When Will The Vc-10 Leave?
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When Will The Vc-10 Leave?
ITS JUST A THOUGHT BUT WHILST THE VC-10 GUYS ARE SAT IN BAHRAIN ON CLOSE TO A 1000 POUNDS A MONTH, IN APARTMENTS , WITH A NICE POOL ETC ETC, THE REST OF US MULTI ENGINE, HELICOPTER AND FAST JET GUYS ARE GETTING NOTHING.
NOT A MOAN, BECAUSE I LOVE MY EXTRA FEW POUNDS A DAY WHEN IM IN BASRA, BUT WHEN I HEAR THAT THE VC-1O GUYS ARE COMPLAINING THAT THEY HAVE TO DOUBLE UP ON ROOMS, I FEEL QUITE ANNOYED.
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO BE IN BAHRAIN?IM SURE THEY WERE THERE ON INVITE, BUT IS THIS STILL THE CASE?AND IF NOT, HOW MUCH IS IS COSTING IN LANDING FEES,NOISE CHARGES ETC ETC
JUST A THOUGHT!
NOT A MOAN, BECAUSE I LOVE MY EXTRA FEW POUNDS A DAY WHEN IM IN BASRA, BUT WHEN I HEAR THAT THE VC-1O GUYS ARE COMPLAINING THAT THEY HAVE TO DOUBLE UP ON ROOMS, I FEEL QUITE ANNOYED.
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MUCH IT COSTS TO BE IN BAHRAIN?IM SURE THEY WERE THERE ON INVITE, BUT IS THIS STILL THE CASE?AND IF NOT, HOW MUCH IS IS COSTING IN LANDING FEES,NOISE CHARGES ETC ETC
JUST A THOUGHT!
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not moaning about allowances, if you read the topic correctly - just readdressing the balance a little bit and wondering how the oh so shiny and lovely vc-10 has got away with it for so long!!
When you've learned to read, get hold of a copy of Strike Command Accounting Instructions.
When you've read it, perhaps you won't need to make such naiive posts.
When you've read it, perhaps you won't need to make such naiive posts.
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Bitching about other fleets, that's just what we need. And on a public forum too; I'll bet the tabloids keep an eye on these pages.
In this particular case, no one has been 'getting away' with anything. I'll bet you complained in the dinner queue at school because the other boys got more pototoes than you.
There are bigger problems in the air force right now than this. The 'your det is better than my det' griping seems a bit unnecessary.
In this particular case, no one has been 'getting away' with anything. I'll bet you complained in the dinner queue at school because the other boys got more pototoes than you.
There are bigger problems in the air force right now than this. The 'your det is better than my det' griping seems a bit unnecessary.
Champagne anyone...?
Sorry tb, but I can never really begrudge anyone on another fleet legally getting a good deal no matter how crap mine is at the time. If they then want to whinge about doubling up or about the champagne being flat then fine, let 'em. It's not going to make any difference to mine or your life so let em get on with it.
Frankly, good luck to em I say - it's all swings and roundabouts. I spent the last "war" in rather opulent
surroundings and did rather well out of it thank you. The flip side is I now get to live in a tent and pick weevils out of sausage rolls.
Frankly, good luck to em I say - it's all swings and roundabouts. I spent the last "war" in rather opulent
surroundings and did rather well out of it thank you. The flip side is I now get to live in a tent and pick weevils out of sausage rolls.
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Always had to put up the the FJ and rotary boys (not to mention ALL Pongos) bleating about what a soft deal the truckies got.
Well, serves them right for getting into the wrong jobs!
Seriously, if they're entitled to it then the issue is not "why have they got it?" but "what can we do to get it?".
Never try to take a decent package off the chaps who have it - just aspire/lobby to get the same deal for yourselves.
Well, serves them right for getting into the wrong jobs!
Seriously, if they're entitled to it then the issue is not "why have they got it?" but "what can we do to get it?".
Never try to take a decent package off the chaps who have it - just aspire/lobby to get the same deal for yourselves.
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The rules is the rules. If someone can exploit them (sorry - interpret them to their advantage) then so much the better. Makes up for all the other crap that comes ones way.
For example: How many people go to the dining car of the train and have a luvverly meal, with wine, add 10% for the steward and claim for that - or instead are satisfied with a miserly Rate 5 and buy your own over-priced stale burger from the buffet counter? (Might have changed a bit since 93 but check with your friendly blunty)
For example: How many people go to the dining car of the train and have a luvverly meal, with wine, add 10% for the steward and claim for that - or instead are satisfied with a miserly Rate 5 and buy your own over-priced stale burger from the buffet counter? (Might have changed a bit since 93 but check with your friendly blunty)
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truckiebloke,
come on old boy, get a life.
Just 'cos someone in this air farce is doing ok is not a reason for you to slag them off. If you are a truckie, then go join their fleet!! Doh!!
We can all sit here and bleat about one fleet getting better asccomodation/rates blah than someone else, but hey, so what?
Live with it my dear chap
Kind regards to all
The Swinging Monkey
come on old boy, get a life.
Just 'cos someone in this air farce is doing ok is not a reason for you to slag them off. If you are a truckie, then go join their fleet!! Doh!!
We can all sit here and bleat about one fleet getting better asccomodation/rates blah than someone else, but hey, so what?
Live with it my dear chap
Kind regards to all
The Swinging Monkey
Having had a tour on Vulcans, I was reasonably au fait with the entitlements laid down for STC aircrew.
This one time, not at band camp but on det at Gutersloh, with the F4 outfit I was on at the time, the resident Blunties at Gut intended to stitch us up like kippers - accommodating us off-base but expecting everyone to get on a bus every night to eat at the OM, for example. This was clearly bolleaux, so I volunteered to the DetCo to sort it out...
When we got to Gut, the ProjO tried to bull$hit us at the arrival brief - and was soon cornered by the Herc gang and myself until he relented and agreed to Form 95s plus the proper scale of allowances for those off base....
When we got back, I got everyone into the briefing room, handed out the 6663s etc and told them how to fill them in. It was like dealing with sulking children.."Why do we need all this cr@p?". Eventually when all was done, off to the mnoey folk at Handbrake House - and they all got another £40 or so as the Gut Blunties had given us the wrong rate!
Were they grateful? Were they hell. Just moaned about a little form filling even though they then got what they were entitled to.. If that's the general attitude, well, enjoy doubling up in your tents or whatever...
And the nice German chap in whose hotel we stayed gave me an extremely nice bottle of wine as a thank you for sorting all the bills etc!
At the end of the day, what you are entitled to is laid down and is NOT specific to a/c type. But the thing to watch is that some beancounter hasn't written independent detachment accounting instructions stitching you up - if he has, you're screwed. NEVER accept accommodation which is not 'commensurate with home base entitlement' - do you double up in your OM or Sgt's Mess? No? Well neither should you when away - UNLESS there is literally nothing else available. And the blackmail applied to some forces "You're not going unless you double up on base" is totally contrary to the rules. Came across a Nimrod crew in Bermuda who'd been subjected to that - whilst we, of course, lived very nicely in the Bermudiana Hotel
This one time, not at band camp but on det at Gutersloh, with the F4 outfit I was on at the time, the resident Blunties at Gut intended to stitch us up like kippers - accommodating us off-base but expecting everyone to get on a bus every night to eat at the OM, for example. This was clearly bolleaux, so I volunteered to the DetCo to sort it out...
When we got to Gut, the ProjO tried to bull$hit us at the arrival brief - and was soon cornered by the Herc gang and myself until he relented and agreed to Form 95s plus the proper scale of allowances for those off base....
When we got back, I got everyone into the briefing room, handed out the 6663s etc and told them how to fill them in. It was like dealing with sulking children.."Why do we need all this cr@p?". Eventually when all was done, off to the mnoey folk at Handbrake House - and they all got another £40 or so as the Gut Blunties had given us the wrong rate!
Were they grateful? Were they hell. Just moaned about a little form filling even though they then got what they were entitled to.. If that's the general attitude, well, enjoy doubling up in your tents or whatever...
And the nice German chap in whose hotel we stayed gave me an extremely nice bottle of wine as a thank you for sorting all the bills etc!
At the end of the day, what you are entitled to is laid down and is NOT specific to a/c type. But the thing to watch is that some beancounter hasn't written independent detachment accounting instructions stitching you up - if he has, you're screwed. NEVER accept accommodation which is not 'commensurate with home base entitlement' - do you double up in your OM or Sgt's Mess? No? Well neither should you when away - UNLESS there is literally nothing else available. And the blackmail applied to some forces "You're not going unless you double up on base" is totally contrary to the rules. Came across a Nimrod crew in Bermuda who'd been subjected to that - whilst we, of course, lived very nicely in the Bermudiana Hotel
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The Nassau Beach Hotel on cable Beach in the Bahamas was quite nice for a week in 1985 when we dropped in in our shiny VC10. The manager apologised for only having the "more expensive penthouse suites avaialble." Step forward First Officer with HM AmEx card. "That will do nicely sir."
I dont suppose that happens too much nowadays!
I dont suppose that happens too much nowadays!
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we all get certain perks when we go away , with the odd states trip etc etc... i just think that when everybody else is based in the ****e holes it is kinda annoying to see the vc-10 guys spending tens of thousands of pounds and then COMPLAINING about it!!
it would be nice to see that money redirected to making better facilities at basra,giving extra time for phone calls home(instead of 20 mins a week) or even extra protection around the base...
its just a thought.......
it would be nice to see that money redirected to making better facilities at basra,giving extra time for phone calls home(instead of 20 mins a week) or even extra protection around the base...
its just a thought.......
Champagne anyone...?
No but seriously, who cares?
I somehow don't think that BZN is going to spunk it's T&S budget on extra sandbags for Basrah so bleating about it won't change anything. Except you've probably got some Sun scumbag winging his way to the ME for the next expose.....
Anyway, good luck to em I say, even if they are whinging. It just makes the fall even harder when it's their turn to pick weevils out of co-pilots
I somehow don't think that BZN is going to spunk it's T&S budget on extra sandbags for Basrah so bleating about it won't change anything. Except you've probably got some Sun scumbag winging his way to the ME for the next expose.....
Anyway, good luck to em I say, even if they are whinging. It just makes the fall even harder when it's their turn to pick weevils out of co-pilots
VC10 co-pilots have always been trained to First Pilot standard. They have never been mere flap-snatching wireless operators.
Neither have they ever been termed 'First Officers'.
Not sure about the Nassau Beach, but certainly the Royal Hawaiian and Hawiian Hilton hotels were better than the Outrigger Malia. And the brand-new Ford Thunderbird coupes we were given made jolly nice hire cars*......
Enjoying your tent, truckiebloke?
*There was a reason for that. The average American lard-arse couldn't squeeze into the back of a 2 door car, so the hire car companies were making silly offers to get rid of the things. And we graciously helped them out - purley to foster international relations, of course!
Neither have they ever been termed 'First Officers'.
Not sure about the Nassau Beach, but certainly the Royal Hawaiian and Hawiian Hilton hotels were better than the Outrigger Malia. And the brand-new Ford Thunderbird coupes we were given made jolly nice hire cars*......
Enjoying your tent, truckiebloke?
*There was a reason for that. The average American lard-arse couldn't squeeze into the back of a 2 door car, so the hire car companies were making silly offers to get rid of the things. And we graciously helped them out - purley to foster international relations, of course!
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Beags
I see you are still using the old STC accounting instructions card to defend your mates who abuse the system.
You may or may not recall the incident in Italy about 13 years ago (ish) when a hire car, payed for by HM, crashed about 150 miles from the det base.
The driver - a pilot, and his passenger - a lady of the night, escaped with minor injuries
This incident made the press and infuriated the then CAS who wrote the most outstanding bollocking letter I have ever read - went on to mention things like:
"Obviously too much time for R&R"
"Need to tailor detachment to meet the exercise profile"
"Overborne with non-essential personnel"
"Blatant dis-regard of T&S rules"
He then included new guidelines which mentioned
50km radius for meals and R&R
Acceptable minimum standards of accommodation for operations, even if it meant doubling up
Re-assessment of allowances to meet expectations in theatre
All units in support are subject to the instructions of the published OpOrder
etc. etc.
He then concluded that this letter was authority to supplement or supercede STC instructions, if neccesary, to stay within the budget of a detachment.
This sounded like a death knell to us, because the Kipper Fleet, and most others, were doing it anyway
Years have passed Beags, and as you will see from another thread, the shineys still choose to ignore it - hence the VC10 shirtsleeve chappie got the bill for his crew staying downtown Miami during a Rum Punch det, well after the letter was published.
Sorry Beags - when I see a det of 300+, all ranks, living and doing in "achievable" conditions - desert or snow - I rankle when a Vickers Fun Bus, Tristar or C17 comes along and demands status treatment.
What Air Force are they in?
Still trying to love many and trust a few - but I will always paddle my own canoe
I see you are still using the old STC accounting instructions card to defend your mates who abuse the system.
You may or may not recall the incident in Italy about 13 years ago (ish) when a hire car, payed for by HM, crashed about 150 miles from the det base.
The driver - a pilot, and his passenger - a lady of the night, escaped with minor injuries
This incident made the press and infuriated the then CAS who wrote the most outstanding bollocking letter I have ever read - went on to mention things like:
"Obviously too much time for R&R"
"Need to tailor detachment to meet the exercise profile"
"Overborne with non-essential personnel"
"Blatant dis-regard of T&S rules"
He then included new guidelines which mentioned
50km radius for meals and R&R
Acceptable minimum standards of accommodation for operations, even if it meant doubling up
Re-assessment of allowances to meet expectations in theatre
All units in support are subject to the instructions of the published OpOrder
etc. etc.
He then concluded that this letter was authority to supplement or supercede STC instructions, if neccesary, to stay within the budget of a detachment.
This sounded like a death knell to us, because the Kipper Fleet, and most others, were doing it anyway
Years have passed Beags, and as you will see from another thread, the shineys still choose to ignore it - hence the VC10 shirtsleeve chappie got the bill for his crew staying downtown Miami during a Rum Punch det, well after the letter was published.
Sorry Beags - when I see a det of 300+, all ranks, living and doing in "achievable" conditions - desert or snow - I rankle when a Vickers Fun Bus, Tristar or C17 comes along and demands status treatment.
What Air Force are they in?
Still trying to love many and trust a few - but I will always paddle my own canoe
Hundreds of people suffer in squalor because one FJ idiot abuses the system?
That CAS was totally out of order - a vindictive backlash which was very probably unlawful.
Never had any problem with down-route accommodation - it was always sorted by RAFLOs and we just went where we were told. I've only ever pulled the 'This isn't good enough for us' card once - at some squalid tip in Barry which the so-called organisers of the St Athan air show had arranged for us. It was full of remand prisoners..... RAFLOs - or their agents - had reasonable memories; hence those who thanked them and did as asked normally got a pretty good deal; idiots like the thieving Nimrod rear crew in Lajes who caused an international incident got all they deserved from then on. Hence 10% Carlos always looked after the fighter and tanker crews staging through Lajes - and gave the worst accommodation to others. Tough. And the Presidential suite at the Nasce Agua was really quite nice - just thought you'd like to know.
But there are some idiots who actually whinge about nightstopping on base in Akrotiri... I see no snags - cheap Mess and a quick taxi to/from a typical "Who halloumi, who liver" kebab house. Much more fun than being in some boring hotel miles away at the wrong end of an MT coach trip!
Commensurate with home base entitlements. Nothing more, nothing less. But, as a Jaguar boss said about accommodation in Dhahran in GW1, "Any idiot can be uncomfortable"!
That CAS was totally out of order - a vindictive backlash which was very probably unlawful.
Never had any problem with down-route accommodation - it was always sorted by RAFLOs and we just went where we were told. I've only ever pulled the 'This isn't good enough for us' card once - at some squalid tip in Barry which the so-called organisers of the St Athan air show had arranged for us. It was full of remand prisoners..... RAFLOs - or their agents - had reasonable memories; hence those who thanked them and did as asked normally got a pretty good deal; idiots like the thieving Nimrod rear crew in Lajes who caused an international incident got all they deserved from then on. Hence 10% Carlos always looked after the fighter and tanker crews staging through Lajes - and gave the worst accommodation to others. Tough. And the Presidential suite at the Nasce Agua was really quite nice - just thought you'd like to know.
But there are some idiots who actually whinge about nightstopping on base in Akrotiri... I see no snags - cheap Mess and a quick taxi to/from a typical "Who halloumi, who liver" kebab house. Much more fun than being in some boring hotel miles away at the wrong end of an MT coach trip!
Commensurate with home base entitlements. Nothing more, nothing less. But, as a Jaguar boss said about accommodation in Dhahran in GW1, "Any idiot can be uncomfortable"!