ground branch jobs

[snobody]

OK, OK, starting with an apology (which yes, I do know you should never do...), I'm not aircrew. Nor do I have aspirations to be (gasp!). For various reasons (mainly that I'm ancient), that route is out to me. Although I just registered today, I've been reading these pages for some time, and hope that some of you might be able to help me out.
I want to be an officer in the RAF. I'm looking at applying for supply, but having just received my application form, I see that I can apply for several (up to 6 I think) branches. I was considering also putting down admin and ATC. But I would assume that if I pass all aptitudes and one of those branches is crying out for people, I will be offered that ahead of my first choice. Can anyone confirm this? Could someone please tell me which branches are undermanned and therefore recruiting furiously? And if anyone had any imput on the life of a supply officer (or other similar branch), I'd love to hear it.
Many thanks!

[Fg Off Bloggs]

I know they're short of Admin (Trg) officers but you would need a PGCE or a teaching degree to fall into that pool. Also I believe that if you have the aptitude for Fighter Controller (not many have supposedly) then they will try to sell it to you. Actually, not a bad choice 'cos it's not bunker based anymore (might be for first tour) and you could end up on AWACs later on in your career (flying despite being ancient!).

Bloggs

[rivetjoint]

Doesn't ATC require you to have the enhanced medical examination?

[snobody]

So I wouldn't turn into a mole??

Medicals shouldn't be a problem (fingers crossed), aircrew is a no-no simply because of age. I would certainly think about fighter controller too, especially as you're starting to dispel my fears that it would involve spending the next 40 years of my life underground

[DSAT Man]

You don't need a PGCE anymore for an Admin Trg commission but you will need a degree and some experience of training will help. We are not 'teachers' anymore, although we still do some instructing, but get involved in many exciting and cutting edge training projects.

[ADIS5000]

Here's my take on things:

If you pass the ATC or FC aptitudes you'll be pushed in that direction (cos not many peeps have the aptitude). Both good branches and exciting jobs, but promotion can be a bit hit and miss (small branches = less senior officer slots). FCs are slowly moving out of the bunkers and E3s are a great job.

Supply and Eng, good promotion and some interesting posting slots available in unlikely places! Also good cross-over prospects to civvy world.

Admin - hard graft, very office orientated and generally unappreciated by the rest of the mob. But can open up some spankingly well paid jobs outside.

Regiment - well you'd have to be mad wouldn't you?!!

Also, if you fill in all 6 boxes you'll be asked questions on all 6 of your chosen branches.

Regards, ADIS

[uknasa]

"We are not 'teachers' anymore, although we still do some instructing, but get involved in many exciting and cutting edge training projects."

DSAT Man - What a complete load of shI^te!! The most exciting and cutting edge things that trainers do is count library books, administer ISS and give out whie board markers. Don't kid yourself mate!

[opso]

Admin - hard graft, very office orientated and generally unappreciated by the rest of the mob. But can open up some spankingly well paid jobs outside.

Who'd have thought that an admin job would be so office orientated? Micky take aside, it is also offers the quickest and easiest commissioned promotion opportunities of any of the branches if you decide to stay in rather than jump to an outside job. I know a number of adminers who fully expect that as long as they are doing a fair job and keep their noses clean, they can pretty much guarantee retiring as Gp Capts. Sad thing is, they're probably right. But remember, despite all the blah about all jobs above Wg Cdr being on a common list and awarded to 'the best man for the job', the reality is a bulletproof glass ceiling for all branches except Pilot.

Flt Ops hasn't been mentioned above. It is currently a very disjointed specialisation with little identifiable career structure and therefore vastly variable prospects for individuals (ie from poor to bloody awful for most people just the moment, although a couple of individuals seem to be doing enexplicably well!). Jobs range from the very interesting, high tempo and utterly ops focussed (more so than many of our aircrew on flight decks if truth be told), to the utterly banal backwater rubbish. It is still relatively early days and the specialisation is maturing, but until there is a better standardisation of posts and a sorting of career paths, little will improve. Whether this is the right time to join is hard to tell - it could be the ideal time to catch the wave that will benefit from a re-org and the fact that there are so many hacked off opsos leaving in the next couple of years that feel that they were completely mis-sold the specialisation. These gaps could provide the ideal opportunity to get in on an excellent, interesting and varied career. Job opportunities outside after Flt Ops are very good. I am aware of one Flt Lt opso recently offered an excellent job high up in an airline - higher up the chain than than they were willing to put a Wg Cdr pilot starting with the company at the same time!

Oh, by the way. I wouldn't count on the FCs keeping loads of seats in the back of the E3D - surplus F3 navs will need to go somewhere and the FC world has been shooting itself in the foot by stating that they don't consider the E3D to be a front line tour. Whereas hiding underground in Norfolk is! If the posts aren't core business, they are easy to take away...

[SpotterFC]

Opso

Who on earth has been saying that about the E3? I'd say that and 1 ACC are the only places that are considered truly front-line (911 notwithstanding)

snobody

My advice is to hammer on a CIO door and demand a Realistic Job Preview visit to every branch you are considering. You will then get a feel for the people, places and jobs, along with a chance to speak to people who do the training and are being trained - all over several pints in the Officers Mess. Otherwise you have no idea whether the CIO people are selling you a pup - not that they'd do that - obviously.

[Vapour]

Oh, by the way. I wouldn't count on the FCs keeping loads of seats in the back of the E3D - surplus F3 navs will need to go somewhere and the FC world has been shooting itself in the foot by stating that they don't consider the E3D to be a front line tour. Whereas hiding underground in Norfolk is! If the posts aren't core business, they are easy to take away...

Even with surplus ex-F3 navs coming through I would expect the FC branch to retain a significant number of positions on the E3s. After all, once you've cut all the F3 squadrons and you've run out of surplus WSOs, who's going to go onto the jet then? I can't see any economic sense in training up ab-initio WSOs simply to send them to the Sentry as WCs and IDOs.

Anyway, if you want a really exciting non-aircrew job, you could always join the navy. On the plus side, we aren't cutting loads of jobs. On the down side, there aren't many people left to cut anyway. Bugger!

P.S. If anybody is still hiding down a hole in Norfolk, they are indeed a very, very long way from the front line.

[Pontius Navigator]

I thought ADS5000 (?) gave a very balanced picture.

Agree with Opso tho. Aircrew accepted OpsO jobs as there was always light at the end of the escape tunnel, either back to flying or out to civvy street. The other reason was it gave a break from flying that might just be p*ss*ng the memsahib off a tadge.

Gave a good variety to life.

As a professional OpsO on a station there is often no light at all.

[SpotterFC]

PN

ADIS5000 - Air Defence Information Service (variant of RIS and can't now remember the details) to base of 5000', FIS below. (apologies if that's not what the ? was for)

Vapour

I think there only be ghosts of brave Norfolk firefighters down that hole now.

[STANDTO]

The thing that worries me soemwhat is, If I joined at 36, would I be tearing my hair out withn 5 years, or manage to see 16 out, benefitting from transferred pension rights from other Govt service?

What's it REALLY like these days?

[DK338]

Don't Believe all you hear about civvy prospects for OpsOs. I have just left the service albeit as a FOM and it is no exaggeration for me to say that my knowledge and experience far surpassed most if not all Flt Ops officers I encountered, as is the case, I believe, with most FOMs.

However, Civil Aviation is a very difficult thing to get into at a reasonable level at first and although you may have all the right technical ticks in the box, the one thing you won't have is commercial experience - sadly a significant handicap. There will always be stories about individuals winning good jobs but these are more the exception than the rule and usually have been embellished somewhat, also don't think that the equation of senior postition=high salary, because in civil aviation it doesn't. My knowledge of recently retired FOMs and Flt Ops Officers is a somewhat different experience.

My advice to you is steer well away from Flt Ops, as OpsO has inferred the branch has a long way to go, many peeps are shagged off with the crap employment prospects, there is virtually no career planning, guidance et al. Also they are pretty much despised by many of the SNCOs for being operational biffs with zero credibility and for stealing their jobs.

I am aware that my final paragraph may seem somewhat contentious but hey, there you have it.

[bigley]

DK,

I'm not flt ops but I have to take exception to your last post. Whilst you are correct that career prospects in the branch are still developing at the moment, much of the disgruntled feeling has been borne out of the initial recruitment drive over inflating the career/ promotion prospects in the first place. The truth is that Flt Ops Officers are, and always have been, in direct competition with the other 5 specialisations in the Ops Supp branch and have been penalised somewhat by the fact that even the system does not know what it wants the Flt Ops Officers to do. Ergo, how can a training package to properly prepare these individuals for their profesion be created? This has been identified and approval for a TNA on Flt Ops training is soon to be conducted. There is also no denying that the specialisation was established with no staff/policy foundations to steer it properly as it developed. This, I can assure you, is being rectified, albeit slowly and in relation to the budget allocated.

As for your comment regarding the SNCOs who despise and think they know more than the JOs, I challenge you to name a branch where this is not the case! For the record I am an ALM!!

[Inspector Dreyfuss]

"the FC world has been shooting itself in the foot by stating that they don't consider the E3D to be a front line tour. Whereas hiding underground in Norfolk is! If the posts aren't core business, they are easy to take away..."

That is one of the most factually incorrect statements that I have read for many years on this site. How ignorant!

The FC specialisation has worked very hard to provide personnel for the E-3D and we have consistently carried gaps at the CRCs in order to do so. Although homeland defence of the UK, the operational role of the one remaining bunker, is an essential military task, it is widely recognised that No 1ACC and the E-3D represent the operational, expeditionary arms of air command and control. For the more experienced officers, including flt lts, there is a large representation of FCs in the JFAC(HQ) as well.

[Fg Off Bloggs]

Yer, Ah (k)now!

Bloody FC Branch - they get where water can't!

[Itsrainingagain]

Flt Ops Jobs

Probably not an option - they are fully manned and not likely to take on many, if any. People who fail in other branches have left the service as there was no space for them in the branch they choose to swap to - Flt Ops! ATC and FC both have spaces - you have to have enhanced medical for both (better eyesight and an ECG every 5 years is about the only extras) and both need you to pass their aptitude tests. You can join both if you are older - up to 30 or 35 I think - check RAF careers website, it lists them all with ages. Check it all out first though cos despite what they tell you - it's not easy or even possible to swap once you are in!

[opso]

That is one of the most factually incorrect statements that I have read for many years on this site. How ignorant!

I can only tell you what I get told at High Wycombe - as it's apparently wrong, I happily retract it. Instead, I'll wait and see how many ex-F3 navs end up still living in their Lincoln homes for the daily commute to work.

[Skeleton]

As a recent ex FOM have to back DK and his post re the Flight Ops Branch.

It may never have been properly set up at the start.I remember visiting Strawberry at the time it was - and that was a constant beef from the school of the people they would be working with.

But that is really no escuse for what I saw as the Ops FOM on almost a daily basis, and that put simply was a refusal to get involved with anything the assistant's were doing career wise, and only if they thought they might get in the sh*ite, would they get involved on a daily basis. To a man they were all the same, and the reasoning when cornered into an answer, "the assistants were never mentioned at the school"

Armed with those facts may give you a clue as to why they are treated as a breed apart in the Ops world - put simply they are, because there lords and masters set it up that way.

Shame really because most of them were nice people.