how many RAF EngO's are on here, but i'd like some honest answers to a couple of questions if you wouldnt mind.
I'm off to Uni in September to study Aeronautical Eng at Hertfordshire with an aim to being a Pilot in the RAF... Now all I have ever wanted is Pilot, however have said to myself that should I be medically unfit, or realistically just plain not good enough, my fall-back is Engineer.
However i'm a very hands-on person and I wouldn't enjoy purely managing others. How hands-on can an EngO get with the aircraft? Is their role purely management of personnel? I've contacted Coltishall (local base) to try and arrange various visits but with me being out of school they haven't been too positive and have failed on each attempt to get visits or work exp. for any period of time.
Really i'm just looking for the honest truth, not the BS i'll be fed to get me to fill their quotas!
All comments appreciated as ever.
Thanks, Joe
I'm off to Uni in September to study Aeronautical Eng at Hertfordshire with an aim to being a Pilot in the RAF... Now all I have ever wanted is Pilot, however have said to myself that should I be medically unfit, or realistically just plain not good enough, my fall-back is Engineer.
However i'm a very hands-on person and I wouldn't enjoy purely managing others. How hands-on can an EngO get with the aircraft? Is their role purely management of personnel? I've contacted Coltishall (local base) to try and arrange various visits but with me being out of school they haven't been too positive and have failed on each attempt to get visits or work exp. for any period of time.
Really i'm just looking for the honest truth, not the BS i'll be fed to get me to fill their quotas!
All comments appreciated as ever.
Thanks, Joe
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Joe
Dreamed of being a pilot all my life until I went to OASC for the first time at 16 and failed the medical. As I was the scientific type at school, I was encouraged to apply for engineer and succeeded in getting a University Cadetship (when such things still existed) to help me through Uni. I emerged from the Cranwell training mill in 1990 and have not looked back since - I've had a brilliant time. To answer your specific questions here - not very hands-on, you've got technicians to do most of the hands-on stuff while you get on with the higher-level management stuff. It's not just about managing personnel, though, it's about a whole lot more. If you want to know more, check your PMs and get in touch.
Dreamed of being a pilot all my life until I went to OASC for the first time at 16 and failed the medical. As I was the scientific type at school, I was encouraged to apply for engineer and succeeded in getting a University Cadetship (when such things still existed) to help me through Uni. I emerged from the Cranwell training mill in 1990 and have not looked back since - I've had a brilliant time. To answer your specific questions here - not very hands-on, you've got technicians to do most of the hands-on stuff while you get on with the higher-level management stuff. It's not just about managing personnel, though, it's about a whole lot more. If you want to know more, check your PMs and get in touch.
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Joe.
Nobody ever made a fortune with his hands (unless he was an Artist or a Forger).
If you really want to be an Aircraft Engineer and work hands on then I suggest you get your Licences and work in the civilian light aircraft field.
What I suggest you do is follow the Maintainers advice which I suspect will suggest you join the RAF with your Eng. degree under your belt, hope for Pilot and take Engineer if you have to. For the hands on bit, I suggest you take up Gliding or build your own aircraft under the auspices of the PFA.
Mike W
Nobody ever made a fortune with his hands (unless he was an Artist or a Forger).
If you really want to be an Aircraft Engineer and work hands on then I suggest you get your Licences and work in the civilian light aircraft field.
What I suggest you do is follow the Maintainers advice which I suspect will suggest you join the RAF with your Eng. degree under your belt, hope for Pilot and take Engineer if you have to. For the hands on bit, I suggest you take up Gliding or build your own aircraft under the auspices of the PFA.
Mike W
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Hey Joe,
Bit of a long shot here, but you didn't happen to be at UofH this Wednesday did you? Oh, and I presume you meant Aerospace Eng, not Aeronautical (could be rather hard to take Aeronautical Eng at UofH!)
ASI
P.S. See you in September, perhaps
Bit of a long shot here, but you didn't happen to be at UofH this Wednesday did you? Oh, and I presume you meant Aerospace Eng, not Aeronautical (could be rather hard to take Aeronautical Eng at UofH!)
ASI
P.S. See you in September, perhaps
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ASI I wasn't there this Weds, had my interview/open day a few weeks before Xmas... after my superbly brilliant interview and winning smile, they phoned a few weeks after confirming they'd lower my offer! So yes, hopefully see you in Sept! (Apologies for the course name, I applied for A/nautical everywhere else!)
Mike - Thanks for that, not what I was hoping to hear, was hoping it'd be up to the individual how hands-on he got! But hey, I asked for the truth and honesty is appreciated!
Thanks all,
Mike - Thanks for that, not what I was hoping to hear, was hoping it'd be up to the individual how hands-on he got! But hey, I asked for the truth and honesty is appreciated!
Thanks all,
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Good choice of degree Joe, bloody hard work at times though. Although that makes it more satisfying than other less demanding degrees. You will probably find a lot of wannabees on your course though............
Good luck
Good luck
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I can vouch for that already, DS. I popped down to the UofH and spent the day with their School of Engineering this week, felt obliged to go and say hello after they rather kindly gave me an unconditional offer 
. Anywho, one of the things I noticed was that allot of the prospective students are wannabes (RAF/RN/Army or civil career flying careers planned), while those that are still in by the second/third year are either on the UAS and on track, or have their sights set on an Eng. based career (primarily civil it must be said though)
ASI
Joe; PM me sometime, UofH isn't my number 1 choice at the moment, but you never know.
. Anywho, one of the things I noticed was that allot of the prospective students are wannabes (RAF/RN/Army or civil career flying careers planned), while those that are still in by the second/third year are either on the UAS and on track, or have their sights set on an Eng. based career (primarily civil it must be said though)ASI
Joe; PM me sometime, UofH isn't my number 1 choice at the moment, but you never know.
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What I would like to know is where Engineering Officers go when they leave the RAF. Been involved with civil aircraft for a long time and have only met a handful. As for 'unless you are a Chartered Engineer you aren't an Engineer' crap. My Licence says Licenced Aircraft Engineer and that is good enough for me.
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What I would like to know is where Engineering Officers go when they leave the RAF. Been involved with civil aircraft for a long time and have only met a handful. As for 'unless you are a Chartered Engineer you aren't an Engineer' crap. My Licence says Licenced Aircraft Engineer and that is good enough for me.
Take heart from the fact that you are a "Licenced Aircraft Engineer" and clearly proud of the fact. But simply, you aren't an Engineer per se.
By the way, this isn't an Air Force Officer/Airmen issue; this is an industry wide problem where every man and his dog feels that they are entitled to call themselves an engineer.
Point O Five is entirely correct - 'Engineers' must have the recognised level of professional qualifications in order to be correctly termed as such. Otherwise they are 'maintenance personnel' or 'technicians'.... Slack industry practices in terminology are irrelevant.
BEagle BSc(Eng)...
BEagle BSc(Eng)...
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Short answer ..
After 26 years in the RAF I have never seen an Eng O get his or her hands dirty..
some will come outside out of interest but the novelty soon wears off...
they are officers and stay in offices where they belong..
Beware of ink contamination., it can be nasty on the hands.
After 26 years in the RAF I have never seen an Eng O get his or her hands dirty..
some will come outside out of interest but the novelty soon wears off...
they are officers and stay in offices where they belong..
Beware of ink contamination., it can be nasty on the hands.
Quite right BEags.
However, it has to be said that use of the word "Engineers" in the RAF is massively aircrew driven......we don't tend to describe ourselves as such.
L1011GE, in 16 years I've only seen one get dirty, and once having done so never ventured out again.(TFFT!)
They don't seem to like the cold and wet either......
Joe, if you want to be a hands-on engineer, don't join the RAF as an EngO. Likewise, don't join as an oik if you have a degree. Go for pilot and work down.
However, it has to be said that use of the word "Engineers" in the RAF is massively aircrew driven......we don't tend to describe ourselves as such.
L1011GE, in 16 years I've only seen one get dirty, and once having done so never ventured out again.(TFFT!)
They don't seem to like the cold and wet either......
Joe, if you want to be a hands-on engineer, don't join the RAF as an EngO. Likewise, don't join as an oik if you have a degree. Go for pilot and work down.
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L1011GE
Okay I'll take the hook.....
In 24 years I never worked on airliners so am not sure if you've taken the narrow view. Having commissioned through the ranks, I did do the hands on for almost half of my career. After that it depended on the environment.
On a sqn as an EngO at least half of my day was spent on the line, the outdoor bit. However HAS sites were different, if you tried to do the same you only knew what was happening in your immediate area and lost touch with the rest of your shop. Whcih you are supposed to be in charge of. There was also plenty of opportunity to get dirty during special weapons checks but that also meant lots of time in the office because you have to read and sign every single job card to check noone had interfered with the weapon systems. A nauseating and time consuming job. 2nd line aircraft work offered interesting engineering problems occasionally.
To answer the original question. Unfortunately, there are now limited opportunities for sqn work and these form a small proportion of your career as an EngO. And the overheads of personnel managment are huge. Engineer is probably a misnomer on units its more engineering management. Most of your career will be in staff tours with very little opportunity for hands on work and the amount of engineering inolvement varies, trials officers get lots, support management try and buy spares with no budget and try and deal with rafts of standards.
PS I PVR'd
Okay I'll take the hook.....
In 24 years I never worked on airliners so am not sure if you've taken the narrow view. Having commissioned through the ranks, I did do the hands on for almost half of my career. After that it depended on the environment.
On a sqn as an EngO at least half of my day was spent on the line, the outdoor bit. However HAS sites were different, if you tried to do the same you only knew what was happening in your immediate area and lost touch with the rest of your shop. Whcih you are supposed to be in charge of. There was also plenty of opportunity to get dirty during special weapons checks but that also meant lots of time in the office because you have to read and sign every single job card to check noone had interfered with the weapon systems. A nauseating and time consuming job. 2nd line aircraft work offered interesting engineering problems occasionally.
To answer the original question. Unfortunately, there are now limited opportunities for sqn work and these form a small proportion of your career as an EngO. And the overheads of personnel managment are huge. Engineer is probably a misnomer on units its more engineering management. Most of your career will be in staff tours with very little opportunity for hands on work and the amount of engineering inolvement varies, trials officers get lots, support management try and buy spares with no budget and try and deal with rafts of standards.
PS I PVR'd
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Are the RAF and Civilians going to reclassify the job of 'Flight Engineer' for those 'Flight Technicians' who do not have degrees? I see that there are Universities producing folks with degrees in Aircraft Maintenance. Are they Engineers because they have a degree? Strange thing is that they can't certify diddly until they have a Part 66 Aircraft Maintenance Technician Licence. It is a funny old world isn't it.
Back to my original question, where do Engineer Officers go to when they leave the RAF?
By the way I am far too long in the tooth to enter into anything other than a deabte on this subject. I have never been in the Forces, but have heard that there are some very good Engineer Officers and the there are the others. Bit like the civilian side I suppose.
Temps
Back to my original question, where do Engineer Officers go to when they leave the RAF?
By the way I am far too long in the tooth to enter into anything other than a deabte on this subject. I have never been in the Forces, but have heard that there are some very good Engineer Officers and the there are the others. Bit like the civilian side I suppose.
Temps
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RAF Engineer officers NEVER, NEVER, need to use the swarfega!!!
Whats the difference between a professional ball kicker and an amateur one, or cricketer, or golfer, or tennis player?
Golf Green Keepers now do Uni Degree at Birmingham Uni, whatever next? Will they assume a new title of Golf Green Engineer so as to fit nicely with their enhanced education? Get accepted into the Members Bar and drink / dine with the snivelling ex colonel secretary? who could very well choke to death at the prospect of the pond life getting above their station (or water line in this case).
Are Doctors not just better professionally trained medics?
Are professional Plumbers more than pipe cleaners?
Whats the difference between professional Technicians, Mechanics and Engineers?
Are parents, who happen to drive, as qualified as professional Approved Driving Instructors?
Why does the Daily Mail always harp on about '' Young Professionals'' , when they talk about anyone working in the media, or public relations, or even desk bound key board bashing bimbos, or anyone who works in the ''city'' yuppying their way from morning coffee to extended working lunch and on thru afternoon tea?
Everybody wants to be, in fact demands to be, A PROFESSIONAL .. Where is it going to end??????
Every Tom Dick and Harry wants a degree and status, OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What the heck is wrong with today's society which is so dammed class concious?
Whats the difference between a professional ball kicker and an amateur one, or cricketer, or golfer, or tennis player?
Golf Green Keepers now do Uni Degree at Birmingham Uni, whatever next? Will they assume a new title of Golf Green Engineer so as to fit nicely with their enhanced education? Get accepted into the Members Bar and drink / dine with the snivelling ex colonel secretary? who could very well choke to death at the prospect of the pond life getting above their station (or water line in this case).
Are Doctors not just better professionally trained medics?
Are professional Plumbers more than pipe cleaners?
Whats the difference between professional Technicians, Mechanics and Engineers?
Are parents, who happen to drive, as qualified as professional Approved Driving Instructors?
Why does the Daily Mail always harp on about '' Young Professionals'' , when they talk about anyone working in the media, or public relations, or even desk bound key board bashing bimbos, or anyone who works in the ''city'' yuppying their way from morning coffee to extended working lunch and on thru afternoon tea?
Everybody wants to be, in fact demands to be, A PROFESSIONAL .. Where is it going to end??????
Every Tom Dick and Harry wants a degree and status, OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What the heck is wrong with today's society which is so dammed class concious?