Compensation for a bad neck

[oldgimmer]

Beags

You didn't land the F4, you controlled the inevitable crash.

QTIs in todays air farce are definately Q'd. They receive the same basic training from CFS and then specialise in their own ac type. They are also subjected to the ritual yearly upgrade/confirmation of Q status. The fact that they teach students in half the time that they used to is a poor reflection on the depreciation of the service we give students of today.

OG

[seven4mankind]

O'h dear. This makes me 'shak ma heed'. The compensation culture has been slowly penetrating for years, but mainly non-aircrew. The rest of us generally feel that when we sign the blank cheque, we accept the risks of injury, ejection, capture, ultimately premature bad things, happening during the course of our contract with the Forces. I know so many people in the team that have suffered great injuries, pain, bereavement and loss and just continue serving with the dignity of any dangerous professional career. The guy's left and got a job; he's hardly in a wheel chair or one limb down as many of the squaddies are. I'm so sad that this will open the door to similar cases. Health and Safety factors can only go so far in training a fighting force. A sad day for all military aviators...Good luck to him, but this is a disservice I think

[dogstar2]

Flew with the Flt Lt mentioned in the article a couple of times before this incident. Yes he really was a real QFI (A2 at the time of the mentioned incident). For the record, he was, and still is, a very professional operator.

Perhaps the story goes something like this: Student completes target run, instructor decides to take control and give him a couple of minutes break as either a pat on the back, or as a means of lightening up a sortie.

[Fatty]

I knew the fellow in question.

I also flew with him, when he was still flying blunt and yellow stuff. I suppose I helped him get his fixed wing tick.

I feel I should say on his behalf, that I thought he was a decent sort and just the kind of bloke you would want in your squadron.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Any chance that our Harrier driver to be was on the ropes, and seized upon this event as an opportunity to both save face and grab some cash?
In my 12 years (and counting) experience in the instructional world I have found that the good students just get on with it, and rarely - if ever - complain. If they do, it's generally for good reason.
Contrast that with the "but my instructor taught me that way/my instructor yells at me/this skidball's out/I didn't get enough sleep last night" excuse-for-everything personality who can't come to grips with the fact that they're not making it.

[Background Noise]

Don't think he used it as a way out, I read somewhere else that he left later, after not being able to continue flying due to the earlier injury. Neck injuries are very real, especially on the Hawk, 'Hawk Neck' is a recognised condition.

The instructor may need (has had) to think about the CRM, or whatever you want to call it, relating to the onset of G - even after a formal handover of control.

[Rant On]However, if this stude (or anyone else) has been injured to the extent that he cannot continue in the service then the service(s) need to take ultimate responsibility, be it compensation or invalidity pension, for injuries (or death) sustained in the course of serving the country.[Rant Off]

[Roghead]

One of my "responsibilities" in a previous life, was the department H & S Plan. For those poor souls who have been involved in this well meaning but totally out of control nonsense, I can assure you that in most aspects of military flying it is impractical and all but impossible to complete a risk assessment on the associated aviation activities under the guide lines laid down by the Authority. ( If you don't understand what I'm talking about try a Google search) Consequently the Military must have separate and different rules.....don't they? Ergo, it follows that compensation claims in civil courts must be handled differently... doesn't it?
OK back to reality, the Armed Forces are quite different from civilian employment and the "risks" taken cannot be covered by H & S legislation designed for non military purposes. Therefore, and for as long as I can remember, we have "policed " ourselves and this claim might just be the beginning of the end (again)
74MK and Capt SD I'm with you.
Fatty, I must assume, from your comments that said stude had been got at by somebody then, post incident?

[Fatty]

When I said I flew with him on blunt and yellow stuff I meant the plastic stuff before the real warplanes.

I have not seen him since EFT stage.

I thought he was a decent sort then and not deserving of some of the comments earlier in the thread. That is all.

[buoy15]

Is the QFI supposed to give a risk assessment brief prior to every sudden 5G pull-up?

Perhaps the MOD could sue his mother for breast feeding him to infancy ?

Or his dad for conceiving him?

Had it been a "girly" would it have made better press?

Love many, Trust a few, Only sue if it's good for you!

[MightyGem]

Do the RN have Flt Lts? I can't recall hearing the term before.

[dogstar2]

I was refering to the Flt Lt flying instructor mentioned in the article.

[Ghostflyer]

'If only I'd known I could've done it, we could be living the high life Rodney'

When I was flying a somewhat higher g platform than today, I used to go and see the docs once every couple of months for some Physio, Flexeril and Brufen. Knocked you out for a day but the dodgy back felt great. God knows how often I was sitting in the back seat instructing and had to shout 'Belly Check!' to get my vision back and my head off my chest after an unannounced break.

Now move on 5 years, dodgy back plays up so went to see a civvy who sent me off for an MRI.

'Hey mate did you know you've got a broken back that won't heal?'

'Uuh no, when did that happen?'

'Hard to say probably about 10 years or so ago!'

So do I get a few pennies from the state, nah my mates get to laugh at me doing 'le mars' exercises before I go and chase the white pill. I don't know anyone that I flew with that would have sued.

Ghost

[Cambridge Crash]

Sympathy for an injured colleague?

As one who suffers from an injury to my spine, there is rarely an hour that it doesn’t haunt me in some way. Fellow sufferers will know the problems – difficulty in sleeping, difficulty in sitting still for long periods, almost total abstinence from sport, inability to do manual labour (and the cost of having to get people in to do simple jobs about the house), impact on relationships (eg separate beds!), manifestations such as numbness, formication, etc. Moreover, the prognosis for spinal injuries is rarely good; a chronic condition generally worsens – and the problems are not only physical. I face the prospect of not being able to fully participate in the upbringing of my kids, or sharing an active life with my partner, and have bouts of intense irritability brought on by the discomfort. Yes, ibuprofen and acupuncture, inter alia, help, but they do not fix the problem. Difference is, I have done 20 years in uniform and have embarked on a different career where physical disabilities do not generally prohibit you from working.

In contrast, think of this poor chap who has permanent neck injuries, was dropped from a career choice he was no doubt passionate about, and now faces the prospect of limited career opportunities – whilst in his early 20s. In a matter that is sub judice, I recently gave evidence concerning a reservist who injured his neck playing sport during a conflict in the Balkans. The case is being handled no differently from the matter at hand.

This isn’t an issue of blaming the instructor – I hope there was no malice aforethought; the student has suffered permanent injury whilst in the Service of the Crown and deserves recognition for the loss of earnings, and dare I say, privilege, by ceasing to be aircrew. If he were injured in combat, many on this site would be pouring out their hearts in some (slightly macabre) cathartic exercise. Should we begrudge him compensation?

[Arkroyal]

I wouldn’t have thought that Civilian courts understand military risks or accidents . They DO however understand Health and safety. And this is probably the angle that the claimant fought it from.

Redundant apostrophes removed for the sake of my sanity!

Saving Private Ryan was on TV last night.

Any of these chancers should watch the first twenty minutes and thank their lucky stars they were not born sixty years earlier!

A disgrace to the FAA

[Cambridge Crash]

Wet pants?

One of the concerns I have is that the chap in question is being identified as being a 'wet pants' for suffering a debilitating injury. Neither the State, nor any other employer, has the unreserved right to inflict an injury on an individual whether by design or omission. It is accepted that injuries and death can occur during MACA and conflict; it is not acceptable during peacetime training, whatever the justifcation

Tablet_Eraser - interesting, suing for a bruise? Unlikely to get to Court, or indeed an employment tribunal, as the nature of the injury is transitory, and indeed the complaint could be considered to be of a vexatious nature.

Is the caution of the CCS instructor based on an urban myth, or is it that the regimented Regt instructors are being overly pedantic? There was - apparently - an incident after GW 1 when an incident occured when real Autojects where still in circulation; perhaps similar cicrcumstances apply now. I would be interested in hearing.

It's a bit like the enduring myth that the RAF would have to hand Halton House back to the Rosthchilds if the RAF left the site. I recall being taught this at RAFC. Rubbish; the RAF obtained freehold in c 1919, but the myth continues.

CC

[JessTheDog]

Obviously there should be a great deal of sympathy for anyone who loses their career over an injury obtained in service and there should be some compensation as part of the discharge process. Is it unrealistic to assume that these would compensate insofar as money could compensate for permanent injury? If so, then no-one should need to sue unless they have an abnormal grievance.

[MightyGem]

I was refering to the Flt Lt flying instructor mentioned in the article.

Yes, but the article, in fact all of the articles, refer to the student as a RN Flt Lt. It's not a rank that I'm familiar with, that's all.

[DC10RealMan]

I know that my following comments may seem out of place and from a different time, but here goes!. It is my priviledge to be an "Honourary member" of the Mid-Kent branch of the Aircrew Association and as such allows me the pleasure of mixing with RAF World War 2 "types". Most of these elderly guys suffer from "Lancaster Ear" a form of deafness brought on by sitting with 6 feet of four Merlin engines for hours on end. I took one veteran back to Germany on the 60th anniversary of the shooting down of his Lancaster to visit his crews graves as he was the sole survivor and had suffered from psycological trauma ever since. Others suffered as POWs particularly in the latter stage of the war as well as seeing close friends "failing to return" night after night, particularly in RAF Bomber Command. I dont really have a point with this post and I am certainly not being critical of the litigant, but how times have changed.

[Captain Kirk]

Hey Ghost,

Are you sure you didn't hurt your back at the Brawdy Octoberfest? You could sue too - I will appear as a witness to testify that there were absolutely NO signs to warn you NOT to uni-cycle the length of the table - perhaps you landed on one of the CLOGS you were wearing when you ran out of table!!!

We didn't even get a H&S brief!! What do you reckon - 60/40 split on the takings?!

[6Z3]

"Lancaster Ear" a form of deafness brought on by sitting with 6 feet of four Merlin.

Two points:

1. My father was a LE sufferer for which he received a modest but welcome medical pension. A similar hearing condition today (Gazelle ear) enjoys no such compensation.

2. Absolutely no risk of getting LE at Culdrose then!