When Will The Vc-10 Leave?
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Beags
The CAS was not vindictive, he knew what was going on and tried to give more guidance to his staff which was well within his remit - hence the visit to Rum Punch by Command Accounts.
More to the point, the poor old RAFLO only knew it was sorted when you told him is was sorted when you said where you were going - Rank? get it? Even Carlos at Larges knew that!
By the way, the incident with the Nimrod crew was in Keflavik - it was a drunk groundie who tried to steal a picture. I was there and spent 5 hours with the Security people through the night in a plea bargain to ensure we got airborne on time next day.
How come you did not respond to the particular points made by CAS in my last reply?
Touched a nerve?
The CAS was not vindictive, he knew what was going on and tried to give more guidance to his staff which was well within his remit - hence the visit to Rum Punch by Command Accounts.
More to the point, the poor old RAFLO only knew it was sorted when you told him is was sorted when you said where you were going - Rank? get it? Even Carlos at Larges knew that!
By the way, the incident with the Nimrod crew was in Keflavik - it was a drunk groundie who tried to steal a picture. I was there and spent 5 hours with the Security people through the night in a plea bargain to ensure we got airborne on time next day.
How come you did not respond to the particular points made by CAS in my last reply?
Touched a nerve?
Nixor ut Ledo
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I well remember an MOD staff visit to Hong Kong to explain the revised airmen aircrew pay structure (1988). Even though I had written the paper the RAF had not been included on the tri-service + treasury visit until I kicked up a fuss and got us included. By that time the hotel accommodation in Kowloon had all been taken up and we were told that we would have to go to the Mess at HMS Tamar.
Was I p*ssed off or what? I fought bloody hard to get hotac but to no avail. However, when I got to HK and saw the absolutely splendiferous accommodation at Tamar I was rapt. Every visit to HK thereafter I tried to get in to Tamar but with the drawdown it was impossible so had to put up with hotac in Kowloon!
Moral - not all turds smell of sh*t!
Was I p*ssed off or what? I fought bloody hard to get hotac but to no avail. However, when I got to HK and saw the absolutely splendiferous accommodation at Tamar I was rapt. Every visit to HK thereafter I tried to get in to Tamar but with the drawdown it was impossible so had to put up with hotac in Kowloon!
Moral - not all turds smell of sh*t!
Cunning Artificer
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I once watched a punch up in the Blue Spitoon between a VC10 captain and a 205 Sqn Shack skipper - they came to blows over accommodation. The VC10 chap was upset because his corporal 'Spoons' were given non-aircon rooms. 205 Sqn's standing SAR detachment were in similar accomodation, long term not overnight, and were sharing into the bargain. (rooms not beds). In those days VC10s were really shiny ("I say, are you a REAL Squadron Leader, or just a VC10 pilot) so I'm ever so pleased to see that, even though they are now clapped out relics of a bygone age, they can still earn extra privileges. 
Then there's all those sailor chappies who serve in 'hot-bunk' ships and boats. Nice work if you can get it...
Then there's all those sailor chappies who serve in 'hot-bunk' ships and boats. Nice work if you can get it...
Well there must have been more than one thief on the Nimrod force, buoy15, because I was at Lajes when the incident occurred and it caused a lot of trouble....
"Obviously too much time for R&R" - Who has 'R&R' down route? The schedules are driven by the crew fatigue regulations.
"Need to tailor detachment to meet the exercise profile" - Stating the bleeding obvious.....
"Overborne with non-essential personnel" - All seats in the VC10 are regulated, no-one goes on a 'jolly' at the tax payer's expense.
"Blatant dis-regard of T&S rules" - Unlike in the AT/AAR force which applies them correctly. In any case, they are rigorously audited.
"He then concluded that this letter was authority to supplement or supercede STC instructions, if neccesary, to stay within the budget of a detachment." - i.e., he gave carte blanche to the beancounters to screw everyone ever since. Fine for the hair shirts who revel in self-punishment, but hardly conducive to morale.
"More to the point, the poor old RAFLO only knew it was sorted when you told him is was sorted when you said where you were going - Rank? get it? Even Carlos at Larges knew that!" - Complete and utter bolleaux. Lajes, by the way.
"When I see a det of 300+, all ranks, living and doing in "achievable" conditions - desert or snow - I rankle when a Vickers Fun Bus, Tristar or C17 comes along and demands status treatment." - Green-eyed monster apart, how do you know what the 'Vickers Fun Bus, Tristar or C17' crew have been doing or what they're going to be doing next - and when? Accommodation rules are laid down for a very sound reason - flight safety and the avoidance of crew fatigue. Having once seen the asburd itinerary which some AEO captain of a Nimrod tried to inflict on the crew with a severe case of press-on-itis (after having already been u/s for hours at ASI, then u/s on take-off from DKR, returned to DKR, then tried to launch again for KSS after several hours fixing the snag.....), it's something which other forces clearly didn't use to bother about.
Certainly no-one should demand anything more than their normal entitlement. But if it's available, it's only reasonable that the crew should be allocated to it.
Not a problem for me these days, of course. If they need me to go somewhere, the customer either provides or picks up the tab for travel and subsistence; I just send in the invoice with receipts at the end of the month and it gets paid.
"Obviously too much time for R&R" - Who has 'R&R' down route? The schedules are driven by the crew fatigue regulations.
"Need to tailor detachment to meet the exercise profile" - Stating the bleeding obvious.....
"Overborne with non-essential personnel" - All seats in the VC10 are regulated, no-one goes on a 'jolly' at the tax payer's expense.
"Blatant dis-regard of T&S rules" - Unlike in the AT/AAR force which applies them correctly. In any case, they are rigorously audited.
"He then concluded that this letter was authority to supplement or supercede STC instructions, if neccesary, to stay within the budget of a detachment." - i.e., he gave carte blanche to the beancounters to screw everyone ever since. Fine for the hair shirts who revel in self-punishment, but hardly conducive to morale.
"More to the point, the poor old RAFLO only knew it was sorted when you told him is was sorted when you said where you were going - Rank? get it? Even Carlos at Larges knew that!" - Complete and utter bolleaux. Lajes, by the way.
"When I see a det of 300+, all ranks, living and doing in "achievable" conditions - desert or snow - I rankle when a Vickers Fun Bus, Tristar or C17 comes along and demands status treatment." - Green-eyed monster apart, how do you know what the 'Vickers Fun Bus, Tristar or C17' crew have been doing or what they're going to be doing next - and when? Accommodation rules are laid down for a very sound reason - flight safety and the avoidance of crew fatigue. Having once seen the asburd itinerary which some AEO captain of a Nimrod tried to inflict on the crew with a severe case of press-on-itis (after having already been u/s for hours at ASI, then u/s on take-off from DKR, returned to DKR, then tried to launch again for KSS after several hours fixing the snag.....), it's something which other forces clearly didn't use to bother about.
Certainly no-one should demand anything more than their normal entitlement. But if it's available, it's only reasonable that the crew should be allocated to it.
Not a problem for me these days, of course. If they need me to go somewhere, the customer either provides or picks up the tab for travel and subsistence; I just send in the invoice with receipts at the end of the month and it gets paid.
Last edited by BEagle; 27th Jan 2005 at 07:36.
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- "Overborne with non-essential personnel" - All seats in the VC10 are regulated, no-one goes on a 'jolly' at the tax payer's expense.-
Except, perhaps, the group of Military Tourists who arrived in Muharraq, on the pretext of scoping the FSTA but probably for some Christmas shopping in the Souk, only to find themselves caught up in Op Desert Fox.
Except, perhaps, the group of Military Tourists who arrived in Muharraq, on the pretext of scoping the FSTA but probably for some Christmas shopping in the Souk, only to find themselves caught up in Op Desert Fox.
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Good spin Beags - didn't think you would bite so hard
Your right - Lajes Field actually - LPPA
Mobile
Sqn deployment from ISK including the Staish and Sqn boss
Fg Off UKMAMS gets on the bus
"Right listen out! - none of you are allowed off the bus until I say so - when it's time to embark, you are to stay close together in single file and follow instructions from me - is that clear?"
This was then followed by a diatribe regarding DAC and batteries in personal stereos
When he was asked what the Compass Safe Distance was for a VC10, he said he would ask the Loadmaster - good answer eh?
I thought a better approach could have been
"Good morning gentlemen - we are running slightly behind having to load spares- could I please ask you to wait on the bus -I will keep you updated on the progress and we will try and get you away as soon as possible - any questions? Thank you"
Is that ok?
Your right - Lajes Field actually - LPPA
Mobile
Sqn deployment from ISK including the Staish and Sqn boss
Fg Off UKMAMS gets on the bus
"Right listen out! - none of you are allowed off the bus until I say so - when it's time to embark, you are to stay close together in single file and follow instructions from me - is that clear?"
This was then followed by a diatribe regarding DAC and batteries in personal stereos
When he was asked what the Compass Safe Distance was for a VC10, he said he would ask the Loadmaster - good answer eh?
I thought a better approach could have been
"Good morning gentlemen - we are running slightly behind having to load spares- could I please ask you to wait on the bus -I will keep you updated on the progress and we will try and get you away as soon as possible - any questions? Thank you"
Is that ok?
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Roland - well spotted - just checking
Remembered as the - Large Portuguese Landing Area
Wonder how many truckies ever "resided" in the Portuguese Mess? (The splendid white building overlooking the visiting ac apron)
Remembered as the - Large Portuguese Landing Area
Wonder how many truckies ever "resided" in the Portuguese Mess? (The splendid white building overlooking the visiting ac apron)
Pilot Officer PPRuNe
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As a matter-of-fact I have stayed there... passing through on a VC10!!
Having just got back from Bahrain... what a load of incorrect twaddle this thread is based on.
As has been said, why always aim for a common low standard of living when on det... we should all be working to improve things everywhere we have to go.
I have no doubt you have had good times in certain places truckiechap, and certainly would not have given them up cause some one else may have been sharing a room. Get over it...
Tonks
Having just got back from Bahrain... what a load of incorrect twaddle this thread is based on.
As has been said, why always aim for a common low standard of living when on det... we should all be working to improve things everywhere we have to go.
I have no doubt you have had good times in certain places truckiechap, and certainly would not have given them up cause some one else may have been sharing a room. Get over it...
Tonks
what really helps our (the Air Force's) case is people like bouy 15 with ill informed opinions and others with opinions many years out of date.
Come on guys, we're all better than this. We al have stories that sound good in the bar but turn out, on further investigation, to amount to very little.
There's a story about every Nimrod/VC10/C130/GR&/GR!?Jag etc and I feel that airing what you think may be dirty linen in public is a p*ss poor show.
Ther's alway someone better or worse off than you and to complain about it grips my sh*t. Live and let live or seek other challenges.
Come on guys, we're all better than this. We al have stories that sound good in the bar but turn out, on further investigation, to amount to very little.
There's a story about every Nimrod/VC10/C130/GR&/GR!?Jag etc and I feel that airing what you think may be dirty linen in public is a p*ss poor show.
Ther's alway someone better or worse off than you and to complain about it grips my sh*t. Live and let live or seek other challenges.
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How is it we always end up in these childish pi$$ing contests?
Every fleet has had a good det at times, every fleet (now more often than ever!) has had sh!te ones.
If the guys on the Mighty 10 are in Bahrain, it's because their jet has the legs to be there and still do the job.
As for your inference to Noise fees - The last figures that i saw showed the 3* to be causing far more bell-ringing than the VC10 (due to the Noise Reduction procedures used) at shiny airports around the world.
At the end of the day, as has already been said:
"any fool can be uncomfortable"! And we all work from the same rulebook. Who's the fool there?
Any fleet has miserable old duffers that complain at anything presented to them - just read most of Pprune's threads
We're all on the same side here, let's not forget that.
Uncle G
Every fleet has had a good det at times, every fleet (now more often than ever!) has had sh!te ones.
If the guys on the Mighty 10 are in Bahrain, it's because their jet has the legs to be there and still do the job.
As for your inference to Noise fees - The last figures that i saw showed the 3* to be causing far more bell-ringing than the VC10 (due to the Noise Reduction procedures used) at shiny airports around the world.
At the end of the day, as has already been said:
"any fool can be uncomfortable"! And we all work from the same rulebook. Who's the fool there?
Any fleet has miserable old duffers that complain at anything presented to them - just read most of Pprune's threads
We're all on the same side here, let's not forget that.
Uncle G
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Slept in the back of Albert in Kuwait
Slept on a camp bed in Masirah with Albert parked across the way
Plenty of folks currently sleeping on crap beds in Basra...........so perhaps you should adopt the "ill informed tw@t" mantle hyd3f@ckwit
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Slept on a camp bed in Masirah with Albert parked across the way Plenty of folks currently sleeping on crap beds in Basra...........so perhaps you should adopt the "ill informed tw@t" mantle hyd3f@ckwit all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced