Racism & Bigotry in the UK Armed Forces
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Racism & Bigotry in the UK Armed Forces
Having read through the Guantanamo thread and as evidenced in postings on other threads; depite what we are led to believe, it is evident that a lot of 'right wing' views are still very much to the fore within our ranks (pun intended).
If the people that post on PPRuNe, apparently individuals with opinions and intelligence, are prepared to write pretty contentious stuff - is it any wonder that the (probably) less-well educated are so easily led into doing the sort of things we have been seeing brought before CM in the last couple of days?
It's not always easy for a simple minded soul like I to read between the lines of some posts (tongue in cheek - serious?) If they really do believe what they write I hope they never arrive in a position of any power.
Yours in sadness
YCCMA
SpecOPs operator runs up to group of terrs....hollering "Group Hug!" "Now why cannot we all get along?" "Smooch! Smooch!" and marches off astride to report another terrorist cell rendered combat ineffective!
Psywar at its best.....why just not surrender and call it a day...turn the clock back to the Dark Ages and get on with our lives.
I kinda like having some brutish shaved apes that look forward to a good dust-up. Makes me sleep better at night knowing good men and women value freedom and stand ready to go after those who mean to take it away from us that do not believe the way they want us to.
Put me squarely on the side of the Neanderthals in this one.
Psywar at its best.....why just not surrender and call it a day...turn the clock back to the Dark Ages and get on with our lives.
I kinda like having some brutish shaved apes that look forward to a good dust-up. Makes me sleep better at night knowing good men and women value freedom and stand ready to go after those who mean to take it away from us that do not believe the way they want us to.
Put me squarely on the side of the Neanderthals in this one.
Al...
Are you qualified to comment on your perception of "Racism & Bigotry in the UK Armed Forces"?
Are you actually in the Armed Forces?
If Not: your opinions are not worth the bandwidth they're printed on.
If you are: you would know that there is no racism in the UK Armed Forces. It exists in:
1. The minds of a few individuals who quickly find themselves out of it (ie, it's not institutionalised).
2. The minds of the sick, lame and lazy who need something else to blame for not achieving anything in the UK Armed Forces.
3. And it exists in the minds of the whinging, comfortable, fat-assed Grauniad readers who wouldn't know a hard days work if it came up and introduced itself with a group-hug.
I think you've confused racism with intolerance for treachery and homegrown terrorism.
Hope your fishing was successful.
Are you actually in the Armed Forces?
If Not: your opinions are not worth the bandwidth they're printed on.
If you are: you would know that there is no racism in the UK Armed Forces. It exists in:
1. The minds of a few individuals who quickly find themselves out of it (ie, it's not institutionalised).
2. The minds of the sick, lame and lazy who need something else to blame for not achieving anything in the UK Armed Forces.
3. And it exists in the minds of the whinging, comfortable, fat-assed Grauniad readers who wouldn't know a hard days work if it came up and introduced itself with a group-hug.
I think you've confused racism with intolerance for treachery and homegrown terrorism.
Hope your fishing was successful.
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With you SASless!!
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
- George Orwell-
VEEPS
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
- George Orwell-
VEEPS
Precisely....
Whilst tree-hugging lentilst teachers poison the minds of schoolchildren with their bigoted socialist claptrap.
4 star unleaded - the smell of freedom!
Whilst tree-hugging lentilst teachers poison the minds of schoolchildren with their bigoted socialist claptrap.
4 star unleaded - the smell of freedom!
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Oh Beags, stop using such subtlety in your sarcasm...you must remember that our transatlantic cousins read these post as well. What are the chances of them thinking that you are anything but a mindless motorhead?
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But those arguments just retaliate against the argument. They don't defend it.
The Royal Air Force has a hardcore element of Racist and bigots who continue to sow the seeds of white supremacy. I have personally seen it and like our good friend states, anyone who has read the thread regarding the guys from Cuba will have been disgusted by some of the comments coming from serving air force people. Disgusted but not surprised
The Royal Air Force has a hardcore element of Racist and bigots who continue to sow the seeds of white supremacy. I have personally seen it and like our good friend states, anyone who has read the thread regarding the guys from Cuba will have been disgusted by some of the comments coming from serving air force people. Disgusted but not surprised
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YCCMA
You arrive from Mars and land in a girls' school. Your first assumption is that all earth dwellers have two soft bumpy things on their chests.
Don't therefore assume that all members of the services think like most (but not all) posters on PPrune's Mil forum.
You clearly have not read any posts by Jackonicko, or Pr00ne, our resident, oh-so caring, tree/bunny hugging members.
You arrive from Mars and land in a girls' school. Your first assumption is that all earth dwellers have two soft bumpy things on their chests.
Don't therefore assume that all members of the services think like most (but not all) posters on PPrune's Mil forum.
You clearly have not read any posts by Jackonicko, or Pr00ne, our resident, oh-so caring, tree/bunny hugging members.
Xbow
I can't let that go.
Where are all these "white supremacists?" If you've seen it, why didn't you do something about it? as doing nothing is as bad as commiting the offence.
I can say hand on heart that all the people who work for me are far too busy at work to be hatching the birth of the RAF Nazi party and their major concern is that everyone else pulls their weight (in a non fattist way).
Your kind of sweeping comment is just as damaging as anything small minded idiots take the time to post. Read your post in isolation and then refer to a-a's post and you'll understand.
If you were fishing well done
I can't let that go.
Where are all these "white supremacists?" If you've seen it, why didn't you do something about it? as doing nothing is as bad as commiting the offence.
I can say hand on heart that all the people who work for me are far too busy at work to be hatching the birth of the RAF Nazi party and their major concern is that everyone else pulls their weight (in a non fattist way).
Your kind of sweeping comment is just as damaging as anything small minded idiots take the time to post. Read your post in isolation and then refer to a-a's post and you'll understand.
If you were fishing well done
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Interesting to note that the first replies were in the tone that they were...
Airborne Artist - of course one can't tar all with the same brush. To do so would be to follow the line of 'argument' used by so many of the types that sadden me.
Training Risky - yes I am x 2 (and I shouldn't mind betting that for the latter, considerably longer than you!!)
Some of the posts above merely go to underline the intolerant, inflexible attitude adopted by a distressing number of people who are, in all likelihood, either in or progressing to, a position of power and influence over others.
I repeat my sentiment,
Yours in sadness,
Al
Airborne Artist - of course one can't tar all with the same brush. To do so would be to follow the line of 'argument' used by so many of the types that sadden me.
Training Risky - yes I am x 2 (and I shouldn't mind betting that for the latter, considerably longer than you!!)
Some of the posts above merely go to underline the intolerant, inflexible attitude adopted by a distressing number of people who are, in all likelihood, either in or progressing to, a position of power and influence over others.
I repeat my sentiment,
Yours in sadness,
Al
SASless,
We rarely agree, but I'm with you on this, to an extent.
Like you "I kinda like having some brutish shaved apes that look forward to a good dust-up. Makes me sleep better at night knowing good men and women value freedom and stand ready to go after those who mean to take it away from us that do not believe the way they want us to."
Certainly I don't want NCOs in the Paras or the Royals to be too 'fluffy', but I do want them to be intelligent enough to know when to tread softly and when to 'go in hard'. The different experiences encountered by the US and the Brits in Iraq gives some clue as to why this might be useful.
Nor would I be happy for the 'Neanderthal' approach to be prevalent within the officer corps or the more technocratic areas of the Forces.
So while I want those who defend us to be rigorous and aggressive in doing so, I do not want them to be:
1) Ignorant racists who see everyone with a brown skin or a turban as being the enemy, or who can seriously hold up Enoch Powell as a model of sensible racial policy.
2) War criminals who abuse prisoners (I'm not talking about making a few looters pick up litter).
3) Narrow minded right wing bigots or disingenuous fascists who are happy to allow their own prejudice to take precedence over due legal process.
We rarely agree, but I'm with you on this, to an extent.
Like you "I kinda like having some brutish shaved apes that look forward to a good dust-up. Makes me sleep better at night knowing good men and women value freedom and stand ready to go after those who mean to take it away from us that do not believe the way they want us to."
Certainly I don't want NCOs in the Paras or the Royals to be too 'fluffy', but I do want them to be intelligent enough to know when to tread softly and when to 'go in hard'. The different experiences encountered by the US and the Brits in Iraq gives some clue as to why this might be useful.
Nor would I be happy for the 'Neanderthal' approach to be prevalent within the officer corps or the more technocratic areas of the Forces.
So while I want those who defend us to be rigorous and aggressive in doing so, I do not want them to be:
1) Ignorant racists who see everyone with a brown skin or a turban as being the enemy, or who can seriously hold up Enoch Powell as a model of sensible racial policy.
2) War criminals who abuse prisoners (I'm not talking about making a few looters pick up litter).
3) Narrow minded right wing bigots or disingenuous fascists who are happy to allow their own prejudice to take precedence over due legal process.
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crossbow,
Of all the myriad of things that don't work in the RAF - and God, there are lots - racism isn't an issue, apart from perhaps the patronising policy-makers directing recruiting at 'minority initiatives'.
Equal Opportunities training patronised me and many others in the RAF because, for the most part, there was no need. Those I work and socialise with at the shop-floor level react aggressively and negatively to racist comments when they are occasionally heard. And before you say 'aha, there you go admitting racism exists', of course there are some, hidden in our midst, but the RAF is only a cross-section of the population. That said, the RAF has far less extremism of any kind than you would find outside the Services.
Journos, of course, love the stereotype of 'drunken squaddies', 'toffee-nosed out-of-touch officers' (ok, they're not always wrong) and 'racist bullying NCOs as seen in BBC's Casualty', whereas, in fact your average junior airman thinks far more than his predecessors of the National Service era.
Today's 'yoofs' in the RAF, on the whole, rank way above their civilian peers and, perhaps unfortunately for policy-makers, need to be nurtured and spoken to like adults, as opposed to patronised. Meeting people's aspirations and communicating properly with them is another entire post, but racism is definitely as good as extinct without the need for senior officers to produce propaganda stats saying so.
As for comments on this forum? Frankly it's nonsense to play the race card against men and women fighting for this country who express their opinion that potential opponents from within their own country may now stand to make a fortune from the compensation culture that enjoys their protection.
Of all the myriad of things that don't work in the RAF - and God, there are lots - racism isn't an issue, apart from perhaps the patronising policy-makers directing recruiting at 'minority initiatives'.
Equal Opportunities training patronised me and many others in the RAF because, for the most part, there was no need. Those I work and socialise with at the shop-floor level react aggressively and negatively to racist comments when they are occasionally heard. And before you say 'aha, there you go admitting racism exists', of course there are some, hidden in our midst, but the RAF is only a cross-section of the population. That said, the RAF has far less extremism of any kind than you would find outside the Services.
Journos, of course, love the stereotype of 'drunken squaddies', 'toffee-nosed out-of-touch officers' (ok, they're not always wrong) and 'racist bullying NCOs as seen in BBC's Casualty', whereas, in fact your average junior airman thinks far more than his predecessors of the National Service era.
Today's 'yoofs' in the RAF, on the whole, rank way above their civilian peers and, perhaps unfortunately for policy-makers, need to be nurtured and spoken to like adults, as opposed to patronised. Meeting people's aspirations and communicating properly with them is another entire post, but racism is definitely as good as extinct without the need for senior officers to produce propaganda stats saying so.
As for comments on this forum? Frankly it's nonsense to play the race card against men and women fighting for this country who express their opinion that potential opponents from within their own country may now stand to make a fortune from the compensation culture that enjoys their protection.
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Got to agree with FOM's comments regarding 'Casualty'. Mrs Kipper forces me to watch it every week! I have written to complain about the BBC's representation of Servicemen in that particular programme on a number of ocassions. Needless to say I have had no response.
PS. Don't tell Mrs Kipper that I've complained. She'll make me watch 'Holby' as well!!
PS. Don't tell Mrs Kipper that I've complained. She'll make me watch 'Holby' as well!!
Whilst tree-hugging lentilst teachers poison the minds of schoolchildren with their bigoted socialist claptrap.
On racism in the RAF
To my eternal shame, I sat by in the 80's whilst a southern african racist ba****d was allowed to hold court in the crewroom of an SH squadron. He was nco aircrew, and not a single superior rank challenged him. Why, because he was a big thug.
For evil to flourish only requires that good men do nothing.
CG
So, a devout coward then, charliegolf..... Or, if not merely lacking testicular substance, then perhaps just lacking sufficient conviction?
As for schools - when competititve sport and even the game of conkers is banned due to weak-willed huggy-fluffy lefty loonies, it is indeed time to speak out.
"Bo**ocks from a bloke who, since he has been cocooned at huge public cost from society in general, feels able to generalise at will."
I quite agree - you really were talking utter boLLocks!
As for schools - when competititve sport and even the game of conkers is banned due to weak-willed huggy-fluffy lefty loonies, it is indeed time to speak out.
"Bo**ocks from a bloke who, since he has been cocooned at huge public cost from society in general, feels able to generalise at will."
I quite agree - you really were talking utter boLLocks!
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Charlie Golf, just because you were a witness to racism in the 80s that does not mean its prevalent in every crewroom today. In the time I have served I can gladly say I have not witnessed or heard of any racist events in the RAF.
Why are the press picking on the military?? Easy option for cheap story lines?? Anyone been to a football match recently and heard the horrific levels of racism being hurled towards the players??
SH squadron, Support Helicopters, the operational bit of the RAF.!!
Why are the press picking on the military?? Easy option for cheap story lines?? Anyone been to a football match recently and heard the horrific levels of racism being hurled towards the players??
SH squadron, Support Helicopters, the operational bit of the RAF.!!
merely lacking testicular substance, then perhaps just lacking sufficient conviction?
Both then, aged 20. Not so now, I hope. Older and wiser men didn't have the same excuse.
Your knowledge of huggy fluffy schools will come, I suspect from the same tabloids which crucify the armed services for any and all 'misdemeanours', which is how they recently veiwed expenses and the like.
Do you swallow everything they write?
Working hard
Exactly that- not speaking out.
CG